113 replies to this topic

[Jaguar Prime]

Stefka Kerensky, on 09 August 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:

I hope it would temporary.
But it's not true that a good pilot can use it to snipe at 1000m. The opposite mech can change direction 2 times before the "energy projectile" arrives.
Simply casual hits now, because it's impossible to know where the enemy mech will go meanwhile the "blue turtle" (or snail, if you prefer) is in the air.

Against the bads it was nerfed for....... yeah, it will still be usable. You know the ones who stand still so they can shoot.....

[Dreddex]

Yet another set of nerfs that drive more people to lrm boat.

[Bishop Steiner]

Stefka Kerensky, on 09 August 2014 - 02:47 AM, said:

I just played 3 hours, and, believe it or not, every match was a brawl.
I like to brawl, but I wish to have more options.
A looooooooooooot of assault, obviously, too way easier to mount gauss for long distance or other weapons for brawling.

Imo, less options mean poor game experience.

most of the last 2 years, it was snipe or die.

Now, you still have strong Long Range options, Gauss, ER LArge Lasers (not as strong, but still strong) and LRMs. And yes, I even was sniping successfully with PPCs yesterday out to 8-900 yards, though I was much more conscious of my shot choice.

Brawling is finally VIABLE. And because it now takes a little more skill to snipe, the underhive will gravitate toward brawling as being "easier", and it is possible the meta will also, though I see little reason for upper end players to be terribly impacted at long range.

So while I feel the nerfs were indeed, handled poorly, as far as state of the game, and options, it's actually better off now, than it was just 2 months ago. (For combat style options.... lots of other issues, but those are for other threads)

[Monkey Lover]

Stefka Kerensky, on 09 August 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:

I hope it would temporary.
But it's not true that a good pilot can use it to snipe at 1000m. The opposite mech can change direction 2 times before the "energy projectile" arrives.
Simply casual hits now, because it's impossible to know where the enemy mech will go meanwhile the "blue turtle" (or snail, if you prefer) is in the air.

problem im running it now that its so slow hit reg is worse than ever. Even if I hit them it doesnt matter. They have to be standing still for it to register.

[STEF_]

Dreddex, on 09 August 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

Yet another set of nerfs that drive more people to lrm boat.

Yep.
And another set of nerf that drive more people to assault mechs (that can bear 17 tons of gauss+ammo).
I love medium mechs......

[Wolfways]

Naenlor, on 09 August 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

Ok I will give you that they don't poptart, but my point still stands that trying to shoot someone over a hill while they can't barely hit you, cause of the hill, isn't my playstyle, so i just lump those people together.

So you don't like to use cover.... You must die a lot.

[Wolfways]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 August 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

Brawling is finally VIABLE. And because it now takes a little more skill to snipe, the underhive will gravitate toward brawling as being "easier", and it is possible the meta will also, though I see little reason for upper end players to be terribly impacted at long range.

If the "underhive" gravitate toward brawling then more noobs will die to LRM's and there'll be more whining on the forums until LRM's actually take the flamers spot as worst weapon in the game.

Oh, and "brawling" has always been viable....except to noobs who let LRM's kill them

[jlawsl]

Some people say that skill will now be required to play a long ranged role with PPCs. I doubt it, the only people that are going to have a problem are the ones that don't macro and/or aimbot everything. That's why "top tier" players(if that means a thing in this game) aren't going to have an issue for long.

Having played computer games for a while, and being around the community, you notice that these "top end" players are like drug addicts. They find a game that they like, and will use any means possible to keep their score. Will they get annoyed that the PPC/Gauss has been desynced? Yes, now they have to figure out how to program the gauss to fire at the same time the PPC is going to impact-woohoo linked fire again. Now, that isn't all inclusive of all players with good ranking, some people are just good at a certain game or a few. But for a lot of gamers who's bragging rights in life are their KDRs and win/loss ratios, yeah.

So, who does it effect the most? The casual guys that may have wanted to try this "meta" gauss/ppc thing and see what its all about. Or the new guy that doesn't even know what the "meta" is, but was intuitive enough to notice the range similarities or projectile speed (dis)similarities. Or the lights that attempt to shoot at standoff distance instead of becoming the target of every pug in the match looking for that easy kill. Heavy and assault play, in this supposed competitive class, has had a never ending trickle down effect on the casual player(as if there are pro players in MWO).

