98 replies to this topic

[Lootee]

Powering down while Narc'd no longer works. They still see you.

[King Arthur IV]

played the trip ams kit fox. it destroyed lrms.

[Roadkill]

Lootee, on 15 August 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

Powering down while Narc'd no longer works. They still see you.

Worked for me last night.

[BigBadVlad]

hmmm have to try that again then cause yeah I can attest to being pumelled by LRM's after doing that exact thing on Caustic as well a few weeks ago...
And yeah I'll chime in dying to LRMS doesn't necessarily mean "you were stupid" you exposed yourself to the enemy you moron! sheesh! L2P...!

Try to move to support someone else getting pushed on our flank in Canyon map. Got there just before he's dead so go to turn around to fall back toward friendlies, get the Incoming Missiles warning, I lasted less than 5 seconds from the first LRM impact. I was going to try to make it under the railway bridge cause I knew what was coming. We'd already seen the enemy using NARC.

I was in YLW with near max armor, 1 AMS and yeah the LRM's chewed through me in less than 5 seconds. Don't recall how many LRM boats they had, think they had maybe 2 mechs narcing actually, 1 Locust with Narc anyway.

I don't think LRM's by themselves are overboard or OP right now, it's just when you combine them with NARC that they can really swing a game. Yes we got rolled....

[Roadkill]

BigBadVlad, on 15 August 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

hmmm have to try that again then cause yeah I can attest to being pumelled by LRM's after doing that exact thing on Caustic as well a few weeks ago...

You have to remember that any volleys that are already in the air are still going to hit. They may be "unguided" at that point, but you've powered down so you're still standing in the spot where they were last aimed.

That pummeling can go on for quite a while depending on how many missiles were inbound, and you may very well die while powered down. But in that case you were probably going to die anyway.

You can also try to get close to a friendly ECM, as Narc only counters your ECM and not your neighbor's ECM. That's not often an option, though.

[mogs01gt]

Reitrix, on 14 August 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

So 3 matches tonight, can't take a step out of cover without hundreds of missiles lobbed in my direction.

Scout mech working as intended.

[Kvaneal]

I found the maps you listed interesting. You left out the one map that is rough. If I've died 10 times in the last year to LRMs, 8 of those came in Caustic Valley. Other than Caustic Valley most maps have an overabundance of places to lose LOS or even get behind a shielding obstacle. At least half of those Caustic Valley deaths were because some bully put a NARC on me. (disclaimer: most of the mechs I pilot go over 100 kph.)

Edited by Kvaneal, 15 August 2014 - 11:10 AM.

[greytiger]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 August 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

Using cover is SMART I bet your one of those players that facerushes the badguys then cries that you got killed.

Back when I played lots of MW2, and when my little sister (who was 6 or 7 at the time) used to ask me how I managed to do so well in it, I told her a simple truth about the board game, MW2, and several other games I used to play:

Everything is a weapon or tool, use the terrain to your advantage, choose what weapons you use carefully - be aware of the limitations they have, and the strengths they have, and use them.

Recently, we where playing some game or another against each other (She was trying to take my crown as being the household champion), and she managed to take me out pretty effectively (The contest ended up being a draw - we literally somehow managed to kill each other when we both needed one point to win) early on - she quoted the exact same quote back to me.

And now, I pass it off to all of you - every weapon has a counter. LRMs are no different. I can attest to the fact that -if- I'm rushed in my LRM boat, I'm a very dead girl. I know the risks, and I try to position myself so it's less likely and not so easy to actually get to me to rush me. Getting and maintaining locks sometimes can be nigh impossible - unless I'm playing with my regular team, and even then it's -hard- to hold a lock sometimes. I piss away massive amounts of ammo because I'll have a lock, and trigger only to have the lock vanish right as I fire.

Against folks not being careful, or not using cover, my damage (and kill/assist rate) is pretty high.

Against folks who are using cover, playing somewhat smart, or who rush me my ratio is much less. Much much less.

All depends on what you expect from the weapon. It has limitations. It has strengths. Use the weaknesses against it.

GT

[Belorion]

LRMs kind of need a buff. They are one of the weakest weapons systems.

[terrycloth]

I was on a team that got destroyed by LRMs. We were in River City and spawned on the far side of the river from the citadel, and people decided to hide and snipe -- except that with all the LRMs on the opposing team (it was insane) we couldn't do any sniping, just hiding.

I was in a Jenner. Out of range to snipe. No one is going to follow me in a charge. I tried running them out of ammo by showing my face and then backing behind the building while 200 LRMs smashed into it. After five or six minutes of this, they still hadn't run out of ammo. q:3 Which I figured was our only hope.

Then I tried sneaking around the one side that has cover but they had spotters there and SO MUCH LRM ALL FOCUSED ON ME AHHH that I still couldn't find a way to get close without eating more damage than I had armor. Speed does not keep LRMs from hitting you, it just lets you get to cover faster, and the right kind of cover was sort of sparse (the buildings get smaller and the parkland just has gentle hills). There was also a lot of direct fire weapons that could bear on that whole area, so it was just bad all around, a you'd expect trying to dodge the fire of the entire enemy team by yourself.

Later, a couple other people tried to 'charge' but just died almost insantly as soon as they broke cover. Before other people could notice and charge with them. It was *really fast*.

Eventually we were down by half and they sauntered across to finish us off (maybe they finally ran out of ammo?), but it was a really long, unpleasant match.

