113 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

Psikez, on 10 August 2014 - 06:31 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ee3d7d214fffc5b

Pilot this instead

That's .... Not really any better.

[Sandpit]

ok I admit it
i was wrong

https://twitter.com/...535179246268416

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Sandpit, on 10 August 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

ok I admit it
i was wrong

https://twitter.com/...535179246268416

Russ comes to his senses... Sandpit admits he's wrong... the next hero mech will be named Rapture !!!!

Edited by lockwoodx, 10 August 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[Sandpit]

lockwoodx, on 10 August 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

Russ comes to his senses... Sandpit admits he's wrong... the next hero mech will be named Rapture !!!!

I admit I was wrong when I said PGI doesn't hate snipers

[IraqiWalker]

Sandpit, on 10 August 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

ok I admit it
i was wrong

https://twitter.com/...535179246268416

Wow, really now? What's the point of ERPPCs and Gauss then? Gauss is meant to strike at beyond a kilometer (it has a range of 1980 ffs)

[Sandpit]

IraqiWalker, on 10 August 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

Wow, really now? What's the point of ERPPCs and Gauss then? Gauss is meant to strike at beyond a kilometer (it has a range of 1980 ffs)

PGI apparently disagrees

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Sandpit, on 10 August 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

I admit I was wrong when I said PGI doesn't hate snipers

Of course they don't. A company can't hate anything because that means they have the potential to hate money.

[Sandpit]

lockwoodx, on 10 August 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Of course they don't. A company can't hate anything because that means they have the potential to hate money.

sure thing

that's why MWO constantly gets "balanced" according to whatever "target audience" PGI is trying support milk at the time

[Jman5]

Quote

Why Does Pgi Hate Snipers?

I don't think PGI hates snipers, the problem is that the sniper role lends itself to being overpowered by nature.

When you get in close to fight, several problems emerge.

1. Harder if not impossible to avoid damage. You're almost guaranteed to take shots and get injured. Good players can mitigate this to an extent with torso twisting and quick kills, but damage is damage.

2. Harder to retreat. When you get into a brawl it can be pretty hard to pull out of the fight if you overestimated their strength, or you take a bad hit. If they're faster than you, forget about it.

Sniping on the other hand has the benefit of distance between you and your targets.

1. Much easier to avoid damage. You either straight up outrange your opponents, or you have the benefit of ducking back out of combat more easily. The distance also allows you to dodge projectile and missiles much easier.

2. Easy to retreat. When you find that the return fire is too much, it's very easy to just pull back and behind cover. And then regroup with your team. You don't have to commit to a do or die fight if you don't want to.

This is why it's crucial to make brawling weapons really dangerous. Because in order to get within range to use those brawling weapons, you need to take on a high amount of risk to yourself. If you make brawling and sniping weapons even, you would be weakening yourself by choosing the brawling weapon. Particularly if the sniping weapon works the same at close ranges.

Never forget that even if your ER LL is weaker than a medium laser. If you stay out of its range, than you are infinitely stronger than the ML boat. That's a huge advantage.

[Sandpit]

Jman5, on 10 August 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

This is why it's crucial to make brawling weapons really dangerous.

agreed 100%
that's not accomplished by nerfing every other weapon

[IraqiWalker]

Sandpit, on 10 August 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

agreed 100%
that's not accomplished by nerfing every other weapon

Russ' logic on this matter
https://twitter.com/...591670054338560

[Jman5]

IraqiWalker, on 10 August 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

Russ' logic on this matter
https://twitter.com/...591670054338560

Personally, I would just double all mech internal hitpoints across the board. It's a simple way to increase time to kill.

[Koniving]

PGI loves snipers.
It's the player base that hates them.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Sandpit, on 10 August 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

sure thing

that's why MWO constantly gets "balanced" according to whatever "target audience" PGI is trying support milk at the time

The blame is still left upon the customers, not shareholders. Welcome to business 101 kid.

[Sandpit]

like I told Russ on twitter
"People" didn't ask for 600m combat
"People" said that's where combat usually winds up due to map design, weapons, and game design

See how that has a different meaning?
smh
#maybenotignoredjustclueless

[Koniving]

IraqiWalker, on 10 August 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

Russ' logic on this matter
https://twitter.com/...591670054338560

Russ's logic is solid if it's in line with what most players want in the idea of buffs (like super SRMs...oh wait we have that already).

However, here's a simple one.
Bring IS "SL" and "ML" back to canon heat values.

Battletech canon:
IS SL: 1 heat, 3 damage. (90 meter range)
IS ML: 3 heat, 5 damage. (270 meter range)
Comparison:
Clan ER SL: 2 heat, 5 damage. (180 meter range)
Clan ER ML: 5 heat, 7 damage. (450 meter range)

MWO: (Current).
IS SL: 2 heat, 3 damage. (100 meter range)
IS ML: 4 heat, 5 damage. (270 meter range)
Comparison:
Clan ER SL: 2 heat, 4 damage. (200 meter range)
Clan ER ML: 5 heat, 7 damage. (450 meter range)

Obviously something isn't quite right.
But it's be perfectly fine if we restored what was supposed to be in this case. After all, the large class lasers are a LOT colder than they are supposed to be. IS Large Laser? Supposed to be 8 heat and 8 damage. IS and Clan LPL? 10 heat and 9 damage IS, 10 damage Clan. IS and Clan ER Large Laser? 12 heat and 8 damage IS, 10 damage Clan.

So why are we extending the Clan ER LL beam time? Wouldn't it simply be easier to restore the canon values and undo the super weapon that PGI has made it into? Even at 9 heat it's a powerful weapon, the extra beam time isn't necessary if it was as hot as it was meant to be, and then there's the 11.25 damage compared to 10 damage that it's supposed to be at.

At 1.5 seconds and the canon 10 damage, it'd be .1 damage per 0.15 seconds.
In comparison IS ER LL's current damage is 0.09 damage per 0.1 second (so for every 0.15 seconds it'd be 0.12 damage, superior). That's for the IS 9 damage ER LL. Though technically it's supposed to be 8 damage.
At 8 damage, the IS ER LL would deal 0.08 damage per 0.1 second of beam time (for 1 second), which in 0.15 seconds to compare to the Clan version is doing 0.1067, which is still slightly superior to the Clan ER LL.

Even at canon values its easy to make the IS weapons slightly better and the Clan weapons more DPS-like, and achieve it better than PGI has thus far.

Edited by Koniving, 10 August 2014 - 02:10 PM.

[Wolfways]

Brawling weapon means short ranged weapons right?

Like small/medium lasers, S/SRM's - light and small enough to fit them in groups. Or the AC20, the most powerful weapon in the game.

I really don't see a problem.

[Sandpit]

[color=#292F33]yes we had many of the best players in the game and these are people that live by these weapons and they saw the need[/color]

[color=#292F33]actually, THAT'S Russ' methodology according to his tweets today[/color]

[IraqiWalker]

Wolfways, on 10 August 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

Brawling weapon means short ranged weapons right?

Like small/medium lasers, S/SRM's - light and small enough to fit them in groups. Or the AC20, the most powerful weapon in the game.

I really don't see a problem.

You forgot pulse lasers in the case of the IS arsenal.

[Wolfways]

IraqiWalker, on 10 August 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

You forgot pulse lasers in the case of the IS arsenal.

Oh yeah, although pulse weapons are generally bad in MWO imo.