89 replies to this topic

[Project_Mercy]

Voss Korgan, on 22 June 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

I suppose it could be that me and those I game with have play styles which rarely bring us in range to melee, opting for taking tactical advantage of the map and cover than just busting face to face.

Yeah, I think it's play styles. I still take advantage of cover, it's just I use it as a method for advance.

But, from playing years and years (and years!) of tourneys at various gaming conventions (Like GenCon/Origins/etc), I've seen a large use of physicals. I do think it's reduced some as you get into the higher tech-level eras, as the physical damage didn't scale with the armor/weapons (outside of mechs rigged specifically for physicals), so you end up sacrificing a lot to do it. But if you're out of ammo, or your weapon got blown off, or that other mech closed in on you and you're stuck with min-range restricted weapons, sometimes it's best to just grab a tree and go to town.

[Scabrous]

Voss Korgan, on 22 June 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

I suppose it could be that me and those I game with have play styles which rarely bring us in range to melee, opting for taking tactical advantage of the map and cover than just busting face to face.

Like I said, dirty clanner. Maps provide tactical advantage for melee too.



Kick him in the head from the high ground!

[Voss Korgan]

Scabrous, on 22 June 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

Like I said, dirty clanner. Maps provide tactical advantage for melee too.



Kick him in the head from the high ground!

Point taken.

[Firelizard]

Or as they say in the vernacular: Boot to the head!

[Suskis]

melee combat is a key point in many mechs design. a kick from an Atlas hits as hard as its AC/20 (and you can bet EVERY Atlas will try to melee you sooner or later, in tabletop game).
flawed mech designs have short range weapons in legs/arms, so that they can't melee in the same round they have fired (example of this is the Crusader). fine mech designs keep heats skinks in legs (for extra cooling in water partial cover) and long range weapons in arms, so that they can fully engage the enemy with both weapons and punches/kicks (a Warhammer is a perfect example of this smart weapon placement).
Removing melee combat is a serious advantage for Clans (that already have an enormous advantage over IS technology)

[Blaze32]

what show is that from?
nice pic

[Alexander Diaz]

Suskis, on 22 June 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

melee combat is a key point in many mechs design. a kick from an Atlas hits as hard as its AC/20 (and you can bet EVERY Atlas will try to melee you sooner or later, in tabletop game).
flawed mech designs have short range weapons in legs/arms, so that they can't melee in the same round they have fired (example of this is the Crusader). fine mech designs keep heats skinks in legs (for extra cooling in water partial cover) and long range weapons in arms, so that they can fully engage the enemy with both weapons and punches/kicks (a Warhammer is a perfect example of this smart weapon placement).
Removing melee combat is a serious advantage for Clans (that already have an enormous advantage over IS technology)

Agreed. Though I think the "flaws" are intentional. Anyone with access to a "mech lab" or has done the pen'n'paper calculations themselves, has most likely created "optimized" chassis. While these are fun, they limit diversity as that, why wouldn't every medium/light mech cart around 10 med lasers with double heatsinks in their feet and 5 jump jets in their torso? Or some such thing.

Usually the TROs include some kind of fluff on why a mech has a compromised design of some sort.

Arm weapons do actually increase the arc range of weapon systems (and discourage fisty combat) but I'm thinking, based off of the videos I've seen, that it's not as much as it is in table top. Looks more like the ability to fire at two different targets then a way to get a 270deg shot off.

[Diosces]

Collison damage could be fun!

[FLAKPANZER]

Haakon Valravn, on 21 June 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

You don't spend ten million C-bills on a war machine and then arm it with an axe or a sword with the intention of sending it to smash an enemy. That would be like fitting the ram from a trireme to a Sea Wolf-class submarine.

Nice analogy.

[8Ball-]

Famine52, on 21 June 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

This is one of the most rediculous things of the battletech universe.

I know as soon as melee combat is/if introduced I will be out the door.

With a game centered around "realism" in the future setting, melee combat would be just absolutely rediculous. I am strongly against this.

LOL, realism? You gotta be kidding. Say, are you the guy that jumped up and yelled FAKE when the CG Jabba appeared in the Star Wars movie?

[Kyzar Kon]

It's crucial that this comes before clan crap! I don't want to see an clannyfanny's Madcat if I can't kick his teeth in.

(At least beat the Zel right out of him)

[Pvt Dancer]

DarkTreader, on 21 June 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

Psh, what're you talking about? I see a Marauder bitchslapping a Wasp (or Valkyrie?), and some kind of strange half-aborted UrbanMech in the background trying to SHOOP DA WHOOP.

Marauder, Stinger (can tell by the head) amd Ostscout. They had all of the main vehicles from Robotech in the 3025TRO, but they never did the suits (male and female) for some odd reason. The Mackie was added in a different TRO.

Famine52, on 21 June 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

This is one of the most rediculous things of the battletech universe.

I know as soon as melee combat is/if introduced I will be out the door.

With a game centered around "realism" in the future setting, melee combat would be just absolutely rediculous. I am strongly against this.

