IMO, lrms are really overpowered as they are right now: playing mostly brawlers, i can rarely even get in range of my main weapons without being torn apart by a lrm-30 kitfox (1on1, no other mechs involved) What I see as the main problem is that clanners can just carry way too many lrms because of the low weight of clan lrms. For that reason, it feels like half the mechs on the battlefield are lrm boats which is, IMO, a clear indicator that theyre overpowered, otherwise, they wouldnt be used so extremely much. Please leave your opinions on this topic here.
4
94 replies to this topic
#2
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- Bad Company
- 1,633 posts
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Posted 13 August 2014 - 12:43 PM
first of all LRM:s are not overpowered.
currently they are useful but not useless,25-35 percent of lrm land in their target anyway.(watch the stats dude)
IMO current LRM balance is good,they are not useless,but a good support weapon.
And i play skirmisher mechs and brawlers,in solo drops,dropping in a 100 percent LRM mechs is a death sentence anyway.
NARC is problematic in Alpine and Caustic,but in solo drops,almost nobody drops with NARC anyway so no probs there
currently they are useful but not useless,25-35 percent of lrm land in their target anyway.(watch the stats dude)
IMO current LRM balance is good,they are not useless,but a good support weapon.
And i play skirmisher mechs and brawlers,in solo drops,dropping in a 100 percent LRM mechs is a death sentence anyway.
NARC is problematic in Alpine and Caustic,but in solo drops,almost nobody drops with NARC anyway so no probs there
#3
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- Philanthropist
- 94 posts
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- LocationItalia
Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:17 PM
i wouldn't call lrms overpowered, you just need to know how to deal with them 
First of all,ecm.
Ecm render the acquisition of the target difficult (if not impossible) for the enemy.
So, as soon as the match start, localize the ecm mech and make sure that he cover the main team, and stick with it.
But in pug's games,it could happen that there are no ecm available in your team, or the ecm decide to leave the group and go by himself.
so what can you do?
Stick with the team and equip ams.
Ams has only one role, to counter the lrm.
one ams can bring down 3 missile per volley, making that lrm 20 directed to you an lrm 17; which is still a big number of missiles, but if you stay close to another ams friend you can stack your effects.
If you get 7 ams , that lrm 20 will be completely shoot down.
If for a reason or another, you find yourself alone targetted by lrm, find cover
That's the most basic form of defence.
Don't run in the open alone, not only lrm but any form of focus fire will tear you into pieces. Instead, as soon as you can hear betty screaming "warning incoming missiles", get a rock, a building anything taller than you between your mech and the danger.
Remember, lrm require lock, so the enemy has to get the target by himself or via a spotter.
If you find yourself under a barrage of lrm, try to identify one of the two, and shoot back (while you get cover).
No one like to be shotted at, and they will probably back up losing the lock.
If you cant find none of the two, chances are that you are under uav or narc.
While in cover search in the sky for a hovering object (the uav), if you find it, shoot it an destroy it, if not try to get under ecm or stay under cover.
If all of this doesn't work, modules.
Modules are expensive, but effective.
"Radar deprivation" make the enemy lose the target immediately after losing sight of you. (it's probably best used on a 70+ kph mech).
"Ams overload" will make your ams shoot faster, and deal more damage to that lrm volley.
"Ams range" will also allow you to shoot down more missiles, while covering better your allies
Additionally you can try to use lrm by yourself, to learn how they work and what stop them by experience.
If all of that fail, well...
The enemy have done really a good job, not because lrm are op, but because the pilot is op.
TL;DR
-get ecm near you or use an ecm capable mech by yourself
-equip ams on your mech
-get the allies to cover you with ams and ecm
-use the cover
-get some modules that counter the lrm (radar deprivation, ams overload, ams range)
-shoot back at the lrm mech
First of all,ecm.
Ecm render the acquisition of the target difficult (if not impossible) for the enemy.
So, as soon as the match start, localize the ecm mech and make sure that he cover the main team, and stick with it.
But in pug's games,it could happen that there are no ecm available in your team, or the ecm decide to leave the group and go by himself.
so what can you do?
Stick with the team and equip ams.
Ams has only one role, to counter the lrm.
one ams can bring down 3 missile per volley, making that lrm 20 directed to you an lrm 17; which is still a big number of missiles, but if you stay close to another ams friend you can stack your effects.
If you get 7 ams , that lrm 20 will be completely shoot down.
If for a reason or another, you find yourself alone targetted by lrm, find cover
That's the most basic form of defence.
