421 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

Sandpit, on 16 August 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

No, you don't want to accept that PGI is wrong, lying, incompetent, or poor at managing their resources.


because somehow doing it for free and in your spare time translates to "easier" than a professional studio with millions of dollars to work with.

Oh, ok. He said that and quoted my hint for what company I work for... Thought he was saying my company is just a bunch of freebie mods and I was gonna write off this whole conversation...

[Sandpit]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 August 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

People who do what PGI's map department does but dont get paid

That is exactly what I am saying.


I see what this has to do with and wow man. This has nothing to do with lying or being incompetent and I guarantee they know more about what they do than you.

That is besides the point

No, that's EXACTLY the point. Whatever the reason behind it, there's no reason it should cost that much to produce a single map after you've been doing it for 3 years.

cdlord, on 16 August 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

Oh, ok. He said that and quoted my hint for what company I work for... Thought he was saying my company is just a bunch of freebie mods and I was gonna write off this whole conversation...

No, he's saying your company doesn't face the problems that PGI does so it's "different" somehow

[BLOOD WOLF]

Oh boy, Just astounding

[PappySmurf]

Look its another she said he said she said outcome to a poorly worded topic and posts.

[BLOOD WOLF]

If Maps Cost 250K, Why Not Pay Mwll 100K For All Theirs. Or 250K.(that is the topic) so leave out the PGI slander and keep it at that.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 16 August 2014 - 12:52 PM.

[Haakon Magnusson]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 August 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Oh boy, Just astounding

I love you man... Don't ever stop (sarcasm fyi)

[BLOOD WOLF]

Haakon Magnusson, on 16 August 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

I love you man... Don't ever stop (sarcasm fyi)

and they don't ever think, but here we are. No I was joking, Love you to

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 16 August 2014 - 12:54 PM.

[Sandpit]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 August 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

If Maps Cost 250K, Why Not Pay Mwll 100K For All Theirs. Or 250K.(that is the topic) so leave out the PGI slander and keep it at that.

show me anywhere I've "slandered" PGI

and FYI, it's libel in this case, not slander.

MAPS COST $250,000 BECAUSE THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH PGI'S PROCESS. THAT'S NOT LIBEL OR SLANDER.

That's people who have experience, know better, and otherwise understand beyond "PGI said so" telling you, and all the others, that PGI needs to fix their process if it is costing them that much to produce a map. So stop with your "ehr meh gerd someone said something that wasn't postively gushing about PGI!" propaganda.

[BLOOD WOLF]

I dont think they even cost that much on their own, might be other cost.

Also I have heard and watched other developers views on making assest for their games. Since Star wars Jedi outcast. I always check out the development cycles.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 16 August 2014 - 12:57 PM.

[Noesis]

How about not being a douchebag to try and make a point propaganda?

Oh I forgot for a moment, wants to take over the world. Carry on, sorry.

#futility

Edited by Noesis, 16 August 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Its not propaganda, its called learning how to think and correctly asses something.

Also besides the cost you don't know anything about real development or making a map for one. Yet you say what you say, same as others. Wonder why it can take so long and cost so much do the research or learn firsthand. Instead of running the mouth and calling people incompetent, especially when the things that come out you mouth and Noesis(especially him) sound like Biased assumptions based on nothing,

Also Douchbag? comeon bro. what are you 15?

I do not think that 250 was the height, the cost is probably much lower but I would bet their might be other factors. That being said the cost and the time to make and finish are not tied together. Unless you have more people working on it but then again to much is a problem.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 16 August 2014 - 01:05 PM.

[Sandpit]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 August 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

I dont think they even cost that much on their own, might be other cost.

Also I have heard and watched other developers views on making assest for their games. Since Star wars Jedi outcast. I always check out the development cycles.

????

ok.....
smh
Bryan specifically stated "$250,000 to develop a map"

wow..... what was it you said earlier.....?

oh yea...

"astounding"

[Noesis]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 August 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

Its not propaganda, its called learning how to think and correctly asses something.

Also besides the cost you don't know anything about real development or making a map for one. Yet you say what you say, same as others. Wonder why it can take so long and cost so much do the research or learn firsthand.

Sandpit could do it in his basement though, and all with a roll of gaffer tape, it's simple, didnt you know?