You do know that they have collision damage (charging) and DFA, right? Nothing more realistic that having your 3 stroy tall walking suit plow through a hail of laser fire to end up toe to toe with your opponent and rub chests. Oh yeah... I bet some oil might leak out and make everything slippery. Those armored plates might spark and start alittle fire between you and your opponent making things hot. All it has to be is a couple of Centurions to top it off...

Thank you for setting me straight on your version of 'realism'. I will be over in the other version where punching and kicking is going on instead.

Devs have stated there will be melee in the game at some point, they just have 50 more mechs to do and this pesky beta thing going on. So keep your walking shoes dusted off and have them ready, or better yet play a mech that avoids melee combat! Also, who knows, maybe you will like the idea of doing something besides ramming your opponent Greek Phalanx style.

Edited by Pvt Dancer, 22 June 2012 - 11:08 AM.

[Scabrous]

Actually a submarine with a ram would be ******* amazing. If they add aerospace I hope that they come with lances so they can get in on the sweet justice foot/fist action.

[Basilisk51]

I really hope not, otherwise i can see people putting the fastest engine possible and simply running around hitting people. I think it would completely destroy all the mechanics

[HiredGun]

I want to know when my atlas will be able to rip the arm off of a enemy commando and beat him to death with it.

[Cerlin]

How do people use the words "Realism" and "battletech" in the same sentience. It is scifi people!

Because Melee is such a big part of the fiction, and the original game, I would like to see it eventually. At the very least punches for mechs with hands (giving humanoid IS mechs an advantage.) When you read the books about a heavy or assault flailing around in a light lance and crushing anyone too slow to run is just amazing. I dont see why it should be in just because some people think its too manga mecha. This all came from mecha, sorry to burst your bubble.

Mecha and Battlemech has melee. I would like to see it eventually. (Even in Limited forums.)

Melee was one of the only arenas where the Inner Sphere mechs could match or beat the clan mechs at as well.

Edited by Cerlin, 22 June 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[Scabrous]

I think its really important you be able to Punch Madcat. Bro there above me being all inner sphere is better at melee is completely true. Also it would be awesome to be able to beat mechs with severed limbs (bonus points for an Atlas beating a mech to scrap with its own other arm) or tree trunks or something. Or you know, just add an Axeman and roll around chopping heads.

[Kyzar Kon]

I just remember In MW4 ramming other mechs to unload my LBX10's Atlas boat. If you look how close mechs get in MWO, one could easliy imagine the next step. I just think implementing it would be the real hurdle. The devs want it but it's not on thier priority. Personally I can pass on kicking, but metal mits and hatchets is where its at.

Basilisk51, on 22 June 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

I really hope not, otherwise i can see people putting the fastest engine possible and simply running around hitting people. I think it would completely destroy all the mechanics

Hatchetman and Axeman are in the 350 TRO. Every mech revealed has been in it. Obvioulsy you're unfamiliar that weight classes have speed restrictions. Assaults can only manage 86 kph with almost no armor and firepower. It would be a LAMFO to see your face when the Charger is revealed!

[Alexander Diaz]

Basilisk51, on 22 June 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

I really hope not, otherwise i can see people putting the fastest engine possible and simply running around hitting people. I think it would completely destroy all the mechanics

From what I understand, we're going to have to pay to fix our mechs so, this might be cost prohibitive. Or maybe not the most exciting tactic to deploy for you wallet, at least, not as a staple strategy.

[Famine52]

Wraeththix Constantine, on 22 June 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

Generally at the point of physicals it's more, "Giant multi-ton no-more-laser-having overheated-fusion-engine beat-up humanoid combat platform."



Uh, if you're expecting realism, then Battletech/Mechwarrior may not be the place for you. There's wholes the size of houses in Battletech physics. It's worse than Star Trek physics.

In regards to physicals, nobody brings a knife to a gun fight, but if your gun is unusable, and your side-arm is unusable, and there's any angry fellow coming at you, what are you going to do? Maybe you can kindly explain to the fellow "Due to the No-Legging Samarkand Convention, in article 3.4 section 7.1.4a I officially request that you leave me alone, because punching and kicking are silly and I just want to go get a Slushie."

I've been playing Mechwarrior since MW2. It's been believable enough to keep me staying. One of the pillars of the Mechwarrior franchise is the realism bud. You get the cockpit view. You get the heat overload. It's the believable realism that keeps all of us here playing it. It may not be feasible, or even wise to do in the future. But that doesn't stretch it as a fantasy land arcade game.

The difference is - were in Mechwarriors. You think when tanks run out of Sabot or HE rounds they try and ram the enemy? Come on man, think. You back off and rearm at a Foward operating base, undercover of your lance.

Punching has been leftout of all the mech games. Punching is not feasible with the majority of mech designs or B, it looks absolutely rediculous. (Picture a MadCat throwing it down with a strider - yeah, thats not the "Mechwarrior" game I want to play, more laughable then believable).

Whats in the lore (if it even is) does not translate to making it a good game feature. Oh, yeah - I'm willing to bet you'll see matches with only fists. Lots of servers touting atlas MMA fights. No thanks.