219 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior849305]

Goose, on 10 August 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

And you, Sir, is what is wrong with this game …

Whatever you say, Sir.
I can't see any problem to relay info about my target to my teammates whilst those teammates share incoming damage with me

[Sandpit]

DuoAngel, on 10 August 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Whatever you say, Sir.
I can't see any problem to relay info about my target to my teammates whilst those teammates share incoming damage with me

no, you wouldn't I suppose, everyone who's actually playing on a team does though.

OP, do you see what I was talking about now?

[EyesBurn]

Lefty Lucy, on 10 August 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

You hear it all too frequently in game.

"Hold locks."

"LRM boat here, press R to target."

I love piloting lrm boats but those "requests' are even going on my nerves,i really think the one who types that in a match is treating me like an idiot.
I usually just type"lrm boat here"or something funny,like "awesome lrm boat here" when i pilot Awesome 8R or "6 lrm5 trollcat here "(they actually hate me when i type that ... ),just to let people know and maybe help me if i get attacked by a light or something like that and to let them know i will support them.And most of my lrm boats are capable of getting its own targets by using tag and they do get a lot of damage because i try to stay with team and get locks on my own.Of course i cant go first in a push but i try to stay close.

[Screech]

Nothing makes brawling easier then getting LRM support. Nothing gets you killed faster brawling then expecting LRM support and finding it lacking.

The two things I have found out about LRM support in PuGs:

1) Give them time to get set up. Spotting too early is a waste of time and armor. If you can try to figure out where they are going to be ahead of time.

2) Not all LRM support is the same. There is a huge difference between your LRM support being 1km away from you or 300m. There is even a bigger difference between a LRM pilot that realizes that and one that doesn't. The quicker you can determine what you have the better off you will be.

[9thDeathscream]

Problem is with bad lrm pilots is they hang back too far. So when they get a lock and launch a salvo the missiles only travel half way to the enemy mech before loosing the lock.

When i pilot my lrm boat i hang right at the back of the main assault force. With the Decay module at least most of the lrms hit, also the laser are actually helpfull.

Bad lrm boat pilots are their own worse enemy! Then they have the hide to blame it on their team.

[Lefty Lucy]

Sandpit, on 10 August 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

no, you wouldn't I suppose, everyone who's actually playing on a team does though.

OP, do you see what I was talking about now?

Two people who I don't particularly agree with, versus

EyesBurn, on 10 August 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

I love piloting lrm boats but those "requests' are even going on my nerves,i really think the one who types that in a match is treating me like an idiot.
I usually just type"lrm boat here"or something funny,like "awesome lrm boat here" when i pilot Awesome 8R or "6 lrm5 trollcat here "(they actually hate me when i type that ... ),just to let people know and maybe help me if i get attacked by a light or something like that and to let them know i will support them.And most of my lrm boats are capable of getting its own targets by using tag and they do get a lot of damage because i try to stay with team and get locks on my own.Of course i cant go first in a push but i try to stay close.

Screech, on 10 August 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

Nothing makes brawling easier then getting LRM support. Nothing gets you killed faster brawling then expecting LRM support and finding it lacking.

The two things I have found out about LRM support in PuGs:

1) Give them time to get set up. Spotting too early is a waste of time and armor. If you can try to figure out where they are going to be ahead of time.

2) Not all LRM support is the same. There is a huge difference between your LRM support being 1km away from you or 300m. There is even a bigger difference between a LRM pilot that realizes that and one that doesn't. The quicker you can determine what you have the better off you will be.

Akulla1980, on 10 August 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

Problem is with bad lrm pilots is they hang back too far. So when they get a lock and launch a salvo the missiles only travel half way to the enemy mech before loosing the lock.

When i pilot my lrm boat i hang right at the back of the main assault force. With the Decay module at least most of the lrms hit, also the laser are actually helpfull.

Bad lrm boat pilots are their own worse enemy! Then they have the hide to blame it on their team.

All these players who know exactly what I'm talking about.

[ShinobiHunter]

Whenever I run anything with more than a LRM10 I always ask for target locks before launch. I do attempt to get my own locks, but when I'm in Charlie lance and Alpha is getting pounded 800 meters away that's not really possible (nobody ever waits for Charlie). I have watched so many players sniping without locking. It helps everyone out whether or not they're an lrm boat.

