98 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

Reitrix, on 14 August 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

I think several things should happen for LRMs to be in a balanced state.
-Cut the Ammo harshly. Stuff TT rules for this.
-Push the global reload for all LRM launchers to 8 - 12 seconds.
-Increase the time needed to achieve a lock. ( And stop sharing that lock with Streaks.)
-Create a system that limits the number of LRM launchers per team.

[Jonathan Paine]

Reitrix, on 14 August 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

So 3 matches tonight, can't take a step out of cover without hundreds of missiles lobbed in my direction.
Tried in Assaults, Heavies and Mediums. ECM is irrelevant, As only the A1 Cat is incapable of carrying its own TAG. And the majority of all the boats i've seen are Stalkers.

...

And yesterday I took 2xAC20 to the back of the mech and died. Bo-ho. LRMs test your skill. If you seriously believe that missiles lock instantly, travel instantly and that locks cant be broken, then maybe you should consider some text based adventure game instead.

[Khujjo]

I rarely die to LRMs. If I do it is because I made a mistake and was my fault. Hiding behind cover may seem like you are "using" cover, but it provides easy targets for scouts to tag/narc you while the LRMers get to a position to hit you. You also make a giant Arty/Artillery target, but that's another story. Try using cover as you advance forward as many have said. Always know your next cover point in advance as well as location of friendly ECM mechs. That way if you get tagged/narcd you can quickly get to cover before getting smoked by lrms. Constantly planning your next move, cover location, shooting lane, etc is a good thing. So is always having a contingency plan for when things go sour.

[Mcgral18]

Squarebasher, on 14 August 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

Always I love doing it so players like you can feel good when you shot me.

Fodder is always nice to have, I guess.


So, your opinion on Lurms?

Edited by Mcgral18, 14 August 2014 - 12:52 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Rhaythe, on 14 August 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

The problem is that it's hard to adjust LRMs without ruining the weapon system for those that don't boat it. A single medium with an LRM15, for example, can still do some decent damage with the weapon on its own. But if you nerf the weapon system in its entirety because of the Stalker boating 80 tubes, then that weapons platform becomes useless for the aforementioned medium mech.

I'm not convinced LRMs need too much tweaking currently to begin with. For the longest time last year, the weapon was useless. LRMs pretty much just tickled. They're somethign to be feared nowadays, and a little bit of a deterrent to Nevernewb recklessly running out into the middle of a wide open field.

Yes, it hurts when the other team boats missles - but that's no different than if the other team was boating PPCs. Luck of the draw. GGClothes, and next match.

First off, I think the OP is exaggerating a little bit but that's not why I'm replying.


Why should a Stalker be able to take 80 tubes anyways? PGI is the one that made this hardpoint system, so it's their fault.

How about adjusting cooldown based on what the original weapon was that was there stock? If the mech came with an LRM 5 in the RT and you throw in a 20, make it shoot 4 volleys of 5 with the standard LRM5 cooldown for each volley. Why does an AWE-8R get to shoot 60 tubes at once when it doesn't come like that stock?

For lasers, adjust their cooldowns the same way. Stuff a PPC where a small laser was? Your cooldown is now 7.5 seconds instead of 4.

For ballistics, make their ammo very volatile...instead of a 10% chance to explode when hit, make it 50% or 100%.

I'm just throwing this out there...hardpoint inflation has lowered time to kill and is part of the cause behind this high alpha pinpoint damage with little repurcussion era we're in.

Or implement hardpoint sizes...would possibly make more chassis/variants more viable. What IS medium would carry an AC20 aside from Hunchbacks?

[Squarebasher]

In general i do not think lrms are overpowered, but there can be times when some teams have loads and the opposition has none. That is more of a problem with the matchmaker and not any one weapons system, just been in a match 3 ecm mechs on the same side, I do not know how many on the other side but I bet it was none.

Narc can be harsh and you have no way of knowing if you have been hit with it, not unless your team tells you and in normal drops this would be rare.

[Wolfways]

Hans Von Lohman, on 14 August 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

We have the indirect fire right now. Lock on, fire and forget.

I don't want to be picky, but AAARRRGGGHH!!!!!!! I hate it when people say that!
LRM's are not fire-and-forget. If they were you wouldn't have to hold the lock until they land.

They should be fire-and-forget imo.

[Reitrix]

Sug, on 14 August 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

So you went off on your own, engaged a target, his teammate tried to help him with support weapons, you killed your target anyway, and then started a thread on OP support weapons?

Middle canyon, with the short twin hills on my left , myself down in the ramp area, Stormcrow came at us on HIS own, followed a few seconds later by a Direwhale (which engaged my team, also on my elevated left at the time).
As i was the first target seen by virtue of LoS Radar angles, i was the sole target for 2 Stalkers, a Catapult and a Kintaro with multiple launchers.

@ everyone else, This thread has amused me greatly, as i never said i was killed in any of the 3 matches i referred to in my OP. You all just assumed i was a nub standing in the open because it was a thread with {LRM} in the title.
It was the Direwhale glancing at me after the Crow died that got me on the canyon match, not the missile spam.
Hell, i went on to win 9 of my next 12 matches in my Nova in the solopub queue.

