174 replies to this topic

[CocoaJin]

I think CW will bring some positive change...not immediately at release, but as part of the natural progression of the feature. I believe once the core mechanics behind the scenes are laid out, we will see the inherent need for more maps, bigger maps, more diverse mechs, and more diversity in modules to compliment the CW matches.

It will not remove the need to balance or hack away at it like a fanatical butcher...depending on your perspective. But with IS and Clan mechs currently represented with a decent number of chassis on both sides as a good starting point, resources can be better focused on getting CW out, and then focused on fleshing it out as a better experience, with more detail and complexity....that's all going to take time, there is no way to avoid it.

Edited by CocoaJin, 15 August 2014 - 12:49 PM.

[Koniving]

KingCobra, on 15 August 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

Most players in MWO never played the older PC MechWarrior games or played TableTop or role played BattleTech all they know is what MWO has shown them of the MechWarrior/Battletech IP and Universe .And it so shallow and NOT! BT/MechWarrior like its amazing people are still playing the game.

BattleTech/MechWarrior was not just some game you jumped in a mech with one build type and grinded out some ridicules skill points it was a game where you could actually immerse yourself with others to achieve solo and team victory's in tough competitive leagues.You could gain skill and practice with millions of other MechWarrior pilots from all over the world on in-game servers or the MSN gamming Zone.

MWO is right now the worst designed MechWarrior game ever and im not going to mention Battletech in the same breath as MWO.This game needs to be fixed back into MechWarrior and Battletech if the Devs are not willing to do it then the IP will die and MechWarrior right along with it.

Many will say owf yes MWO is fun but from a player that has experienced 20 years of fun competitive PC MechWarrior and Battletech games with social interactions and fun competitive leagues NO! MWO is not very fun.

I fully agree.

This is from the King Crab versus Dire Wolf thread, where many tabletop fights are posted.
This particular one was using Megamek (digital tabletop) as a testing ground to see what ECM actually does, with and without stealth armor (which btw even with stealth armor ECM does NOTHING to missile locks in line of sight, the control "Artemis" missiles were reduced in effectiveness every single time however).

Spoiler

Koniving, on 13 August 2014 - 05:00 AM, said:

From another chat where debating the effects of ECM and discovering that Stealth Armor isn't a jesus box either...

This one is written in pure story.

Raven 3-L + Archer 2R + Archer 5R. At this point in the story (where the debates about ECM shifted entirely into what happened that made it so much fun), the Raven 3-L was already killed.

Versus 2 future-tech (3060+ tech) Hunchback 4SPs with ECM, XL 350 engines, Endo Steel, and 12 ML each.

Koniving, on 13 August 2014 - 04:41 AM, said:

Oh, and the Archer 2R sucks so bad. Oh my god does that suck. It can't handle its own payload in selective fire. I fired 3 ML and ran, which generated 11 heat for 10 SHS. Immediately 1 SHS BLEW. It freaking blew up or melted, and I could only cool 9 heat after that. That poor thing struggled so damn hard. I wound up spending a lot of time trying to protect it from medium lasers constantly fired at 360 meters (which kept hitting and getting full damage despite being beyond max range, though chance to hit penalties kept going up for the ECM Hunchback 4SPs).

In the end, my Archer 5R was doing great. After knocking out the pilot of one 4SP, as part of the ECM functionality test I switched to IR (Thermal sensors) for the test and the prone, knocked out hunchback suddenly disappeared. I was remarking on that when the 350-engine-totting Hunchback without stealth armor ran up to me and disappeared during the movement as he put me in his ECM bubble with my IR turned on. The next turn I turned it back off only to see him 30 meters away where he said "Hi!" BAM, 12 medium lasers systematically fired, one at a time. Left leg. Left leg. Center torso. Center torso. Left torso. Right torso. Left arm. Left arm. Right torso. Head. Head. Right arm. Head. More shots, but the pilot was already ejected and his damaged pod crashed into a tree, killing him. To make it worse, the knocked out 4SP had woken up and from the prone position he raised one arm and fired. Head. Head. Center Torso. Center Torso. Head. Center Torso. The 5R was already dead but they kept firing.

Finally it was down to my 2R.

At the same time I had fired an LRM-20 at the prone Hunchback. Got many hits. But not enough. The prone Hunchback got up. The LRM-20 had fried another heatsink, which was because I generated 12 heat with only 9 functional heatsinks with the firing of a single weapon and no movement (there was 5 unsunken heat before). I was down to 8 heatsinks and unable to do anything except back up at this point. Firing again would easily have blown another heatsink. The Hunchback practically teleported in front of me, using a move called a "Charge," which involved using his XL 350 engine to its fullest extent, he was going in excess of 120 kph with his future tech hunchback. For fun (and screwed as I was), I said screw it, "My pilot panics." Fired both forward-facing ML at him. Both were misses.

I was expecting the hit during the firing sequence. He didn't reach me just yet. The physical attacks thing came up, the other Hunchback had come up beside me from behind and appeared out of nowhere. Kick to the leg!

