116 replies to this topic

[Threat Doc]

I guess my problem is that, regardless of what 'Mech you start in, if you don't have the equivalent of SP bots, stupid AI, to beat yourself against and gain knowledge about the game, skill for how to play it, C-Bills, parts, supplies, etc., and you get your 'Mech shot out from under you and that's the only 'Mech you have, what are you supposed to do, then.

My concern is that we have so many prior MW offenders here, regardless of the game (MW2, 3, or 4), that players are not used to losing a 'Mech and not being able to immediately get into a new one. I understand that everyone on these forums, at present, and many who are simply lurking, are going to fire up their computers on the release date, giving some sense of a level playing field, everyone having to learn to play at the same time, but it'll take approximately 30 seconds for some folks to pick it up, while it takes way longer for others. Regardless, what happens when hundreds of us lose the 'Mechs we have on the first day? Those who are ready and willing to return to tactics and strategy will lose them just as quickly because more than 1/3rd of the community will come out rushing, with their l337 skills and knock people down as quickly as they can.

I guess I'm just wondering, more or less, how PGI intends to solve this problem, to circumvent or mitigate it?

[Traejun DiSanctis]

Kay Wolf, on 22 November 2011 - 09:30 PM, said:

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-SNIP-

I guess I'm just wondering, more or less, how PGI intends to solve this problem, to circumvent or mitigate it?

The only way to solve this is to give you an unlimited number of your chosen weight class' starter mech.

Anything beyond the start must be something you can lose - how they do that remains to be seen. But the starter needs to be available at all times.

[EDMW CSN]

In EVE, no matter what you do, no matter how broke you are, you will ALWAYS have a Rookie ship of your faction. I believe that is the way the game will be going.

[Traejun DiSanctis]

[EDMW]CSN, on 22 November 2011 - 09:43 PM, said:

In EVE, no matter what you do, no matter how broke you are, you will ALWAYS have a Rookie ship of your faction. I believe that is the way the game will be going.

That's where I'm going as well. I just think it's important that your "rookie Mech" be whatever weight class you've chosen to start with. It wouldn't make sense for people to choose Heavies or Assaults to start, but get knocked down to some ***** light mech as soon as they die once.

[UncleKulikov]

For heavies and assaults they could have a stripped down chassis.

[Kudzu]

Traejun DiSanctis, on 22 November 2011 - 09:45 PM, said:

That's where I'm going as well. I just think it's important that your "rookie Mech" be whatever weight class you've chosen to start with. It wouldn't make sense for people to choose Heavies or Assaults to start, but get knocked down to some ***** light mech as soon as they die once.

I'd take it a step further and say allow ALL of your faction's starter mechs available for use at any time-- but you don't own them (so they can't be sold or modified). This would give people a chance to try out different mechs and roles as they wanted.

[Traejun DiSanctis]

UncleKulikov, on 22 November 2011 - 09:50 PM, said:

For heavies and assaults they could have a stripped down chassis.

Seems too much like a penalty for choosing the heavier weight classes. A stripped down chasis for any class sounds ok - and makes sense as a cost of death mechanic.

Still, I think a stock start mech is the best option.

Kudzu, on 22 November 2011 - 09:52 PM, said:

I'd take it a step further and say allow ALL of your faction's starter mechs available for use at any time-- but you don't own them (so they can't be sold or modified). This would give people a chance to try out different mechs and roles as they wanted.

I like it.

Edited by Traejun DiSanctis, 22 November 2011 - 09:54 PM.

[DocBach]

Kudzu, on 22 November 2011 - 09:52 PM, said:

I'd take it a step further and say allow ALL of your faction's starter mechs available for use at any time-- but you don't own them (so they can't be sold or modified). This would give people a chance to try out different mechs and roles as they wanted.

I like it - your 'Mechs are being issued to you from your House's supply chain. No customization unless you OWN the 'Mech - which given the F2P model, you'd probably actually have to purchase with real money.

Which makes sense - its not like you can decide to take the 25mm cannon off the Bradley the Army assigns you because you want to mount six M2 .50 cals or a 105mm cannon from a Stryker MGS.

Edited by DocBach, 22 November 2011 - 10:06 PM.

[Kudzu]

DocBach, on 22 November 2011 - 10:05 PM, said:

I like it - your 'Mechs are being issued to you from your House's supply chain. No customization unless you OWN the 'Mech - which given the F2P model, you'd probably actually have to purchase with real money.

I think that would fall under the "no tactical advantage" angle, so we'll probably be able to earn them in-game as well.

[Traejun DiSanctis]

DocBach, on 22 November 2011 - 10:05 PM, said:

I like it - your 'Mechs are being issued to you from your House's supply chain. No customization unless you OWN the 'Mech - which given the F2P model, you'd probably actually have to purchase with real money.

Which makes sense - its not like you can decide to take the 25mm cannon off the Bradley the Army assigns you because you want to mount six M2 .50 cals or a 105mm cannon from a Stryker MGS.

Not sure I like that. Customization is a huge part of the BT/MW universe. There should be significant limitations on customizing non-omniMechs, but you should still be able to do it.

If you want to customize your starter with components you've purchased or salvaged - fine. But if you lose that Mech, those extras should not be reimbursed.

[DocBach]

Think of it this way - your unit signs a PHX-1 out to you. They still own it. You aren't going to be able to decide "hey, I don't care what House Davion thinks, I'm trading these stupid machine guns out for more armor! While I'm at it, this large laser and these small lasers gotta go - hellooooo PPC!"

You unit CO would be like "what did you do to government property boy?"

Customization is generally part of the MechWarrior video game universe; In the supporting lore, pretty much only "celebrities" like major characters from books and such had their own customized 'Mechs.