I very rarely have issues with getting creamed by LRMs, except in the Direwhale. But that that thing is .. Meh IMO. I just can't seem to do well in them.
And River City. Because it's impossible to get from one base to the other without crossing a huge open space and being generally visible to the entire enemy team. It's even worse without JJs. And the buildings that are less than 50m tall that don't stop LRM barrages. (Clip through or just plain ignore the building)

My issue is simply that breaking cover for any reason, for any length of time invites anywhere from 40 - 150 missiles coming at you.
Moving from "cover to cover" doesn't really exist on our maps. Canyon is an exception (RC too, but really, only when moving up and down your own spawn side, lol), But only if both teams stay in the Canyons and not take the high ground.

How many of the posters in this thread play outside of groups anyways? Genuine question. Lots of these replies sound a
lot like people used to playing with friends, and only with friends.

TL;DR, never said i was being killed by them, never said they were OP. Only said that multiple boats with large tube counts is a problem and threw down some suggestions to change that.

[Bishop Steiner]

so if you aren't dying to them, and they aren't OP..... how are they a problem?

Cause, last I checked, in battle, the moment the OpFor breaks cover, generally, they get shot at.

[Sug]

Reitrix, on 14 August 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

How many of the posters in this thread play outside of groups anyways?

I never play in a group

[Bishop Steiner]

I pug 75-80% of the time. In Mediums, the supposedly worst mechs in the game.

[Sug]

Wolfways, on 14 August 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

They should be fire-and-forget imo.

Maybe with Narc or direct fire.

[Mister Blastman]

The sad thing is human nature says to hide when getting lrm'd with indirect fire. That only makes you dead. Situation permitting, closing the distance quickly and smartly will almost always yield better results. It is counterintuitive, but it denies the enemy their advantage. Sadly, most people are stuck on their instincts and refuse to use that darnfangled think box they were given.

[Mcgral18]

Mister Blastman, on 14 August 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

The sad thing is human nature says to hide when getting lrm'd with indirect fire. That only makes you dead. Situation permitting, closing the distance quickly and smartly will almost always yield better results. It is counterintuitive, but it denies the enemy their advantage. Sadly, most people are stuck on their instincts and refuse to use that darnfangled think box they were given.

If the Lurmers are bad, you can safely stay in that cover for a minute or two. Just fire off your alpha, remove half their armour, and do it again, possibly from a different corner.

It removes further Lurm threats, as long as you don't wait too long. This is assuming you can't push safely, of course. Better to take less damage.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 14 August 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

Even if there is an increase in LRM usage.

Good players don't die to LRMs unless they make a stupid mistakes.

Bads are bads.

That's it.

Mediocre players survive Missiles as well...And I run an Atlas. Yes Missiles are used to kill me, but they are just one on the list. If you die to Missiles Only... You made the mistake. Even if that is to be caught in the open.

Fighting should not be easy or predictable.

I saw a Good player in a Stalker Lobbing Missiles at every enemy he could get locks on. He helped save 3 of our team. And someone complained cause he was firing from a distance... Funny how folks don't remember what the "L" of LRMs stands for!

[Mister Blastman]

Mcgral18, on 14 August 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

If the Lurmers are bad, you can safely stay in that cover for a minute or two. Just fire off your alpha, remove half their armour, and do it again, possibly from a different corner.

It removes further Lurm threats, as long as you don't wait too long. This is assuming you can't push safely, of course. Better to take less damage.

Oh of course. Most of the time I don't see pugs trying to do even this. They just huddle up and hope the bad stuff happening to them will stop.

If a push is not possible then offensive poking is justified.

[Wolfways]

Sug, on 14 August 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

Maybe with Narc or direct fire.

Direct-fire is the only thing i care about

Sug, on 14 August 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

I never play in a group

Same here.

Funny thing is i've just been in a match where people were commenting on the lack of missile spam lately.

Edited by Wolfways, 14 August 2014 - 02:17 PM.

[Xmith]

When I compare the LRMs stats to ballistics and energy, the numbers are close to being even. Which means the LRMs are actually balance to the rest.

I believe PGI is happy at where LRMs are at the moment. If LRMs hit rates start to somehow get close to 50%, they may indeed start to worry that LRMs are starting to be a bit op.

The average hit rate for LRMs could be at around 25% to 40%(artemis).

[Roadkill]

Xmith, on 14 August 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

The average hit rate for LRMs could be at around 25% to 40%(artemis).

Mine are 53 (CLRM-5), 45 (CLRM-10), 41 (CLRM-15), 31 (CLRM-20).

IS LRM-15 w/Artemis is 38, but that's old data as I haven't played any IS since my Clan pack arrived. The current more brawly-centric play style in the solo queue makes it easier to get hits with LRMs. I suspect I'd be up around 45% with the IS LRM-15 w/Artemis if I started using it again.

[bar10jim]

I was in a match last night and got killed early...thank you to the Tiberwolf pilot that decided standing *right behind* my Centurion was the best place for him to be. Anyway, I was able then to observe. What was I able to observe? SEVEN (7) distinct incoming streams of LRMs from the opposing team. Sorry, there isn't enough cover on Alpine to "advance" in that environment. Especially in a PUG match. With no communication (VOIP).

I've stated before, until there is an in-game VOIP that can be used in PUG matches that LRMs are OP in that environment. Aggressive play is great, but it only gets you killed if it's not coordinated with your team.