219 replies to this topic

[LoneMaverick]

Satan n stuff, on 10 August 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

You also don't see any group or competitive unit asking other players to facetank for them, which is what that request typically means.

Half of the derps in the pub queue dont seem to even know what the R button means, this "call" is usually there to remind them.

Honestly spectating at times makes me fear for humanity's continued existence.

[Kiiyor]

Lefty Lucy, on 10 August 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

You hear it all too frequently in game.

"Hold locks."

"LRM boat here, press R to target."

And then they do little damage and die last, complaining that their team didn't hold locks.

Why is this? Are they truly gods of support walking among mere mortals with plebeian direct-fire weaponry?

No, they simply don't understand that "hold locks" also means "take fire from enemy mechs."

And then when they're out of position to provide effective support fire, people don't bother trying to hold the lock when it takes >10 seconds for the rain to actually come, because if they do they're going to die. A good LRM boat should only be firing indirectly when they *know* they have a dedicated spotter who is calling targets for them. If they don't have this, they should not be relying on IDF as a primary tactic, especially as this puts more enemy focus on their team mates with direct fire weapons.

So, to wrap up: if someone on your team is willing to hold locks, you need to be in position to take advantage of these locks or they take damage for no reason. Also, rely less on IDF, you're simply putting your team mates at a disadvantage.

It's gotten to the point where I just shake my head and chuckle at this now. In my Jenner, I count holding lock on an enemy for more than 10 seconds and surviving as an achievement worthy of fist pumping jubilation. Those selfish, fat blowhards in their LURM boats sitting back in the senate though, they really are a demanding, whiny bunch of twats.

"Hey, you, expose yourself to danger so I can profit! QUICK! AARGH, I CAN ACTUALLY SEE THE ENEMY NOW! YOU SUCK"

Get tag, NARC or some friggin' direct fire weapons, and GET YOUR OWN GODDAMN LUNCH.

[Pjwned]

LoneMaverick, on 10 August 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:

Half of the derps in the pub queue dont seem to even know what the R button means, this "call" is usually there to remind them.

Honestly spectating at times makes me fear for humanity's continued existence.

That might be less of a problem if there was a tutorial in the game that was worth a crap, but yeah if you don't rage at your teammates for not being your dedicated spotter then it's fine to remind people to hit R for fire support.

[CycKath]

LoneMaverick, on 10 August 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:

Half of the derps in the pub queue dont seem to even know what the R button means, this "call" is usually there to remind them.

Honestly spectating at times makes me fear for humanity's continued existence.

Strangely lot of people claiming in the heat of the moment they forget the existence of the R, J or Z buttons when you remind them too...

[Zoid]

I remind people to lock and hold simply because watching in spectator mode you often see 50% or more not bothering to lock at all. Even without a single LRM on your team, locking targets is a huge benefit.

Plus, if there is a straight-up battle going on and not just isolated sniping, those who know what they're doing know that if they lock on a prime target (say the Dakkawolf), there are going to be LRMs coming for it.

Honestly though, you can't really count on indirect fire locks unless you carry WAY too much ammo. You'll be doing good to have 20% of your missiles hit if you just rely on other's locks.

[AntharPrime]

In my case when I do pilot a mech with LRMs (I don't boat them, no more than 2 LRM 20s and some mechs I will have just an LRM 10 on them), I follow the group and like to be anywhere from 400 to 600ms from my target. I'm not greedy either, I'm more concerned with ammo conservation and making every volley count. I will strip the armour off a target and leave other mechs to finish the job so I can strip the armour off the next target. IDF can be useful if I can support nearby mechs when I don't have direct line of sight, all of my LRM mechs are pretty slow so if I can get a volley or two in before I can start firing on them with my lasers and ACs I whisper sweet praises to those that pressed that R key.

[Aim64C]

Zoid, on 10 August 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:

Honestly though, you can't really count on indirect fire locks unless you carry WAY too much ammo. You'll be doing good to have 20% of your missiles hit if you just rely on other's locks.

While I normally don't instruct people on the existence of the R button - I have seen a disturbing number who don't seem to bother to lock at all. While I can understand it during some little snippety-doo-dahs that happen, I've seen a lot of people not evaluate the target before they dump a long-recycle weapon into it when they could have sheared off a part of the mech or gutted its XL entirely.

While it's easy to sit in the back seat and 'drive' - it seems like a lot of these people don't really understand the concept of segmented destruction or why they should pay attention to it.

But what you say about LRMs is especially true. I almost don't bother shooting at indirect locks, anymore, especially since target deprivation means you get absolutely zero context to the lock (before, you could usually tell when a lock was about to drop and whether or not should try to drop the missiles into it).