[Sandpit]

Lefty Lucy, on 10 August 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

Two people who I don't particularly agree with, versus
.

I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing that that's not the norm in the solo queue

ShinobiHunter, on 10 August 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

Whenever I run anything with more than a LRM10 I always ask for target locks before launch. I do attempt to get my own locks, but when I'm in Charlie lance and Alpha is getting pounded 800 meters away that's not really possible (nobody ever waits for Charlie). I have watched so many players sniping without locking. It helps everyone out whether or not they're an lrm boat.

exactly

[Pjwned]

Lefty Lucy, on 10 August 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

You hear it all too frequently in game.

"Hold locks."

"LRM boat here, press R to target."

And then they do little damage and die last, complaining that their team didn't hold locks.

Why is this? Are they truly gods of support walking among mere mortals with plebeian direct-fire weaponry?

No, they simply don't understand that "hold locks" also means "take fire from enemy mechs."

And then when they're out of position to provide effective support fire, people don't bother trying to hold the lock when it takes >10 seconds for the rain to actually come, because if they do they're going to die. A good LRM boat should only be firing indirectly when they *know* they have a dedicated spotter who is calling targets for them. If they don't have this, they should not be relying on IDF as a primary tactic, especially as this puts more enemy focus on their team mates with direct fire weapons.

So, to wrap up: if someone on your team is willing to hold locks, you need to be in position to take advantage of these locks or they take damage for no reason. Also, rely less on IDF, you're simply putting your team mates at a disadvantage.

This is exactly why I don't like playing slow LRM boats, if I'm running LRMs at all then it's on my shadowhawk going ~90 KPH (with an XL engine, but still) so that I'm not a useless brown log because I can't move fast enough to acquire my own locks.

[Bront]

The "Hold Locks" comments are usually to remind folks who don't bother to target ever to actually target things.

But yes, Indirect fire is tough to rely on, and often you can help with your Tag if you're just behind the front lines

[Noesis]

Spotter / IDF is a partnerhip that works with good communication and can be a good force multiplier.

There is no point having an ideal set of IDF platforms easily focussed down at range by DFS, but there can be opportune or situational moments where the e-tools on LRM boats could prove useful. Likewise the longevity of the attrition over time is the strengths of the LRM platform so keeping the spotter alive over the course of a match to dispence whatever ordinance is available to use is equally as useful.

NARC on lights is the best tool as it is a hit a run tactic best applied to allow for good targtting even if this has possible counters with ECM or cover. TAG however requires line of sight which needs good positioning to apply well so as not to be simply sniped out the game. So also consider TAG on the move. Got an extra ton to play with perhaps, or even consider a TAG will help with ECM use by any Mech but may compromise the build a little based on afforded weight and largely only useful if you know your going to be running a drop deck with ECM. UAV is another consideration to apply and might be more helpful to LRMs when strikes become more limited perhaps?

Spotters however with good comms can also give feedback about how well missile might be landing in the case of partial cover. So again communication is another helpfull aspect with the teamwork applied here.

Either way the situational best use of LRMs is a partnership between spotter and LRM boat. Sometimes IDF is the best tactic to apply other times help out if there is scope to do so as an LRM boat. The odd bit of damage sharing will help with the attrition game and might provide the odd bit of extra opportunity to fire even if its dumbfire from cover. Though XL engine use is a factor for IS with that potential weakness for weight saving for ordinance.

Those teams that learn to work as a partnership and equally take good calculated risks have the opportunity to use missile tech slightly more effective than only an IDF from cover mentality.

Edited by Noesis, 10 August 2014 - 02:47 PM.

[Fleeb the Mad]

This may be a bit of a derailment in the conversation, but I find the bigger problem with a lot of people who say 'Hold locks' is that they don't realize that enemies don't like getting shot at and frequently pop in and out of cover regardless of what the spotter does. Sure, some people don't lock targets. But the majority do, and the reason target locks get lost isn't because they're drooling into their console.

I've seen a few particularly belligerent LRM boaters treating their teams like idiots because they loose a salvo on an enemy mech that pops out to shoot and goes back out of LOS while the missiles are in flight. Also, since a random friendly mech has no idea what the LRM boat is shooting at, it's a bit much to ask they take a bunch of extra hits on the possibility that LRMs will come from elsewhere. The job of every mech on the field that isn't a TAG or NARC spotter is to put their own weapons to best use.

