113 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

TimePeriod, on 09 August 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

My Stalker-M used to be a decent sniper, with 1 ERPPC and 1 PPC with a gauss rifle.

Now due to the decrease in PPC speeds I cannot sync my shots and deliver the PP FLD needed to be a threat to the current meta of PP FLD.

My Stalker-M, is now a brawler.
In a world of PP FLD.
With 60% of all maps loaded for PP-FLD.
Doing 60 km/h...
Without ECM..

Thanks PGI...
Screw you PGI...

I would recommend using pulse lasers. Or 2 ERPPCs and using them on targets within 600 meters. Above that, you have problems.

As for short range brawling, you can do it rather well, even with our stable of maps.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 09 August 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

Yes Gauss on a Kit Fox is definitely an optimal choice.

Actually if you take the ECM arm, I don't think you can even get Gauss on one due to crit slots.


Try actually reading the OP next time.

well, far be it from me to point out, the Kitfox in canon packed a Gauss.... but also, I got no issue with less lights trying to be bloody snipers...... usually means I got a wasted light mech on the team.

[Bishop Steiner]

Naenlor, on 09 August 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

They are not just as viable. The reason AC/2's are viable, is because they have insane range. You put a few on, and you can shoot at people at god awful distances, which is an advantage in the tabletop. I have went up against tanks that were nothing by liked 6 AC/2's, and had to rethink my whole tactic against them, cause of the rain of death they could do. Luckily I have LRM 15's. so i can also rain death from above.

But trying to compare them is stupid. They do the least amount of damage, with no heat, and the shortest possible range. Hell even having the ammo in your mech will do more damage then the MG itself.



I treat people the same way they treat me, like the the golden rule, but in reverse.



yes that. Using buildings to "dodge and weave" through to reduce damage taken, and to protect against the constant rain of LRM's.

ac2 in TT were one of the worst weapons in the game. Period. Even against Lights, they were more a nuisance than a threat.

MGs on the other hand? For that 6 tons you spent on an ac2 to plink for a whopping 2 damage (and the fact that you are most liking missing 60% of your shots at long range, or more) you are packing 12 MGs. For 2 damage each, so 24 damage, for ZERO heat. Yes you have to get close. Whoopty do. You pack your mech with an AC2, I'll bring 12 MGs, and we'll see if you did enough damage to stop me before I close and unleash 12x the damage back on you.

[TimePeriod]

IraqiWalker, on 09 August 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

I would recommend using pulse lasers. Or 2 ERPPCs and using them on targets within 600 meters. Above that, you have problems.

As for short range brawling, you can do it rather well, even with our stable of maps.

Nope, LPL is not an option. Way too much heat, way too much weight and not enough benefit.
ERPPCS cannot be synched with the gauss rifle thus is not an option. PPFLD is the norm, rule and executioner.

[Naenlor]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 August 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

ac2 in TT were one of the worst weapons in the game. Period. Even against Lights, they were more a nuisance than a threat.

MGs on the other hand? For that 6 tons you spent on an ac2 to plink for a whopping 2 damage (and the fact that you are most liking missing 60% of your shots at long range, or more) you are packing 12 MGs. For 2 damage each, so 24 damage, for ZERO heat. Yes you have to get close. Whoopty do. You pack your mech with an AC2, I'll bring 12 MGs, and we'll see if you did enough damage to stop me before I close and unleash 12x the damage back on you.

First of all, I wouldn't even let you get close to me, and second, the AC/2 is not suppose to be a stand-alone weapon, so stop acting all surperior. All I got to do is make sure there is a space or two between you and me, and you can't hit the wide-side of a barn with them.

As I said, Already went over the numbers, and they are pointless in the TT. The next downtime (which is actually next week.) They are getting ripped out of my Crusader and the ******* horrible ammo bomb that you need with them for heatsinks, so i can shove more LRM's and SRM's down my enemies' throat.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 August 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

well, far be it from me to point out, the Kitfox in canon packed a Gauss.... but also, I got no issue with less lights trying to be bloody snipers...... usually means I got a wasted light mech on the team.

You can't get Gauss onto the Kit Fox without giving up ECM, and you get a total of 2.5 tons of ammo unless you feel like shaving off a half ton of armor.

Giving up ECM for Gauss is a bad build choice.

ECM is the single most important thing the Kit Fox brings, without it the Kit Fox is irrelevant - it's prey to pretty much everything, including most faster light mechs.

There aren't that many other roles for the Kit Fox.

Can it to brawl? With 3 or 4 energy hardpoints at a speed pretty much anyone not falling of their chair drunk can hit it?