My Archer 2R is stumbling.
BODY SLAM! Right hip and upper leg actuators critted. Mech is crippled. BAM! Slam on the ground. 5 piloting rolls were required. Failed the first one, epically screwed. Pilot blacked out for 10 seconds. The 2 Hunchbacks huddled around me. "Kick him while he's down!" It woke my pilot up though he got hurt again. I got up and turned around, which was a struggle considering. I made it, but only to find out that both arms are crippled. I have NO front-facing weapons. Jab! Punch! Punch! Hook! Knocked down again. I was spun around, and I'm like "Hey..." I get up this time no turning around.

Rear firing CT Medium Lasers. Pew! Center Torso. PEW! Head. Fried the armor. Crit to sensors. Crit to life support.

Bash, bash! Bash, bash! They kept punching me. Knocked down again (due to the broken leg), I get back up and again fire the rear lasers. Left torso. Right torso. Punches ensue. Knocked down. Got up again. Tried again. Center torso shot. Punch, broken laser. Punch, punch, punch and knocked down. Lost consciousness again. They started kicking me.

One Hunchback's foot goes through the rear center torso. Crits the Gyro. Crits the engine. Catastrophic engine failure results in an explosion. The result kills the non-Stealth armor Hunchback. The other Hunchback was impossible to repair even for a God Mode Scotty technician; so an even better God Mode Scotty was made and cheating every feasible thing, it still wasn't possible to salvage the mech as it was, so it took over 5 months after magically teleporting it into a mech factory to completely disassemble it and rebuild it as a standard Hunchback 4SP. Even then it wasn't fully functional. Super God Mode Scotty + factory + teleporting all the supplies + rebuilding it into a regular mech (as some of the future tech didn't exist yet) with 5 months and rebuilt from the ground up with a new skeleton and everything and BAM... still couldn't get it to work. Freaking, epic.

Why can't MWO be this fun?

And....despite getting completely beat the heck down in the most literal sense of the word possible (the two Hunchbacks punched and kicked the living crap out of my last mech), I'm excited about it! (Also, those Hunchbacks will never kick another mech to death ever again).

Can't say I get excited when I'm slaughtered here... though back in closed beta when MWO was a lot closer to Battletech I could.

Edited by Koniving, 15 August 2014 - 10:47 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mystere, on 15 August 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

Because they do not have anything else better to do?

the obvious answer.

Do love the usual defense... if someone dares not excoriate PGI ever post, every day, they must be a white knight!

Yet then I see conflicting arguments, that it's all horrible all the time, and yet people keep pouring in money endlessly..... which would only make sense....if it wasn't all bad, all the time. As, people are generally only going to spend money ON ENTERTAINMENT because they want to. No gun to anyones head.

Yes, the Founders, could say their initial purchase was made based off of expectations never fulfilled. But that is about it.

And tbh, only an idiot spends money on what a video game MAY be. This isn't a stock portfolio, where you invest in hopes of huge future rewards. It's a video game, a diversion. You pay for what it is, or you are, to be frank, a fool.

What people seem to be missing, is ATM I'm not even defending PGI, which has a LOT to deliver in the next few months to have a chance at coming close to their claims.

I'm commenting on the largely continuous, repetitive and monotonous idiocy (shockingly from most of the exact same people as has been for the last 2 years), innuendo and rumours that make up a goodly portion of the attacks.

A lot of "constructive criticism" that seems to be largely absent.... anything constructive.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 15 August 2014 - 10:49 AM.

[meteorol]

Sarlic, on 15 August 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Have a fun read here: http://mwomercs.com/...ers-look-at-it/

I had a fun read there when the thread was still active, and you kept on repeating the same argument which is simply not valid.

[Lightfoot]

CW is when players will form Clans and Merc units and then compete to see which unit is best. It's also been described that players would fight for control of non-historical planets for Faction points/rewards.

All of that will change the game if past experiences hold true. I think they will, if it is easy for players to communicate with each other and advertise current Unit challenges to rival Units. Such as, "Planet Nine MechWarriors, seeks 8v8, faction affiliation", etc. Then you click a button to chat about the particulars.

Should be fun.

[Bishop Steiner]

meteorol, on 15 August 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

I had a fun read there when the thread was still active, and you kept on repeating the same argument which is simply not valid.

yeah....anyone else sense a trend?

[Sarlic]

meteorol, on 15 August 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

I had a fun read there when the thread was still active, and you kept on repeating the same argument which is simply not valid.

Good for you. What else you want to hear? Do you even understand the fundamental basics of having a competitive enviroment? Dont bring up the crap we saw with the last tournament.

If you have experienced the launch of the Victor then shortly after what happened there you should get the point.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Yep. CW really needs to be an entirely different game that what we have now. Not saying that need to scrap what we have but I am saying that what we have needs to be considered "arcade mode".

CW needs to be on very large maps with multiple objectives that need to be captured and it needs to be a victory point model with respawns rather than the match going to whomever happens to get the first few kills early. Then it has to have a star map and meaningful battles. And.....and....and.....yeah well we know what it has to have.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Community Warfare won't deliver what the community wants or needs.
PGI hasn't been able to deliver content since production began they aren't going to suddenly magic assets and maps out their arse when it takes them half a year or more to create a single bug ridden geometry crap map.