Don't run in the open alone, not only lrm but any form of focus fire will tear you into pieces. Instead, as soon as you can hear betty screaming "warning incoming missiles", get a rock, a building anything taller than you between your mech and the danger.
Remember, lrm require lock, so the enemy has to get the target by himself or via a spotter.
If you find yourself under a barrage of lrm, try to identify one of the two, and shoot back (while you get cover).
No one like to be shotted at, and they will probably back up losing the lock.
If you cant find none of the two, chances are that you are under uav or narc.
While in cover search in the sky for a hovering object (the uav), if you find it, shoot it an destroy it, if not try to get under ecm or stay under cover.
If all of this doesn't work, modules.
Modules are expensive, but effective.
"Radar deprivation" make the enemy lose the target immediately after losing sight of you. (it's probably best used on a 70+ kph mech).
"Ams overload" will make your ams shoot faster, and deal more damage to that lrm volley.
"Ams range" will also allow you to shoot down more missiles, while covering better your allies
Additionally you can try to use lrm by yourself, to learn how they work and what stop them by experience.
If all of that fail, well...
The enemy have done really a good job, not because lrm are op, but because the pilot is op.
TL;DR
-get ecm near you or use an ecm capable mech by yourself
-equip ams on your mech
-get the allies to cover you with ams and ecm
-use the cover
-get some modules that counter the lrm (radar deprivation, ams overload, ams range)
-shoot back at the lrm mech
Edited by Nazar24, 13 August 2014 - 02:51 PM.
#4
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- Legendary Founder
- 86 posts
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Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:38 PM
Nazar24, on 13 August 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:
i wouldn't call lrms overpowered, you just need to know how to deal with them
First of all,ecm.
Ecm render the acuisition of the target difficult (if not impossible) for the enemy.
So, as soon as the match start, localize the ecm mech and make sure that he cover the main team, and stick with it.
But in pug's games,it could happen that there are no ecm available in your team, or the ecm decide to leave the group and go by himself.
so what can you do?
Stick with the team and equip ams.
Ams has only one role, to counter the lrm.
one ams can bring down 3 missile per volley, making that lrm 20 directed to you an lrm 17; which is still a big number of lrm, but if you stay close to another ams friend you can stack your effects.
If you get 7 ams , that lrm 20 will be completely shoot down, and moreover all of those numbers are valid for "IS" lrm, ams can be even more effective against the clanners.
If for a reason or another, you find yourself alone targetted by lrm, find cover
That's the most basic form of defence.
Don't run in the open alone, not only lrm but any form of focus fire will shred you to pieces. Instead, as soon as you can hear betty screaming "warning incoming missiles", get a rock, a building anything taller than you between your mech and the danger.
Remember, lrm require lock, so the enemy has to get the target by himself or via a spotter.
If you find yourself under a barrage of lrm, try to identify one of the two, and shoot back (while you get cover).
No one like to be shotted at, and they will probably back up losing the lock.
If you cant find none of the two, chances are that you are under uav or narc.
While in cover search in the sky for a hovering object (the uav), if you find it, shoot it an destroy it, if not try to get under ecm or stay under cover.
If all of this doesn't work, modules.
Modules are expensive, but effective.
"Radar deprivation" make the enemy lose the target immediately after losing sight of you. (it's probably best used on a 70+ kph mech).
"Ams overload" will make your ams shoot faster, and deal more damage to that lrm volley.
"Ams range" will also allow you to shoot down more missiles, while covering better your allies
If all of that fail, well...
the enemy have done really a good job, not because lrm are op, but because the pilot is op.
TL;DR
-get ecm near you or use an ecm capable mech by yourself
-equip ams on your mech
-get the allies to cover you with ams and ecm
-use the cover
-get some modules that counter the lrm (radar deprivation, ams overload, ams range)
-shoot back at the lrm mech
First of all,ecm.
Ecm render the acuisition of the target difficult (if not impossible) for the enemy.
So, as soon as the match start, localize the ecm mech and make sure that he cover the main team, and stick with it.
But in pug's games,it could happen that there are no ecm available in your team, or the ecm decide to leave the group and go by himself.
so what can you do?
Stick with the team and equip ams.
Ams has only one role, to counter the lrm.
one ams can bring down 3 missile per volley, making that lrm 20 directed to you an lrm 17; which is still a big number of lrm, but if you stay close to another ams friend you can stack your effects.
If you get 7 ams , that lrm 20 will be completely shoot down, and moreover all of those numbers are valid for "IS" lrm, ams can be even more effective against the clanners.