It's bigger than most IS lights, it's slower, and it's not any better armored.
Clan XL is irrelevant, when everyone targets light mech legs.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 09 August 2014 - 01:18 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Naenlor, on 09 August 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

First of all, I wouldn't even let you get close to me, and second, the AC/2 is not suppose to be a stand-alone weapon, so stop acting all surperior. All I got to do is make sure there is a space or two between you and me, and you can't hit the wide-side of a barn with them.

As I said, Already went over the numbers, and they are pointless in the TT. The next downtime (which is actually next week.) They are getting ripped out of my Crusader and the ******* horrible ammo bomb that you need with them for heatsinks, so i can shove more LRM's and SRM's down my enemies' throat.

and MGs are a stand alone? Lolz. It's pretty easy to turn your argument against you. Also, I can spray and pray all week...no heat, plenty of ammo. if even 1/3 hit, that's 4 times the damage of the ac2.

I've been playing and playing tournaments, for CBT since it was just BT, back in the late 80s. Go back to reveling in your ignorance. GG, close.

Ultimatum X, on 09 August 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

You can't get Gauss onto the Kit Fox without giving up ECM, and you get a total of 2.5 tons of ammo unless you feel like shaving off a half ton of armor.

Giving up ECM for Gauss is a bad build choice.

ECM is the single most important thing the Kit Fox brings, without it the Kit Fox is irrelevant - it's prey to pretty much everything, including most faster light mechs.

There aren't that many other roles for the Kit Fox.

Can it to brawl? With 3 or 4 energy hardpoints at a speed pretty much anyone not falling of their chair drunk can hit it?

It's bigger than most IS lights, it's slower, and it's not any better armored.
Clan XL is irrelevant, when everyone targets light mech legs.

Meh, most useful Kitfoxes pack AMS, ECM and a NARC. Yup, no glory, it's a teamwork mech. You wanna do other things, drive a different chassis.

[TimePeriod]

I'm with our glorious Bishop on this one
(as much as I hate to admit it)

Kit-Fox is a scout/teamwork 'Mech as of now. I cannot remember seeing it as other then another clan 'Mech.

[Naenlor]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 August 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

and MGs are a stand alone? Lolz. It's pretty easy to turn your argument against you. Also, I can spray and pray all week...no heat, plenty of ammo. if even 1/3 hit, that's 4 times the damage of the ac2.

I've been playing and playing tournaments, for CBT since it was just BT, back in the late 80s. Go back to reveling in your ignorance. GG, close.

And another arrogant douchebag is on the internet. You bring that 12 MG against ANY mech, even garrison mechs, and you will lose buddy, but do stay on top of what you believe to be a white horse (which is actually just a donkey) all you want, you will lose, every single match against me with it.

[Sandpit]

First off, PGI does NOT hate snipers

PGI is just either inept, incompetent, stubborn, arrogant, or all of the above because their nerfs (the latest PPC nerf in particular) are based off of complaints regarding TTK, FLD, and PPD, but every single one of their attempts to fix this for the past 3 years has involved nerfing an individual weapon.

Yet, PGI and their fanclub, keep towing the company line of "We're getting there" instead of acknowledging that their ideas haven't, don't, and won't work because they do not address the underlying issue of PPD and FLD which is what leads directly to high damage pinpoint alphas.

So instead of listening to anyone with any ideas regarding this that don't involve nerfing a weapon, they continue nerfing and buffing just like they have for 3 years

Insanity = attempting the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

[Mcgral18]

Naenlor, on 09 August 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

And another arrogant douchebag is on the internet. You bring that 12 MG against ANY mech, even garrison mechs, and you will lose buddy, but do stay on top of what you believe to be a white horse (which is actually just a donkey) all you want, you will lose, every single match against me with it.

Why don't you two bring it to MegaMek and test it out. 2 AC2s vs 24 MGs? I hope you get a lucky crit.

[Bishop Steiner]

Naenlor, on 09 August 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

Looks like the cat has your tongue. What ya getting for running your mouth about the most worthless weapon in the game.

Nope, no point arguing with someone who ignores most of his own posts, cherry picks from others, etc. You can bask in your own ignorance all you like, I simply have better things to do than keep talking to an idiot.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 August 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

and MGs are a stand alone? Lolz. It's pretty easy to turn your argument against you. Also, I can spray and pray all week...no heat, plenty of ammo. if even 1/3 hit, that's 4 times the damage of the ac2.

I've been playing and playing tournaments, for CBT since it was just BT, back in the late 80s. Go back to reveling in your ignorance. GG, close.