If you were in a good amount of solo drop games before the patch, you wouldn't notice this "meta" too much and it wouldn't be a big issue. Why? Because the factor that causes players to rage in most pug matches-peoples total random and uncoordinated movement. That brick of a Direwolf trying to get to a good possition to core mechs at 1000 meters gets caught by the random gaggle of little lights and eaten up, or LRMed after the faster mechs around him noticed the rain clouds coming in. Was it something you would want to get hit by? Heck no. But was it a big issue? Not at all. Now when I hit up the group queue with some buddies and the matchmaker puts us against a 10-12 man against our gaggle of multiple groups, there was an issue. If you move between buildings, you hear the thunks of doom against your armor and get ppc splashes all over. Anything that could carry a gauss and ppc had a gauss and ppc. One of my buddies, which isn't foreign to online games at all, started playing a few months back and loves lights, but was getting frustrated at the fact that when we played together, he would be going 130-150kph in his spider and get an arm blown off from across the map while jinking and dodging and jump jetting at full speed. That is usually because if we play a two to three man group, we are put up against a larger group in the queue playing the "meta".

My conclusion is, to the OP, that the things that ruined it for little long range guys like a ppc kitfox or raven aren't the power of the weapons themselves, but the players. Especially the ones that will do anything to win, including using tools and programs that allow them to hit beyond a normal level of hand eye coordination. If it took real skill to use that combination, with a gauss round that still moves significantly faster then a ppc blob, then everyone wouldn't be using it at 1200 meters against moving targets and getting synced hits, doing massive pinpoint damage. It would be the top 5% or less, not every guy that knows how to load a good macro for his gauss.

[A X E L]

IraqiWalker, on 08 August 2014 - 11:41 PM, said:

Just a heads up. PPCs are no longer a sniping weapon, because they move at the speed of an AC 10 round if not slower.

AC10 is a perfectly fine sniping weapon. I'm constantly firing my AC20 out past 600m because I forget it's only good at short range. Just takes practice to compensate for projectile speed, but if this entire community will no longer use PPCs simply because they have to lead a target more, then maybe they don't deserve to be called mechwarriors.

Edited by A X E L, 09 August 2014 - 07:22 AM.

[Ultimax]

Aphoticus, on 08 August 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

Gauss

Yes Gauss on a Kit Fox is definitely an optimal choice.

Actually if you take the ECM arm, I don't think you can even get Gauss on one due to crit slots.


Try actually reading the OP next time.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 09 August 2014 - 09:20 AM.

[Davoke]

Naenlor, on 08 August 2014 - 11:40 PM, said:

eehh i guess i am too much of purist to play this game like all the min/maxxer's out there. That is also why I NEVER run machine guns. They should be worthless for mech v mech combat, yet i keep seeing heavies with nothing but MG's running around getting all the kills. Just breaks my heart.

In case you didn't know, in tabletop the MG's were just as viable as AC/2s, since you could get a lot of them, with plenty of ammo, for the same weight cost as an AC/2. And at 2 damage apiece they were pretty nice 0 heat infighters.

[Gas Guzzler]

A X E L, on 09 August 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

AC10 is a perfectly fine sniping weapon. I'm constantly firing my AC20 out past 600m because I forget it's only good at short range. Just takes practice to compensate for projectile speed, but if this entire community will no longer use PPCs simply because they have to lead a target more, then maybe they don't deserve to be called mechwarriors.

Lol sniping with AC 10? The 2-3 DMG at 800 meters sure is worth the shot! Anyways no one is complaining about leading targets. They are complaining that you can side step PPCs now. Like you could line up the perfect shot and all someone has to do is make a course correction before the PPC gets there and it misses. No skill involved just luck and guess work.

[Andi Nagasia]

ok ok i run a LCT-3M with 4-ML, Max XL Engine, Max Armor,
i get 1 shot everyonce in a wail, but its my fault for stoping,

Sniping is still viable, but you still have to act like a Sniper,
Shoot> Relocate> Shoot> Relocate> Reloacte> Shoot> ect.

its not easy to play a good sniper, just as its not easy to play a good Scout,
those who think you can just stay in one place and shoot continuesly, are just asking to get swarmed,

[Ultimax]

Andi Nagasia, on 09 August 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

ok ok i run a LCT-3M with 4-ML, Max XL Engine, Max Armor,
i get 1 shot everyonce in a wail, but its my fault for stoping,

Sniping is still viable, but you still have to act like a Sniper,
Shoot> Relocate> Shoot> Relocate> Reloacte> Shoot> ect.

its not easy to play a good sniper, just as its not easy to play a good Scout,
those who think you can just stay in one place and shoot continuesly, are just asking to get swarmed,

I would love to see you do that with a 2s beam laser.