CW will be nothing more than a java map that changes colors based on what PGI decide.
PGI have consistently failed to deliver on small promises and big ones.....community warfare will be no different to think otherwise....is ********.

Christ on a bike...we're getting a basic feature of guild/social unit creation 2 years...2 freaking years after "release" and it makes me sick to call it that.
This is a basic feature that games indie small developer or not have in from alpha and beta!!!!!!

I mean who builds shoddy UI's that prevent them from adding core features to a game? Really who does that?
Who then creates a worse UI that lacks basic conceptual features of a basic intuitive UI!

How long did it take for auto refill. .. another basic feature. And let's not get started on private lobbies......

IGP/PGI have had more than enough money to make and deliver a great detail rich and feature complete game a large chunk of which had come from the players.
It's a shame that the funds have been mismanaged and placed into other dead games and games not mech warrior related and it's a shame the studio management is too amateur and unbalanced that work on areas of the game have to stop to deliver maps or the clans

It's a clown show start to middle.
The end could not come swift enough to spare the IP the indignity of this development.

And I fully expect this thread to be closed and deleted as soon as Egomane is online for being too negative for GD :-p

Edited by DV McKenna, 15 August 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

If Community Warfare brings us a map that our fighting can influence for the Clan Invasion then there will be a big change in the game... We will actually have one instead of this constant Demo we've been fed for what 2-3 years now?

[Utilyan]

I think some folks secretly want planetside2 conquerable area. Rather then a webpage that's going to say ok these people won more games here.

A glorified scoreboard........a try hard's "competitive" mecca. If that's all that comes out, I won't give a rat's ass about CW.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Game looks cool, but no matter what they add, it will just be TDM.....every game, all the time...cuz the enemy cant win an objective with no living players....

And ive never seen any game that really adds any depth, immersion or any kind of truly war style feel in their game...always simplistic TDM style matches with a lone circle we must stand in to make it ours...

[Joseph Mallan]

Utilyan, on 15 August 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

I think some folks secretly want planetside2 conquerable area. Rather then a webpage that's going to say ok these people won more games here.

A glorified scoreboard........a try hard's "competitive" mecca. If that's all that comes out, I won't give a rat's ass about CW.

Is not why I joined this circus.

[trajan331]

I really should stop reading the forums! You are all so full of doom and gloom! I love this game so far. It isn't perfect but, it is a damn fun game! Come one who is with me? I joined the forums back when the game started but, only started playing a few weeks ago. Had to upgrade an eight year old PC. So far I love it!

[BLOOD WOLF]

I love the idea of this thread but lets keep it objective and make it an actual Logical discussion.

For startes this is a "what I feel sorta thread" just like Sandpit's MM thread, which he jumped to all sorts of conclusions and was bashing the MM before it had a chance to defend itself.

I see that is whats happening here. it nice to speculate but at least reserve final judgment after we have seen the phases of CW. What sense or logic does it make to have a final decision based on what you think or feel on something you can not test. Have any of you heard the scientific method?, please use it. Right now we are in the hypothesis stage and we don't have a real basis. Founders should be happy because they are at least getting "what was promised", So take that for what it is. Don't be a fool and run the mouth, because if it is the opposite of your claim then that makes you look bad.

It is okay to be skeptical but let that be that.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 15 August 2014 - 02:34 PM.

[Cest7]

Sarlic, on 15 August 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

--> Lose the current paymodel. It's disgusting bad.
--> Fire the lead designer. Hire a properly one.
--> DO NOT make cash grabbing decisions. Instead make this works from two sides.
--> Priortise things right. No more MC mechs untill you have a stable client. Client first then you work on content.

With IGP holding the reigns they will drive this game into the ground before CW even gets to the table.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Cest7, on 15 August 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

With IGP holding the reigns they will drive this game into the ground before CW even gets to the table.

somebody said that about a year ago.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cest7, on 15 August 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

With IGP holding the reigns they will drive this game into the ground before CW even gets to the table.

been hearing that mantra and seeing your siggy banner for near to 2 years, in one form or another.

If you say it often enough, do you think it will make it come true?

[MonkeyCheese]

Was going to read this thread until I seen the "your naive" in the title...

[ApolloKaras]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 August 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

been hearing that mantra and seeing your siggy banner for near to 2 years, in one form or another.

If you say it often enough, do you think it will make it come true?

I dunno... They've been saying that the game is going to die now for a while.

CW NOT OUT? *crickets
3rd person? PGI LIED MWO DIED
Cool shots? #SAVEMWO
Phoenix mechs CW STILL NOT OUT? N.O.P.E.
The Reddit r/MWO PR disaster? #moregamedying (and yes that was a disaster, however this is for a different thread)



If you were to ask me whats more damaging the Devs or the community I would give the blame to both equally... Yet through all that, we're still here, and game is still going. Look @ how many clan mechs there are. PGI is doing just fine.

*EDIT Forgot the NOPE movement

Edited by Saxie, 15 August 2014 - 02:58 PM.