219 replies to this topic

[ShinobiHunter]

KamikazeRat, on 11 August 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

flip side: its like reminding people to use cover, not run off on their own, brush their teeth, and wash their hands after they go to the bathroom, you can tell them all you want, but if they weren't going to do it before you reminded them, they still aren't going to do it after you do.

Actually there are people that will hold locks if you remind them. At least in the Elo basement where I live

[Dawnstealer]

Lefty Lucy, on 10 August 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

You hear it all too frequently in game.

"Hold locks."

"LRM boat here, press R to target."

And then they do little damage and die last, complaining that their team didn't hold locks.

Why is this? Are they truly gods of support walking among mere mortals with plebeian direct-fire weaponry?

No, they simply don't understand that "hold locks" also means "take fire from enemy mechs."

And then when they're out of position to provide effective support fire, people don't bother trying to hold the lock when it takes >10 seconds for the rain to actually come, because if they do they're going to die. A good LRM boat should only be firing indirectly when they *know* they have a dedicated spotter who is calling targets for them. If they don't have this, they should not be relying on IDF as a primary tactic, especially as this puts more enemy focus on their team mates with direct fire weapons.

So, to wrap up: if someone on your team is willing to hold locks, you need to be in position to take advantage of these locks or they take damage for no reason. Also, rely less on IDF, you're simply putting your team mates at a disadvantage.

All of this. Also: I'll go and TAG up a, say, enemy ECM, say "Target G, G, G" (where "G" is the DDC), and then....nothing. I'll look over and, sure enough, there'll be an enemy Jenner with the 'missiles incoming' lock on them, wave after wave after wave of missile slamming harmlessly into the ground behind it...

[Rebas Kradd]

Kyle Wright, on 10 August 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

If you chose to run LRMs thats on you in my opinion. You are responsible for finding and holding your own targets as there is no way to communicate for to people.

That's silly. Most LRM boats lack the mobility to hold targets or choose battles, and besides, it misses the point of LRMs...indirect fire.

Missile boats should go hand-in-hand with spotters. Of course, since there's no incentive to be a dedicated spotter, nobody does it. And no other role should be expected to hold locks with much effectiveness.

[Thanatos676]

Orion-V Makes one of, if not the best, missile boats in the game. It has armor, mobility and a LRM 45 with 2160 rounds if built right. Stick with the main body at the BACK and rain all day...


People do need to realize that LRMs are good but a stalker with a std 280 engine and a LRM 60, isn't a good LRM boat. You need it to be fast enough to maneuver and have a good amount of firepower/armor as well.

[RisTanA]

Plz hold locks noob team or I report u 2 rito, thx

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...660511c1a89b26d

[MechWarrior849305]

Two more cents. I'll just write two sentences.

1) "LRM-boat here with 1800 missiles, please hold locks [for ME]"
2) "Take a lock to know enemy weaknesses. It'll help you to kill enemy faster. Default button is R"

Guess which one I (for one) never see ingame, and which one I see ALWAYS and always reply with something like in the second post?

This thread is not about almighty R-button, but about skilles noobz with LURMz

[Kilo 40]

DuoAngel, on 11 August 2014 - 09:39 PM, said:

Two more cents.

keep the change

[WVAnonymous]

TL;DR

Doesn't anyone carry 360 Target Retention anymore?

[Skyfaller]

Lefty Lucy, on 10 August 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

You hear it all too frequently in game.

"Hold locks."

"LRM boat here, press R to target."

And then they do little damage and die last, complaining that their team didn't hold locks.

...

So, to wrap up: if someone on your team is willing to hold locks, you need to be in position to take advantage of these locks or they take damage for no reason. Also, rely less on IDF, you're simply putting your team mates at a disadvantage.

Actually it is more of an issue of the team itself. Missile boats know that people won't hold locks all the time because they get shot at. What is really f'ing irritating is that you die and observe other people playing..and they literally DO NOT LOCK onto targets they brawl.