Stop > Shoot for 2s > get hammered with return fire.

[Sandslice]

IraqiWalker, on 08 August 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

yeah, but Paul decided he was going to "fix" things. For the record, so far not a single one of his "fixes" for the last 2.5 years, actually worked, and almost all ended badly.

There's a hyper-cynical part of me that enjoys bizarro worlds, that thinks that maybe MWO would become the best game of all time if Paul simply stopped listening to anyone's feedback at all, except in the case of hard technical issues.

That part knows the objection will come that he already doesn't; but every attempted fix, and every playerbase decision to declare that attempt an utter failure... it thinks those may be feeding off each other, creating an apparent spiral of degeneration.

-----
Sorry, had to get that out somewhere.

But yeah. I mean, they got a feedback of "nerf PPC/gauss" - let's leave aside the cERLL problem for a bit. So they listen to feedback, create a couple different potential schemes that would nerf PPC/gauss (without creating a convergence system,) the testers chose one of them based on play...

...and now that it's implemented, at least half the feedback is now "omg you nerfed PPC pound sign FirePaul."

I can't imagine what sort of nuclear explosions (of hate, NOT of love) would happen on this forum should PGI ever decide to create a convergence system that all but kills pinpoint.

[Naenlor]

Wolfways, on 09 August 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

So you don't like to use cover.... You must die a lot.

There is a difference between using cover, like going from building to building, and sitting on a hill where only your guns show, and just sitting there shooting.

But please, be an egomaniac ******* on the internet, because that is original.

[IraqiWalker]

Naenlor, on 09 August 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

There is a difference between using cover, like going from building to building, and sitting on a hill where only your guns show, and just sitting there shooting.

But please, be an egomaniac ******* on the internet, because that is original.

Both are actually uses of cover.

I assume you meant a difference between using cover to move, and camping behind cover.

[Wolfways]

Naenlor, on 09 August 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

There is a difference between using cover, like going from building to building, and sitting on a hill where only your guns show, and just sitting there shooting.

But please, be an egomaniac ******* on the internet, because that is original.

Yeah, just like there's a difference between firing over cover and poptarting, but it's not your playstyle so it doesn't matter right? lol

Btw, do you usually act like a ****** when someone comments on your posts?

[Naenlor]

Davoke, on 09 August 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

In case you didn't know, in tabletop the MG's were just as viable as AC/2s, since you could get a lot of them, with plenty of ammo, for the same weight cost as an AC/2. And at 2 damage apiece they were pretty nice 0 heat infighters.

They are not just as viable. The reason AC/2's are viable, is because they have insane range. You put a few on, and you can shoot at people at god awful distances, which is an advantage in the tabletop. I have went up against tanks that were nothing by liked 6 AC/2's, and had to rethink my whole tactic against them, cause of the rain of death they could do. Luckily I have LRM 15's. so i can also rain death from above.

But trying to compare them is stupid. They do the least amount of damage, with no heat, and the shortest possible range. Hell even having the ammo in your mech will do more damage then the MG itself.

Wolfways, on 09 August 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

Yeah, just like there's a difference between firing over cover and poptarting, but it's not your playstyle so it doesn't matter right? lol

Btw, do you usually act like a ****** when someone comments on your posts?

I treat people the same way they treat me, like the the golden rule, but in reverse.

IraqiWalker, on 09 August 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

Both are actually uses of cover.

I assume you meant a difference between using cover to move, and camping behind cover.

yes that. Using buildings to "dodge and weave" through to reduce damage taken, and to protect against the constant rain of LRM's.

[TimePeriod]

My Stalker-M used to be a decent sniper, with 1 ERPPC and 1 PPC with a gauss rifle.

Now due to the decrease in PPC speeds I cannot sync my shots and deliver the PP FLD needed to be a threat to the current meta of PP FLD.

My Stalker-M, is now a brawler.
In a world of PP FLD.
With 60% of all maps loaded for PP-FLD.
Doing 60 km/h...
Without ECM..

Thanks PGI...
Screw you PGI...