If for a reason or another, you find yourself alone targetted by lrm, find cover
That's the most basic form of defence.
Don't run in the open alone, not only lrm but any form of focus fire will shred you to pieces. Instead, as soon as you can hear betty screaming "warning incoming missiles", get a rock, a building anything taller than you between your mech and the danger.
Remember, lrm require lock, so the enemy has to get the target by himself or via a spotter.
If you find yourself under a barrage of lrm, try to identify one of the two, and shoot back (while you get cover).
No one like to be shotted at, and they will probably back up losing the lock.
If you cant find none of the two, chances are that you are under uav or narc.
While in cover search in the sky for a hovering object (the uav), if you find it, shoot it an destroy it, if not try to get under ecm or stay under cover.
If all of this doesn't work, modules.
Modules are expensive, but effective.
"Radar deprivation" make the enemy lose the target immediately after losing sight of you. (it's probably best used on a 70+ kph mech).
"Ams overload" will make your ams shoot faster, and deal more damage to that lrm volley.
"Ams range" will also allow you to shoot down more missiles, while covering better your allies
If all of that fail, well...
the enemy have done really a good job, not because lrm are op, but because the pilot is op.
TL;DR
-get ecm near you or use an ecm capable mech by yourself
-equip ams on your mech
-get the allies to cover you with ams and ecm
-use the cover
-get some modules that counter the lrm (radar deprivation, ams overload, ams range)
-shoot back at the lrm mech
+1
#5
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- Urban Commando
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Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:59 PM
NARC op. Missiles can now actually track the beacon without it being lost after 2 damage. Needs immediate nerf.
Seriously though, peaople are enjoyng the usefulness of NARC and are celebrating it with Missile Spams on 'Mechs that still haven't learned that investing 1.5 tons into AMS can go a long way on a larger 'Mech. Also, especially if you're using a Brawler, you should be familiar with the mechanics of moving with cover, or are you trying to rush PP snipers as well? I do not forsee many kills in your brawling future that way.
Seriously though, peaople are enjoyng the usefulness of NARC and are celebrating it with Missile Spams on 'Mechs that still haven't learned that investing 1.5 tons into AMS can go a long way on a larger 'Mech. Also, especially if you're using a Brawler, you should be familiar with the mechanics of moving with cover, or are you trying to rush PP snipers as well? I do not forsee many kills in your brawling future that way.
#6
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:12 PM
are you torso twisting to spread damage? If not, you're doing it wrong.
are you moving towards cover when you hear "warning, incoming missiles? If not, you're doing it wrong.
do you check if the enemy lock is still on you before moving out completely into the open? If not, you're doing it wrong.
do you stay in cover and laugh at the ineffective LRMs flying at your NARCed mech? If not, you're doing it wrong.
is your team pushing into a LRM heavy enemy team instead of running away? If not, your team is doing it wrong
LRMs are not OP, pilots just need to get better at piloting.
are you moving towards cover when you hear "warning, incoming missiles? If not, you're doing it wrong.
do you check if the enemy lock is still on you before moving out completely into the open? If not, you're doing it wrong.
do you stay in cover and laugh at the ineffective LRMs flying at your NARCed mech? If not, you're doing it wrong.
is your team pushing into a LRM heavy enemy team instead of running away? If not, your team is doing it wrong
LRMs are not OP, pilots just need to get better at piloting.
#7
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- The Bowman
- 3,715 posts
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Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:16 PM
LRMs are NOT overpowered in the least. There are many ways to deal with them, as outlined in previous posts. When it was mentioned that you couldn't even get close to your opponent because of the LRM spam, that's how it's supposed to be. LRMs are a suppression weapon that hit between 23 and 30 percent of the time, and are meant to allow friends to get closer to their opposition and do more damage, or to maneuver out of the way if they've been hurt and need a place to recoup and regroup.
LRM hits are 1.1 per missile that hits. Firing an LRM-5 may deliver as much as 5.5 points of damage, but more likely 2.2. The LRM-20 might deliver as much as 22 points of damage, but more often than not it only delivers 12. It is not a direct hitting weapon, and it is not a trapping weapon, despite its suppression capabilities. If you are trapped in by two 'Mechs with autocannons of ANY size, you are going to take more damage and die more quickly than you will from missile spam, unless multiple elements are concentrating on you at the same time. That is, really, the only way for missile teams to score any kills at all, is if they prime and spam.