For example, my Stalker-5s is set as FRONTLINE missile support and dual AMS coverage. Because of my AMS I am the one that is next to the front line heavies and assaults to give them the full benefit of my 4 tons of AMS ammo (and maxed ams modules) as well as missile support when they brawl with the enemy front line mechs.

... but I observe them in their cockpits after I die that these front line people just rush in and brawl for 10~ seconds with an enemy mech and they never freaking LOCK them.

Too many times I see front line mechs brawling and not a single target lock is set out. The time it takes me to move my LRM boat into an LOS+missile path solution firing location so I can support them is precious seconds lost which I could have spent FIRING in support as I move to get LOS (to activate Artemis bonus and tag bonus). If the team-mate had locked onto it, i could've added significant damage to his opponent. But they dont lock the target hence the LRM boat cannot support them very well.

I know both sides of the issue. My two main rides are the missile boat stalker and the spider5D which I set up exclusively to recon+tag for LRM's. When in my spider the one LRM boat you see in almost every team literally wrecks the enemy team apart and forces them into cover which allows our brawlers to flank and overwhelm them.

Thanatos676, on 11 August 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

Orion-V Makes one of, if not the best, missile boats in the game. It has armor, mobility and a LRM 45 with 2160 rounds if built right. Stick with the main body at the BACK and rain all day...


People do need to realize that LRMs are good but a stalker with a std 280 engine and a LRM 60, isn't a good LRM boat. You need it to be fast enough to maneuver and have a good amount of firepower/armor as well.

Thats a really bad stalker lrm build then. I run a 300XL engine with LRM 40 and 1280 missiles plus 2 ams plus 2 large lasers and 2 tags (Arm mounted, everyone gives me **** about it until they see how criss-crossed tags keep the tag mark on target as they move and as I move haha).

Edited by Skyfaller, 16 August 2014 - 07:41 PM.

[RustyBolts]

Hell yes. Get so tired of hearing them cry because you could not hold a lock for them in the Frozen City.

[Captain Stiffy]

Anything in any game which has limited ammunition and indirect fire requires the user to choose appropriate times to risk payload. Expecting that your team members should be psychic and know when you are ready to choose their lock is insane. Anyone who has intentionally tried to hold a lock for someone who isn't even paying attention to it because they are obsessed with a poor choice of target knows the pain that this insanity causes.

[Phelantau]

As someone who enjoys LRM boating on a couple of my mechs I can agree that a bad boater is just wasting their teammates time. But at the same time there are plenty of good pilots who contribute to their team winning. I am a whole hearted believer in LRM support being only a little farther back then the brawling force. I believe that any target lock over 500 meters where you don't have clear line of sight is just throwing away half to three quarters of your missiles. While I do call out to lock targets for LRM's at the beginning of some of my matches I don't rely on others for my kills, their locks are just a bonus. I don't expect players to sit out in the open to hold a lock. When I am running my other mechs I lock every chance I get while I am moving around the map. If a boater can get a lock before I go back into cover that's all they can ask. A good pilot can make use of intermittent locks to do their job.

I am a firm believer in TAG and when my team is beaten I am usually killed around the middle because I am right in the action and want to insure that all of my missiles are going hit their target. To the gripers who say LRM support steals their kills I will just say that in most games I do at least 500 to 600 damage with five or more assists and one or two kills. That means that I am softening up your kills for you more then I'm getting kills. To the guys out there who appreciate the backup I will support you any time. To the rest, I hope you are all on the opposite teams because I would rather win with a good team then worry about guys who just want high kill counts.

[Vassago Rain]

'Hold locks plz' is a pretty clear sign you're on the bad team.

[Goose]

Vassago Rain, on 16 August 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

'Hold locks plz' is a pretty clear sign you're on the bad team.

Sorry about your bad luck: What now, Hotshot?

[Escef]

Goose, on 16 August 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

Sorry about your bad luck: What now, Hotshot?