[C E Dwyer]

Sandpit, on 16 August 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

I have a MUCH better idea

If maps cost $250,000 and take 2-4 months

Fix your process. There's no way in hell that any reasonably intelligent adult believes it has to cost $250,000 for every single map produced. If it DOES? Then that's PGI's problem, not mine. Act like a professional company that knows wtf you're doing instead of an indi developer who is programming their first game ever. You got "15 years experience" then act like it and produce like it.

This and only this.

PGI claim costs of a company that's of top standard, yet they produce the kind of work students churn out in their parents basement.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Sandpit, on 16 August 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

????

ok.....
smh
Bryan specifically stated "$250,000 to develop a map"

wow..... what was it you said earlier.....?

oh yea...

"astounding"

I know, I heard and seen when he said that, but try to keep up. Their might be other factors, that is all i was saying. The map might include different aspects(of work). I don't think the map itself is actually that high.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 16 August 2014 - 01:08 PM.

[PappySmurf]

If Brian would have said $25,000 for a new map I might have believed him.

Edited by PappySmurf, 16 August 2014 - 01:07 PM.

[Ph30nix]

From my understanding PGI frankly wastes alot of time in their map making processes
http://www.penny-arc...am-creates-worl

Don't get me wrong i LOVE their attention to detail (with how long they take and how many graphic artists they have it better be pretty)

But at this point they should have a formula developed so they would already KNOW if a map meets most of their expected critera. for example

Every aspect they say is very important in each map they should already know what stats are acceptable and which aren't.
This should be something that they could even plug some numbers into a damn excel worksheet and figure out acceptable dimensions for a map based on the basic geometric shape they are looking for and the type of gameplay they are expecting.
They should have all the numbers they could ever need to calculate any possible scenario they want to include.
I was about to go into a lot of details on this but if someone reading this doesnt already understand my meaning they never will. The most i will say is that the entire design of maps that are well designed and balanced is nothing more then alot of numbers and calculations. From there it is just a matter of making it look pretty.

If they haven't figured this out and created a map maker for at least use in house to accomplish this then they have wasted a lot of time and money.

oh and frankly given enough data i could quickly and easily produce a damn excel file that if you tell it general shape of the map you want, what size you want and play style you want it could tell you where to place cover, how large the cover should be, where "main paths" should go, what incline a path should be to encourage/discourage its use by a mech type (or to increase/decrease travel times) etc etc.
or flip side you can put in information on your current map and it will tell you how balanced it is for each factor you are looking at. Even advise how to improve it.

Edited by Ph30nix, 16 August 2014 - 01:17 PM.

[Sandpit]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 August 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

Its not propaganda, its called learning how to think and correctly asses something.

Also besides the cost you don't know anything about real development or making a map for one.

yes, yes it is.
Want to retract your "slander" comment yet?

No, YOU don't know anything, don't place YOUR limitations on me.

So tell me nostradamus, since you know so much about me personally, my professional history, and my life experiences, just what exactly do I know, don't I know, and just exactly what have I and have I not done in my decades on this planet.

Do you understand why I'm calling you ignorant now?

You know NOTHING about me, what I've done, where I've worked, or anything else about me yet YOU are the one making unfounded, unconfirmed, and ignorant libelous statements about me

[Ph30nix]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 August 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

If Maps Cost 250K, Why Not Pay Mwll 100K For All Theirs. Or 250K.(that is the topic) so leave out the PGI slander and keep it at that.

oh and they cost 250k due to fuzzy accounting and inefficient design process.

[Sandpit]

Cathy, on 16 August 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

This and only this.

PGI claim costs of a company that's of top standard, yet they produce the kind of work students churn out in their parents basement.

No no, that's slander doncha' know?

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 August 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

I know, I heard and seen when he said that, but try to keep up. Their might be other factors, that is all i was saying. The map might include different aspects(of work). I don't think the map itself is actually that high.

no sh*t sherlock. If you'll notice (here I'll even type it slow just for you again)

IF IT TAKES PGI $250,000 and FOUR MONTHS TO PRODUCE A SINGLE MAP THEN THEY NEED TO REDEFINE THEIR PROCESS BECAUSE IT SHOULD NOT COST THAT MUCH

There, are you all caught up now slick?