LRM hits are 1.1 per missile that hits. Firing an LRM-5 may deliver as much as 5.5 points of damage, but more likely 2.2. The LRM-20 might deliver as much as 22 points of damage, but more often than not it only delivers 12. It is not a direct hitting weapon, and it is not a trapping weapon, despite its suppression capabilities. If you are trapped in by two 'Mechs with autocannons of ANY size, you are going to take more damage and die more quickly than you will from missile spam, unless multiple elements are concentrating on you at the same time. That is, really, the only way for missile teams to score any kills at all, is if they prime and spam.
#8
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- The Mercenary
- 89 posts
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- LocationIndiana United States
Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:38 PM
I have been playing this game for quite a long time and have never once through any incarnation of LRMs have i thought they were overpowered.
Using simple tactics shuts them down and limits the damage they can cause.
If you are getting killed often by them you need to change something you are doing and adapt.
I myself sometimes get to cocky and run out guns blazing and get hammered by lrms but never do i say they are overpowered
all i say is dang i need to quit doing that and use my head.
Using simple tactics shuts them down and limits the damage they can cause.
If you are getting killed often by them you need to change something you are doing and adapt.
I myself sometimes get to cocky and run out guns blazing and get hammered by lrms but never do i say they are overpowered
all i say is dang i need to quit doing that and use my head.
#9
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- Survivor
- 7 posts
Rookie
Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:40 PM
Kay Wolf, on 13 August 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:
It is not a direct hitting weapon, and it is not a trapping weapon, despite its suppression capabilities. If you are trapped in by two 'Mechs with autocannons of ANY size, you are going to take more damage and die more quickly than you will from missile spam, unless multiple elements are concentrating on you at the same time. That is, really, the only way for missile teams to score any kills at all, is if they prime and spam.
But but... it takes skill to click left and/or right mouse button on enemy mech as opposed to clicking when the reticule is red, therefore autocannons should be much ownage and many damage. Right?
Edit: I always use "3" key (or something else than left click anyway) to fire my LRMs so I must be an advanced player.
2nd edit: Anyone about to flame, check batteries of sarcasm-o-tron.
Edited by RokRoland, 13 August 2014 - 03:41 PM.
#10
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- The Universe
- 816 posts
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Posted 13 August 2014 - 05:32 PM
RuneOfDeath, on 13 August 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:
IMO, lrms are really overpowered as they are right now: playing mostly brawlers, i can rarely even get in range of my main weapons without being torn apart by a lrm-30 kitfox (1on1, no other mechs involved) What I see as the main problem is that clanners can just carry way too many lrms because of the low weight of clan lrms. For that reason, it feels like half the mechs on the battlefield are lrm boats which is, IMO, a clear indicator that theyre overpowered, otherwise, they wouldnt be used so extremely much. Please leave your opinions on this topic here.
Maybe in a pub match, because pub /casual players neglect lights running in the background narcing and tagging teammates/you. Or fail to peek and hit missle boaters, who are standing in the open tagging, thus giving them confidence to just stand in the open and target your team.
In a competitive scenario (no teams really run LRMs so that should give you insight) it would fail. To stand out in the open and get lock would get you killed by most advanced players in MWO (advanced and MWO in the same sentence, contradiction?)
Further , lights running around solo that could survive in pugs would be oblitered in a competitive match.
And, it's actually very easy to simply take Radar Dep. and simply get cover behind a hill and dodge all the incoming missles. You could also have your "competent" teammate who you are on coms with then peek the enemy missle boater(s) and obliterate them.
Again, in a competitive scenario, it's a completely different scenario.
Now, in open pugs, where people seem oblivious to what they are even doing, or seem to not even know how to move the mech, or let enemy lights run in the background 200m away unnoticed - - yeah, missle can seem overpowered....
#11
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- Rage
- 7,636 posts
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- LocationWisconsin
Posted 13 August 2014 - 05:44 PM
RuneOfDeath, on 13 August 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:
IMO, lrms are really overpowered as they are right now: playing mostly brawlers, i can rarely even get in range of my main weapons without being torn apart by a lrm-30 kitfox (1on1, no other mechs involved) What I see as the main problem is that clanners can just carry way too many lrms because of the low weight of clan lrms. For that reason, it feels like half the mechs on the battlefield are lrm boats which is, IMO, a clear indicator that theyre overpowered, otherwise, they wouldnt be used so extremely much. Please leave your opinions on this topic here.
Yet another "NURF LURMS" thread headed for either K-Town or General Discussion anonymity.
Look. LRMs are not OP. Learn what they do and can't do. I'd suggest running an LRM mech for a while, learn how to make it work, and then use what ticks you off piloting one to thwart them later. Of course certain universals remain true.