Edited by DocBach, 22 November 2011 - 10:16 PM.

[Traejun DiSanctis]

DocBach, on 22 November 2011 - 10:14 PM, said:

Think of it this way - your unit signs a PHX-1 out to you. They still own it. You aren't going to be able to decide "hey, I don't care what House Davion thinks, I'm trading these stupid machine guns out for more armor! While I'm at it, this large laser and these small lasers gotta go - hellooooo PPC!"

You unit CO would be like "what did you do to government property boy?"

Customization is generally part of the MechWarrior video game universe; In the supporting lore, pretty much only "celebrities" like major characters from books and such had their own customized 'Mechs.

This is a game and not restricted by the usual norms in canon. Without customization, this is just another giant robot shooter.

[DocBach]

Well - right now we're unsure if its restricted by the norms in canon; we've got no clue what they'll implement, but personally I like the idea of getting to use any of your House iconic designs for free from the get go, but if you want some exotic, more rare design (say like old Star League designs) or the ability to customize your ride, you'll need to invest a whole lot more time and own your 'Mech, instead of getting a loaner from your House.

[Kudzu]

Traejun DiSanctis, on 22 November 2011 - 10:18 PM, said:

This is a game and not restricted by the usual norms in canon. Without customization, this is just another giant robot shooter.

I think he's only talking about the starter mechs, not the ones you buy/earn later.

Edit: The post above this confirms my theory.

Edited by Kudzu, 22 November 2011 - 10:24 PM.

[Jeremy Hunter]

Traejun DiSanctis, on 22 November 2011 - 10:18 PM, said:

This is a game and not restricted by the usual norms in canon. Without customization, this is just another giant robot shooter.

What he said.

As for the losing your mech part of this...

Personally, I'd, instead of losing the 'mech, have a "repair time". People salvage and repair 'mechs all the time. Give it, like, a 24 hour time. You die in said mech, lose it for a day, be forced to use your starter (or any backups you may have) for the rest of the time you are on, and be able to resume using your hard-earned 'mech sometime the next day (or the day after that). We all don't wanna lose a 'mech we spent along time and alot of hard work getting forever due to a bad call or an ambush or whatever.

[Traejun DiSanctis]

Kudzu, on 22 November 2011 - 10:24 PM, said:

I think he's only talking about the starter mechs, not the ones you buy/earn later.

Edit: The post above this confirms my theory.

...and that's fine. It makes sense to place restrictions on the starter birds. But I wouldn't mind being able to customize those.

[DocBach]

Yeah, if your a mercenary or say someone in a House military who owns their 'Mech (in early BattleTech lore the galaxy was pretty much a feudal state where 'Mechs were passed along through generations and owned by families, not the state), you can tweak your 'Mech to whatever your heart desires (as long as you've got enough c-bills in your account)! But, if you're a House regular who doesn't own his 'Mech and drives whatever the unit supply says he's going to drive, sorry - no permanent modifications to House property, soldier!

[Haeso]

Jeremy Hunter, on 22 November 2011 - 10:25 PM, said:

What he said.

As for the losing your mech part of this...

Personally, I'd, instead of losing the 'mech, have a "repair time". People salvage and repair 'mechs all the time. Give it, like, a 24 hour time. You die in said mech, lose it for a day, be forced to use your starter (or any backups you may have) for the rest of the time you are on, and be able to resume using your hard-earned 'mech sometime the next day (or the day after that). We all don't wanna lose a 'mech we spent along time and alot of hard work getting forever due to a bad call or an ambush or whatever.

Speak for oneself when you say "All"

I'd love to have a selection of always available stock mechs that you cannot modify/limited modifications but any mechs you purchase for yourself, it blows and it's gone. If you eject before it goes up in smoke, and your team still wins, you get it back, if you eject before it goes up in smoke and the enemy team wins, they get it. This serves two purposes:

One: An actual economy. Unless the cost of repairing is high enough to prevent a net gain of credits, eventually everyone will have everything.

Two: It makes any mech you keep for a long period really matter, like in the books where mechs were basically family heirlooms before Helm. Reminds me of "this is my rifle". You take care of your mech it'll take care of you.


Alternatively have any downed mech lose all/most equipment, but leave the chassis repairable, and make the economy of the game based around buying weapons/armor/special equipment rather than replacing chassis, but this doesn't feel right for battletech, maybe some other game, but not battletech!

[DocBach]

Haeso, on 22 November 2011 - 10:32 PM, said:

Speak for oneself when you say "All"

I'd love to have a selection of always available stock mechs that you cannot modify/limited modifications but any mechs you purchase for yourself, it blows and it's gone. If you eject before it goes up in smoke, and your team still wins, you get it back, if you eject before it goes up in smoke and the enemy team wins, they get it. This serves two purposes:

One: An actual economy. Unless the cost of repairing is high enough to prevent a net gain of credits, eventually everyone will have everything.

Two: It makes any mech you keep for a long period really matter, like in the books where mechs were basically family heirlooms before Helm. Reminds me of "this is my rifle". You take care of your mech it'll take care of you.


Alternatively have any downed mech lose all/most equipment, but leave the chassis repairable, and make the economy of the game based around buying weapons/armor/special equipment rather than replacing chassis, but this doesn't feel right for battletech, maybe some other game, but not battletech!

"Life is cheap - BattleMechs are expensive"

Three: It gives an actual use for the eject feature!

Edited by DocBach, 22 November 2011 - 10:34 PM.

[Haeso]

DocBach, on 22 November 2011 - 10:34 PM, said:

"Life is cheap - BattleMechs are expensive"

Three: It gives an actual use for the eject feature!

One of the best quotes ever.

And yes I actually touched on just recently in another thread, why has Eject never had a bloody purpose outside TT? lol.