He's just trolling. He's got nothing intelligent to say, so he just tries to insult people and get a rise out of them.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

The other day was the straw that broke my lights back.

The beginning of the match was counting down and a LRM boat says in team chat very aggressively I dont remember exactly how how asked "hold locks" but to paraphrase it was something along the lines of calling other people noobs and bad pilots and to hold *bleeping* locks for him.

My response was "why the eff would other people take damage so you can shoot your LRMS with no consequences". He said nothing in return.

Look as a light, I love a GOOD LRM mech that knows I have a lock im in a dog fight and knows how to use LRMS. As a light pilot I hate LRM boats that think keeping a lock holds no consequences for the person getting the lock while the LRM boat is behind enemy lines safe and clear.

Any LRM boat worth their weight in CB does not need to ask for others to hold locks, they just know if your going to sit pretty in no danger your going to get what you get or you can take chances and get line of sigh.

[Timelordwho]

Helsbane, on 10 August 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Half of the issue is a big, slow, Lurm boat that thinks devastation can only come from 50+ tubes. Fast, mobile (preferably jump capable) Lurm units with the ability to stay in range and flank are far superior to the lumbering field battery that gets shut down when a single light mech comes calling. Griffons, Kintaros, Catapults, etc make better Lurm units than Stalkers or Battlemasters simply because they can reposition and keep the fire hitting by rotating around their enemy's cover, thereby eliminating its effectiveness and often driving them into the open for other friendly units.

It depends, agile LRM platforms, boats, and non dedicated LRM platforms all have their place on the battlefield.

The boats are really one of the best ways to drop assault/slow heavy mechs. 60-120 tubes(1-2 boats) of LRMs just a lot of damage throughput.

Agile LRM platforms like the trebuchet/fast catapults are very good at assisting direct fire engagements, and they can usually self-tag. They are probably the best support mech for fighting mediums and heavies. you can usually also spare some tonnage for mid-range weapons on them as well.

Non-dedicated LRM platforms exist between the agile LRM platforms and brawlers, they can brawl but they'd like to stay at roughly 300-500 meters out so they can use multiple weapon systems, and they can also add incidental indirect fire

[Sorbic]

I'll sometimes ask folks to hold locks when it's safe or simply say "LRM here" to let folks with Narc know whether they should try and stick them. Of course I try to get my own locks and always run tag if I'm in a LRM heavy mech, but even if I'm going to have LOS it's helpful to already have the lock establishing as I crest a hill/turn a corner. Not to mention it decreases the chances of a locks breaking even when I fired with LOS...

Heck, I usually try to avoid getting the killing blows when it's the last enemy and I'm far off firing indirectly. I just appreciate letting me get an assist.

Edited by Sorbic, 17 August 2014 - 12:58 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Holding locks is not rocket science and part of working your team effectively. The good players who win know that banging the r key does nothing for a team and that is why LRM boats ask players to hold.

Its simple really and now with radar derp it becomes more important.

I think if you just watch players you will see how incompetent some can be even if they score well. Sure they fire on the target but locking on is foreign to them. Maybe noobs or to dumb to understand he can bring missles on top of his target increasing the odds of closing his kill quickly. All this is good for the team.

And for all you tag and Narc pilots, you are most loved of all.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 August 2014 - 03:08 AM, said:

Holding locks is not rocket science and part of working your team effectively. The good players who win know that banging the r key does nothing for a team and that is why LRM boats ask players to hold.

Its simple really and now with radar derp it becomes more important.

I think if you just watch players you will see how incompetent some can be even if they score well. Sure they fire on the target but locking on is foreign to them. Maybe noobs or to dumb to understand he can bring missles on top of his target increasing the odds of closing his kill quickly. All this is good for the team.

And for all you tag and Narc pilots, you are most loved of all.

actually cycling targets to find the right one, what load outs each mech has, where they are hurt is exactly what good players do.

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 17 August 2014 - 03:21 AM.