1. Cover is OP and use it every chance you get. Only the tactically blind ignore this universal fact.
2. Use the deterrents. If the strong likes the feel of nature in his face, the wise man uses an umbrella. This is true for rain or LRMs.
3. Get a faster mech. If you're not moving over 60, generally speaking you're too slow to be ignoring any of the first two points.
Edited by Kjudoon, 13 August 2014 - 05:49 PM.
#12
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- The Tyrant
- 15 posts
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- LocationQuebec
Posted 13 August 2014 - 06:36 PM
You could also power down behind cover or overheat, as those break signal lock.
That's how I like my Dire Whales: under a lurm shower!
Quote
3. Get a faster mech. If you're not moving over 60, generally speaking you're too slow to be ignoring any of the first two points.
That's how I like my Dire Whales: under a lurm shower!
Edited by Antagoniste, 13 August 2014 - 06:36 PM.
#13
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- Ace Of Spades
- 1,445 posts
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Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:21 AM
Radar depravation
Radar depravation
Radar depravation
Remember this module well. This is your first priority for your gxp and the single best cbill investment you can make to counter lrms.
Buy one ASAP and bring it on every match by switching it between your different mechs.
With this one module and smart tactics using cover lrms become a non-issue unless you are NARCed.
Radar depravation
Radar depravation
Remember this module well. This is your first priority for your gxp and the single best cbill investment you can make to counter lrms.
Buy one ASAP and bring it on every match by switching it between your different mechs.
With this one module and smart tactics using cover lrms become a non-issue unless you are NARCed.
#14
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- Bad Company
- 3,559 posts
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Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:27 AM
Not OP, but badly balanced. LRMs can be irrelevant or auto-win depending on what team compositions on what map and mode come up. In addition to being frustrating, it gives the matchmaker problems because player skill becomes less of a factor (and is thus not always tracked correctly when you pilot LRM mechs).
#15
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- Rage
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- LocationWisconsin
Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:37 AM
Antagoniste, on 13 August 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:
You could also power down behind cover or overheat, as those break signal lock.
That's how I like my Dire Whales: under a lurm shower!
That's how I like my Dire Whales: under a lurm shower!
you break signal lock, yes, but they hit the last known location... where you are standing... powered down.
#16
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- 637 posts
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- LocationWarsaw,Poland
Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:46 AM
If everything,LRM would get a small damage buff (up to 1.3 per missile) as now they are a bit below average than a nerf because unskilled pilots refuse to learn how to avoid them.
#17
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- Bad Company
- 10 posts
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Posted 14 August 2014 - 04:05 AM
Thanks for all your answers, i guess ill get that module. I wouldnt say that I am an unskilled player, I may just have misunderstood how lrms should work in the game. i thought of them as a support weapon, not an actual damage dealer, but it seems i was wrong.
#18
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- Bridesmaid
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- LocationIllinois
Posted 14 August 2014 - 07:08 AM
Although I agree that LRMs are not necessarily overpowered, they are overly prevalent on the battlefield at the moment. It's just too easy to pile up damage and kills on inexperienced players.
I've played more matches lately where I've burned through 3-4k rounds of dual AMS in a few minutes than I can recall over the past year. I try my best to cover others with AMS, but I'm starting to have to be more selfish with AMS. So my point is, it seems that LRMs are being carried on a greater number of mechs than in the past, not just dedicated boats. My guess is that the increase is from multi-threat clan mechs. This is definitely closer to lore, but seems to result in outrageous swarms of LRMs from all directions. New players have a very rough time adjusting to this.
Edit: Great post Nazar24. Very correct.
I've played more matches lately where I've burned through 3-4k rounds of dual AMS in a few minutes than I can recall over the past year. I try my best to cover others with AMS, but I'm starting to have to be more selfish with AMS. So my point is, it seems that LRMs are being carried on a greater number of mechs than in the past, not just dedicated boats. My guess is that the increase is from multi-threat clan mechs. This is definitely closer to lore, but seems to result in outrageous swarms of LRMs from all directions. New players have a very rough time adjusting to this.
Edit: Great post Nazar24. Very correct.
Edited by Greenjulius, 14 August 2014 - 07:41 AM.
#19
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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:30 AM
If y'all keep on with this incessant call for nerfs you're going to have us all limited to maybe small lasers.
#20
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- Legendary Founder
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- LocationVancouver, BC
Posted 14 August 2014 - 09:06 AM
Forget all your other strategies for avoiding LRM`s... here is the way it`s done:
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