An LRM boat that is helpless without other members of the team locking targets is failing at that basic task. You can call me inconsiderate for switching targets, but nobody is entitled to being able to shoot from behind cover while someone else takes the risk. More to the point, if an LRM boat isn't in a position to see what kind of intervening terrain may be in the way before they shoot, they're being irresponsible themselves in asking people to hold locks so they can lob missiles that may not even reach the target.

[Macksheen]

I cringe whenever someone says "Press R for me to be useful".

Bring whatever you can to be useful yourself; if you expect your random teammates to (a) be kitted out with things you need or ( act a certain way to make you be useful ... then you are, I think, misguided.

Be able to get your own locks.
Be able to capitalize on any locks teammates happen to get.
Be able to take care of yourself.
Be able to function on your own.
Be ready to work as a part of a team.


What's that saying .... "Expect nothing ... blame no one ... do something ..." or similar?

[Bishop Steiner]

Sandpit, on 10 August 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

no, you wouldn't I suppose, everyone who's actually playing on a team does though.

OP, do you see what I was talking about now?

so one or two guys who represent the minority? Yeah I see these guys in match, but I see a lot more bad LRMBoat jocks then selfish brawlers. Part of the problem, of course, being that up until recently everyone wanted to pretend they were HoL or SJR and run cute little poptarts, which, shockingly, can't hold targets while cowering behind cover.

[Budor]

Seeing how many people fail to press R i have no issues with someone reminding them of the POSSIBILITIES...

[Novakaine]

Hmmph "Boats should not beg."
Any experienced rocketeer knows that rarely happens.
And a rocketeer should not depend on it.
Mechs are constantly torso twisting to avoid incoming fire.
Asking mech to hold targets is a sure means of early death in a match.
And a big way to waste salvo's at quickly vanishing targets.
Better yet 200 to 300 meters behind the main force is the optimum place to be.
Far enough back to support the pugs and close enough to hightail it to the pack in case of pesky lights.
If you notice I did'nt have a single kill.
Why?
Because our job is support.
If ya gonna boat spread the wealth and help your team for the win.
Wear the opfor down so the brawlers can get in and really wreck em.
You might even get a kill or to yourself.
But remember your job is support.
So do just that.
"Yeah I'm just that good."
All in fun though.

Edited by Novakaine, 10 August 2014 - 02:56 PM.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Most people don't understand that LRM users have hidden messages in their chat.

"LRM boat here, press R to hold locks"

Translated Subtitles: "I have LRMs equipped into my mech. Press R for me so I can hide safely behind this mountain and try to kill steal from you after you have almost cored your target, I'm sorry, I didn't want to waist tonnage on TAG because I don't like taking damage in my assault mech."

[Noesis]

Fleeb the Mad, on 10 August 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

More to the point, if an LRM boat isn't in a position to see what kind of intervening terrain may be in the way before they shoot, they're being irresponsible themselves in asking people to hold locks so they can lob missiles that may not even reach the target.

Target selection and timing is half the success to good LRM use and very much you should have this awareness, but it is still helpful to have feedback to round off the applied use of Missile tech in the spotter/IDF relationship. This partnership is much more effective as force multiplier to the LRM tech in use.

Edited by Noesis, 10 August 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[Sandpit]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 August 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

so one or two guys who represent the minority? Yeah I see these guys in match, but I see a lot more bad LRMBoat jocks then selfish brawlers. Part of the problem, of course, being that up until recently everyone wanted to pretend they were HoL or SJR and run cute little poptarts, which, shockingly, can't hold targets while cowering behind cover.

omg et tu' Bishop?

This is the more common mentality and response in the solo queue than what the OP was talking about, that's what I was pointing out. I wasn't then, nor am I now, attacking ANY one of you. I'm pointing out that "do it yourself" is exactly what's wrong with the audience of this game in many aspects

[Sephlock]

Lefty Lucy, on 10 August 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

No, they simply don't understand that "hold locks" also means "take fire from enemy mechs."

I think at least some of them realize this all too well .

Edited by Sephlock, 10 August 2014 - 05:03 PM.