Meh, most useful Kitfoxes pack AMS, ECM and a NARC. Yup, no glory, it's a teamwork mech. You wanna do other things, drive a different chassis.

I agree it's a teamwork mech, but teamwork for me includes doing at least 350 to 500 damage if I'm in a Kit Fox (I'm not a great light pilot).

If the only thing you do is bring ECM and hump ankles, You could just be in one of the better IS lights, or a DDC.

[Naenlor]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 August 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Nope, no point arguing with someone who ignores most of his own posts, cherry picks from others, etc. You can bask in your own ignorance all you like, I simply have better things to do than keep talking to an idiot.

Cherry pick? that all you have been doing this whole time. but just as I said before, and you "cherry picked" it out, I am done with you. You bring no real conversation to the table. Just go back to your youtube comments buddy.

Edited by Naenlor, 09 August 2014 - 01:35 PM.

[Rando Slim]

PGI is responding to the lowest/loudest common denomionator, or perhaps the largest slice of the paying playerbase, maybe both. Stark reality is that the meta abusers ruined it for everyone. As soon as it became the sort of Nash Dominant Strategy to win ever game it was over. But don't fret, probably every single multiplayer game ever made has issues like that if it involves PvP gameplay. Humans ruin everything from each other, the world around themselves, and apparently even the games they play. The inner monkey triumphs again it would seem. Once you understand (you already probably do) the sociobiological reasons behind why the world sucks and humans are ********, you will also know why this game will never be "fixed" and in general why nothing is ever perfect.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 09 August 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Why don't you two bring it to MegaMek and test it out. 2 AC2s vs 24 MGs? I hope you get a lucky crit.

Tell ya what----we allotting 14 tons per mech? Thats 2 ac2s with a ton of ammo each? So I can strap on a nice PPC, etc?

Aside from the pàrt ******** doesn't grasp, (namely, not advocating packing 12 MGs, pointing out in most cases 12 MG would be more useful than 1 ac2, but rocket scientist can't get past his own epeen to comprehend), It would be pretty laughable to watch.

I mean there might just be a reason that MGs and Medium Lasers were the two most common weapons in all Solaris Tournament events. I'd like to see him take 30-35 tons, tech 2, build his best 2 AC2 mech and demonstrate how superior it is in TT.

[Sandpit]

Scrotacus 42, on 09 August 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

PGI is responding to the lowest common denomionator,

Biggest paying part of the population has always been the founders (no I'm not tooting their horns) based on the clan sale numbers and founders numbers. Founders raised more money with a smaller population sight unseen than clan packs did. That should really say something. The problem is most of them are closing up their wallets because of PGI's decisions over the last year or so.

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 August 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

Tell ya what----we allotting 14 tons per mech? Thats 2 ac2s with a ton of ammo each? So I can strap on a nice PPC, etc?

Aside from the pàrt ******** doesn't grasp, (namely, not advocating packing 12 MGs, pointing out in most cases 12 MG would be more useful than 1 ac2, but rocket scientist can't get past his own epeen to comprehend), It would be pretty laughable to watch.

I mean there might just be a reason that MGs and Medium Lasers were the two most common weapons in all Solaris Tournament events. I'd like to see him take 30-35 tons, tech 2, build his best 2 AC2 mech and demonstrate how superior it is in TT.

Don't they have a nasty min range as well?


I guess he could rear mount them and just try to outrun you all match.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 09 August 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

Don't they have a nasty min range as well?


I guess he could rear mount them and just try to outrun you all match.

indeed. It might almost work too. Funny thing, is, basically, the only place a mech won't be fast enough to close, is against Assaults, where ac2s and MGs both, are largely useless in standard battlemaps. But even then, having a pair of MG would be a lot more useful than an AC2, for no heat added damage, anti infantry, etc. AC2 inferior to every other weapon in every other scenario, because only a fast VTOL will be able to stay outside of range of other units with it, and still be able to fire back....and to stay at that range means the hit probability is next to nil.

For the weight of an ac2, almost anyone would be better off with using that 7 tons for ANY other weapon combo from pure MG to MG/Laser mix, etc... to just slapping on a PPC.

[Hillslam]

PGI hates snipers because they rightly recognize them as the amoral degenerate cowardly lowlife scum that they are.

If you do nothing but snipe you do nothing but irritate people (the enemy AND your team), you don't contribute to the win, and you are a bad person. All snipers should be rapped on the knuckles.

Unless they are a hot sniper chick. In which case they should be spanked. Preferrably while wearing something sexy. Meet me at my house tonight with a bottle of single malt scotch and some scented body oils. Naughty girl snipers...

wait what were we talking about?