At least missiles are actually registering their damage most of the time, now. That failure of the system had LRMs unplayable for nearly a year.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

AntharPrime, on 10 August 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

In my case when I do pilot a mech with LRMs (I don't boat them, no more than 2 LRM 20s and some mechs I will have just an LRM 10 on them), I follow the group and like to be anywhere from 400 to 600ms from my target. I'm not greedy either, I'm more concerned with ammo conservation and making every volley count. I will strip the armour off a target and leave other mechs to finish the job so I can strip the armour off the next target. IDF can be useful if I can support nearby mechs when I don't have direct line of sight, all of my LRM mechs are pretty slow so if I can get a volley or two in before I can start firing on them with my lasers and ACs I whisper sweet praises to those that pressed that R key.

You sir are a great man! Don't let others tell you otherwise!

[Livewyr]

I did not think this needed to be explained, Lefty, but thank you.

I guess some people do need it.

[Kilo 40]

"Press 'R' for a FREE Clan LRM strike!"

[Kaspirikay]

When I play my LRM boat, I'll usually wait for people to start brawling to unleash the rain. They'll usually fight long enough to get a few good strikes in.

[Kilo 40]

Kaspirikay, on 10 August 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

When I play my LRM boat, I'll usually wait for people to start brawling to unleash the rain. They'll usually fight long enough to get a few good strikes in.

That's all you can do. The ones smart enough to target a mech they are brawling with will get help and go on to kill other mechs. The ones worried about LRMs "kill stealing", too stupid, or not team players will most likely die much quicker.

Telling them to press R won't suddenly make them team players.

[Joseph Mallan]

Cathy, on 10 August 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

Most top pool pilots don't use them but when they do, for a laugh, the results have been stomp in their favour, most of the time from what I've read, this surprised me, as I thought it was all about the poptart

Whats sad about this truth is that as a combat weapon Missiles are a deadly asset to have at your disposal. PGI needs to do something that make LRMs a worth while weapon at all levels of play.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 August 2014 - 08:18 PM.

[Escef]

I'm seeing a lot of blatantly wrong or foolish stuff being said here. And you know what? It doesn't surprise me. Too many folks on this board have a "more l337 than thou" attitude, yet when I come across those same folks in drops they make me look awesome (and I'm pretty mediocre at this game).

• Asking people to get and hold locks for LRM support is fine, because a lot of players, mind-bogglingly enough, don't target their enemies.
  
• An LRM boat has to try to maintain a position where he can support anyone at a moment's notice, that means he isn't in a position to get his own locks most of the time.
  
• TAG is for brawler types, not typical LRM boats. NARC is for fast movers, like the Jenner; because TAG needs to be held on target, good luck doing that in a light.
  
• A good LRM boat moves so that shots will clear terrain, avoid whatever cover the enemy is using, and reduce flight time to target. Camping a good firing position is great, leaving that position to provide better support is fantastic.
  
• Fast medium LRM boats can make use of TAG because they have enough speed to avoid brawlers (and even some strikers) if things go bad.
  
• A good LRM boat has backup weapons in case something gets through the rest of the force or the fight goes bad. Few things suck worse than having an enemy with orange or red internals up in your face and the closest thing you have to defense is trying to kill them with collision damage.
  
• Refusing to help your friendly LRM boats is stupid. You are basically saying that you would rather throw away a potentially powerful ally.
  
• If you are so paranoid about "kill stealing" than I'm sure you team kill everyone else on your side to make sure they can't take your precious kills... Oh, you don't do that? Yeah, because you "kill steal" as much as anyone else does in this game, you freakin' idiot! You did 100 damage to the enemy after dueling him for 30 seconds and got the kill? Good for you, I did more than that with three salvos of LRMs fired from a hill top while in full view, in under 20 seconds, who stole who's kill?

Bunch of wanna-be elites and try-hards here.

[trajan331]

Awesome post Escef.

[Escef]

trajan331, on 10 August 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

Awesome post Escef.

Do what I can.

[Delas Ting Usee]

LOL.
Those people whining about fat Lurms sitting back on easy mode targeting targets WHILE they have to move up and face/tank crack me the **** up.
Obvious they're not nor EVER played a LURM boat effectively to know exactly what they bitchin' about - bunch of ignoramus really.
Good LURM boats cherish when lights or even mediums come for them - we're effective at taking care of ourselves we don't really need ya 'protecting' us, at least good players don't.
But if you've played LURMS before and are complaining on this thread then you've probably played a 50 tube LURM boat with NO secondary weapons; pssst - you're not an effective LURM boat.
Some complains here about how LURMs sit way back (800 meters or more) and depend on locks from you whilst you bravely face off the enemy just to get us locks and we steal your kill???
LOL.
Try 400 - 500 meters from the front lines as we know the travel time from tube to target is shorter and the effect of chained LURMS on targets is effective.
So effective that whilst you're brawling said enemy, our LURMS effectively rock the enemy hard enough that said enemy has a hard time targeting you.
Good LURM pilots will then go up to enemy Whilst targeting him with said LURMS until they're no longer effective and kill him with our secondary weapons.
Get it through your thick, ignorant skulls - it's a symbiotic relationship; we benefit you as much as you benefit us.
So quit whining and lock targets if only so you can get paper doll readouts to see where your enemy's weak points are.
LOL.