...normally it's not that bad.

[greytiger]

terrycloth, on 15 August 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

I was on a team that got destroyed by LRMs. We were in River City and spawned on the far side of the river from the citadel, and people decided to hide and snipe -- except that with all the LRMs on the opposing team (it was insane) we couldn't do any sniping, just hiding.

I was in a Jenner. Out of range to snipe. No one is going to follow me in a charge. I tried running them out of ammo by showing my face and then backing behind the building while 200 LRMs smashed into it. After five or six minutes of this, they still hadn't run out of ammo. q:3 Which I figured was our only hope.

Then I tried sneaking around the one side that has cover but they had spotters there and SO MUCH LRM ALL FOCUSED ON ME AHHH that I still couldn't find a way to get close without eating more damage than I had armor. Speed does not keep LRMs from hitting you, it just lets you get to cover faster, and the right kind of cover was sort of sparse (the buildings get smaller and the parkland just has gentle hills). There was also a lot of direct fire weapons that could bear on that whole area, so it was just bad all around, a you'd expect trying to dodge the fire of the entire enemy team by yourself.

Later, a couple other people tried to 'charge' but just died almost insantly as soon as they broke cover. Before other people could notice and charge with them. It was *really fast*.

Eventually we were down by half and they sauntered across to finish us off (maybe they finally ran out of ammo?), but it was a really long, unpleasant match.

...normally it's not that bad.

An interesting tactical situation. I've been in this same situation, actually.

For River city, you're best bet is to duck under the bridges in that case - take a lance or heavies, and use the bride as a shield against LRM volleys, covered by a group of direct fire folks to keep other direct fire folks from sniping you.

Failing that, fall back into the city and draw them in. I've seen both approaches work with varying degrees of effectiveness.

And you are right, it's not normally that bad. I've seen matches where I'm all 'Their LRMs darken out the sun.... I guess we'll fight in the shade.... ', and then matches where it's like 'WTF is my LRM support....?'

Usually in the middle somewhere.

[Xyroc]

Reitrix, on 14 August 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

I think several things should happen for LRMs to be in a balanced state.
-Cut the Ammo harshly. Stuff TT rules for this.
-Push the global reload for all LRM launchers to 8 - 12 seconds.
-Increase the time needed to achieve a lock. ( And stop sharing that lock with Streaks.)
-Create a system that limits the number of LRM launchers per team.

So limit the ammo so that anyone that uses LRMs to acent their builds will be forced to remove them.

Global reload? what?

Stop sharing locks with streaks? What do you mean there? If you lock your target it is locked for any wep.

Limiting launchers is interesting but how you actually think it could work?

[Joseph Mallan]

Ph30nix, on 14 August 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

did i say you would be in the open?

caustic valley has no really PERFECT hiding spots, If you get narced on that map and there are enemy LRM launchers in range there are very few spots that offer 100% protection.
so like i said most of the time yes there is a fail involved somewhere but there are other times when its kind of unavoidable.

Sometimes, there just isn't a place to hide, that is how it should always work. It is not "not fair" for a fight to be in a bad place for your build if you choose to be a one trick pony. When I go to the Ball in a Jager40 and end up on an "open" map, I know it will get painful if I play stupid or get unlucky! I then blame myself, and throttle up.

[Brenden]

It would be nice to see the return of Brawls and the end of this incessant trench warfare that we've had going on. But that will never happen.

The thing about LRMs is that they're meant to be support weapons for both Direct and In-Direct fire. There are some mechs that are dedicated Support units, as well as the fact that there are mechs in the canon meant to be boating LRMS, the Yeoman and Catapult for example. Especially the former. As well as The Longbow, who's arms consist of nothing but missile launcher pods.

Look, I know LRMs need to be fixed, but if we go by what you're saying then those mechs that are dedicated support are going to die out. But if you make them too cool then everyone's going to be sporting six or eight. What should be needed is not a nerf but an incentive to use something else. PPCs I recommend need a buff in speed as well as lasers having a shorter beam cycle. That, in addition to speeding up AC2s and 5s could bring back brawling.

[Joseph Mallan]

I brawled for 3 hours or so Tuesday night. In an Atlas, I skirmished in my Under engined Jenner, Brawled in my Jager40, Centurion and provided Long range fire support from my Stalker... I have never NOT been able to brawl or fight as I wish... Situation permitting.

Can't provide LRMs if you're in a cave for instance.

[Brenden]

Well I still think the answer is not nerfing the LRMs but rather to provide incentive to play other configs.

[Joseph Mallan]

I have one LRM boat (per se) My Stalker. 2x LRM15 6(4 maybe)x Mediums 2x SRM6... So maybe not a missile boat only.

[Pjwned]

Hans Von Lohman, on 14 August 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

For me LRM's should be aimed by the guy who fires them just like a TOW missile in other games like Battlefield or the RPG in Half Life. The missiles only chase your crosshair and have nothing to do with the enemy. You can even fire up and over friendlies in the way by looking up, firing, and then down at the enemy, making your missiles arc by your own skill.

I thought Artemis IV let you already do this partially.

[Dirkdaring]

I got pelted by LRMs in a couple games in a row and got fed up. Fired up my LRM stalker. Next 2 games:

Match Score: 114, 4 kills, 6 assists, 887 damage
Match Score: 112, 0 kills, 9 assists, 846 damage

I hoped people would whine on the forums to help get LRMs nerfed.

Seems to be working. Please keep it up.