[Pjwned]

Escef, on 10 August 2014 - 08:27 PM, said:

• Asking people to get and hold locks for LRM support is fine, because a lot of players, mind-bogglingly enough, don't target their enemies.
  
• An LRM boat has to try to maintain a position where he can support anyone at a moment's notice, that means he isn't in a position to get his own locks most of the time.
  
• TAG is for brawler types, not typical LRM boats. NARC is for fast movers, like the Jenner; because TAG needs to be held on target, good luck doing that in a light.
  
• A good LRM boat moves so that shots will clear terrain, avoid whatever cover the enemy is using, and reduce flight time to target. Camping a good firing position is great, leaving that position to provide better support is fantastic.
  
• Fast medium LRM boats can make use of TAG because they have enough speed to avoid brawlers (and even some strikers) if things go bad.
  
• A good LRM boat has backup weapons in case something gets through the rest of the force or the fight goes bad. Few things suck worse than having an enemy with orange or red internals up in your face and the closest thing you have to defense is trying to kill them with collision damage.
  
• Refusing to help your friendly LRM boats is stupid. You are basically saying that you would rather throw away a potentially powerful ally.
  
• If you are so paranoid about "kill stealing" than I'm sure you team kill everyone else on your side to make sure they can't take your precious kills... Oh, you don't do that? Yeah, because you "kill steal" as much as anyone else does in this game, you freakin' idiot! You did 100 damage to the enemy after dueling him for 30 seconds and got the kill? Good for you, I did more than that with three salvos of LRMs fired from a hill top while in full view, in under 20 seconds, who stole who's kill?

1. Asking people to press R is fine, but if you're depending on everybody else to hold locks to be even viable then not so much.
2. That's ridiculous, you can't expect to maintain optimal LRM coverage on the whole battlefield, and if you're trying to do that while not firing anything because you're waiting on everybody else to get a lock then you're doing a bad job. You're usually better off focusing on 1 or 2 areas instead of everywhere and providing some suppression fire if you see an opportunity to do so at a farther away engagement.
3. TAG has a 750m range and you need to hold the lock to fire your missiles anyways, that's not a brawling weapon.
4. Agreed.
5. You can still use TAG effectively in bigger LRM boats, it might not be as effective but it still is.
6. Agreed.
7. Agreed but one can only help LRM boats so much, it also seems like a number of people don't care about providing proper LRM support fire if it means their paint is going to get scratched and that's really irritating, if you're boating a lot of LRMs then that also means you can take a few shots. Obviously an overextended LRM boat is quite useless but it seems like people ignore the careful balance of extending and hiding by just hiding away all day and not being very useful.
8. I'm not really sure who's so concerned about that, but okay.

Edited by Pjwned, 10 August 2014 - 09:30 PM.

[Escef]

Pjwned, on 10 August 2014 - 09:21 PM, said:

2. That's ridiculous, you can't expect to maintain optimal LRM coverage on the whole battlefield, and if you're trying to do that while not firing anything because you're waiting on everybody else to get a lock then you're doing a bad job. You're usually better off focusing on 1 or 2 areas instead of everywhere and providing some suppression fire if you see an opportunity to do so at a farther away engagement.

It's not ridiculous. You try to support as much of the team as you can. No, you can't cover the whole battlefield. And you don't need to. Most of the fight is limited to one or two areas, and on the smaller maps (like River City) these areas are not too distant. It does become an issue where you need to choose a group to support on larger maps. And the group that gets your support is usually the one that can hold a lock or throw a UAV up.

I will also note that despite the 750 meter range on TAG, there are several maps where even sighting the enemy past 400 meters is not easy.

[spectralthundr]

Sandpit, on 10 August 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

look through the responses in this thread

THAT'S the problem, not LRM boats needing support from their teammates to be used effectively. There's a reason you see 2-3 LRM boats able to wreck face when they're on a team that actually helps support them instead of saying "run out there and get your own locks loser"

that's called teamwork

Those guys that hide behind a hill all game spamming missles aren't providing much teamwork to begin with to be honest. LRM boats don't need to be front of the pack obviously, but at least being mobile and moving to spots where their LRM fire will be effectively helping the team goes a much further way then sitting in one spot all game shooting lrms into a building or hill side not doing any damage. Sadly most LRM pilots do just that.

Edited by spectralthundr, 10 August 2014 - 09:51 PM.