421 replies to this topic

[Brizna]

The lack of maps is one of the bigest issues this game has. The game need more maps, moding tools would really be the cheapest way to get those and sure there are legal issues to take care of but really the only real barrier to get that on is the will to get it done. Now if PGI wishes to pass on this wonderfull oportunity to get a lot of the work this games needs for free they are well within their right, and I'm not gonna ***** about it. But the game still needs more maps. Reuse maps, make little changes that cost far less than 250K to get done and tested but change them menaingfully.
Yesterday I was just in the mood to see what could be done with the worst map in this game (IMO), the infamous River City, and I was surprised how easily it could be vastly improved.

Spoiler

Sure it's easier said than done, and there are obvious palces where the map requires work but surely that wouldn't cost 250K but much much less.

[Dawnstealer]

I'll white knight PGI on a lot of topics, and I do think this community can be a bit naive on what goes into making a game like this, but on the subject of maps...

They really need to pick up the pace or outsource to a group that can.

[Bront]

Alreech, on 16 August 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

Why should they do it ?
PGI decided to generate their profit with selling Mechs & Cockpit Items, so putting money in new maps is from a economic point of view wasted money.
Selling maps is a no go, because it divides the playerbase. PGI can't make money from maps like they do it with Mechs and Cockpit Items, so any $ spend on a map is a $ that doesn't generate profit.

I'm not against profit, a company what doesn't generate profit will not least long.

You need Free content to sell premium content. The more free content they have, the more they can sell the premium content.

New maps keep players interested, and provide variety. I understand why they aren't cranking them out 1-2 a month (at one point they were putting them out about every 60-90 days, which was good enough), and once they get a good base, offering some variety in encounters on existing maps (Think Canyon Flood, Crimson Snow, or even HPG in a variety of environments) means you've got a good stable for CW.

Still, they don't quite have that base now, and the effects aren't as dynamic as they could be. When you've gotten to a point where you can drop and regularly say it's been a while since you saw that map, they've done their job.

[CoffiNail]

Mister Blastman, on 21 August 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

This map was made by someone for free. It even has stuff like destructible trees. Look how beautiful it is.

Kagoshima actually was a Dev based map made by Sangressi (I know I have his name spelt wrong :/) It was a very good map, but it was not a community map.

There were however A LOT of VERY HIGH QUALITY community maps for MWLL. I mostly finished one and had three in the wood work. My GalCom Ancient Demise had a half dozen well made maps, our fallen brother (Khan) Duffanichta had a dozen or so maps, most were very good quality and he had a few very unique maps. There were maybe 10-15 total community mappers for MWLL over its dev cycle. 90% of those maps were equally comparable in quality to the official MWLL dev made maps.

Community Mapping would bring this game to a whole new level TBH. Yes, they may need to assign/hire a couple QA for the maps, or maybe get a community group of QA to test, rate, and recommend for injection community fan made maps... Or just allow a option of allowing custom maps or just official maps.

In CoffiNail's opinion, Community Mapping should be put in to the pipe work, it would be very beneficial to PGI and the community by greatly increasing the map numbers.

[CDLord HHGD]

Almond Brown, on 21 August 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

Well talk is cheap. Any map made outside would need the same level of graphic leveling as the PGI one. One 1024 x 768 render don't count. It will require many available renders for all Graphic setting levels, etc etc. Stating "a week" to do one, right, sounds pretty fishy...

Btw, I will be landing on Mars next week. The "private sector" sucks at such stuff. Who needs Engineers, Rocket Scientists and 2.5 billion dollars. I built my spaceship in the basement... LOL!

It's all relative. I can't do a map personally but I am in software design and $250k is too much no matter how you slice it. I was looking at the cars in Crimson and they look too tiny btw... Wonder if they are placeholders for larger, more detailed and destructible assets....

Streamlining the map creation process should be pretty high on the priority list even if the maps themselves aren't. $250k is indicative of resource mis-managment. No one element should cost that much except for the licensing of the engine and IP maybe.

[verybad]

Looking at some of the MWLL maps, it looks like most of them are using Crsis game content for everything but the mechs. That would have to be removed from them, leaving them as nothing but height map which isn't much help for conversion.

Nothing against the MWLL work, it's great, it just would not really be that great of a bonus for MWO that some people seem to think it would be.

[verybad]

Mister Blastman, on 21 August 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

This map was made by someone for free. It even has stuff like destructible trees. Look how beautiful it is.

Most of the assets in that map were made by people being paid by CryTek.

[CoffiNail]

verybad, on 21 August 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Most of the assets in that map were made by people being paid by CryTek.

... Most of ALL the maps were cobbled together pieces of Crysis assets. They did have a few MWLL only models and assets, but a lot of it all was actual crysis content.

[Heeden]

I'm still puzzled as to why all the people who miss MW:LL or think it looks vastly better than MW:O aren't playing it.

[CoffiNail]

Heeden, on 21 August 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

I'm still puzzled as to why all the people who miss MW:LL or think it looks vastly better than MW:O aren't playing it.

Because it is a dead mod, and by that I mean there will never be any growth. CGBI does play it periodically, but for the most we play MWO, no one needs to buy anything and it tends to install a lot easier. MWLL is a very well done mod, but MWO is the current MechSim, and it is in constant development, more people know about it and even though it has a learning curve, it pales to MWLL.

Plus I no longer have my buttons mapped properly and cannot find a proper fit, so my abilities in MWLL are lacking.

[Mister Blastman]

CoffiNail, on 21 August 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

MWLL is a very well done mod, but MWO is the current MechSim, and it is in constant development, more people know about it and even though it has a learning curve, it pales to MWLL.

That's an understatement. MWO is checkers as MW:LL is Chess. -or- MWO is pong as MW:LL is StarCraft.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 21 August 2014 - 09:44 AM.

[CoffiNail]

Mister Blastman, on 21 August 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

That's an understatement. MWO is checkers as MW:LL is Chess. -or- MWO is pong as MW:LL is StarCraft.

This is very true. MWLL is a lot more difficult to master than MWO, and very satisfying when you do... Plus ELEMENTALS! That was what sold me on MWLL

Good days. Errodien, Nightcrawler and I as Battle Armour, trolling the hell out of Mechs.

[Foksuh]

Mister Blastman, on 21 August 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

This map was made by someone for free. It even has stuff like destructible trees. Look how beautiful it is.

It's pretty in it's own way, though obviously not up to date or in similar sort of detail than MWO is.
Still, it showcases several things that were done better. The size of the map is big, the mechs move smoothly, you're not geting stuck or glitching/rubberbanding like mad.

Even the action itself feels more intense.. there's speed to it. Maybe it's also in part because people don't have to worry so much about dying.
People tend to play more cautiously when it's just one life.. but when you know you can just jump into another mech/vehicle and join the action again, it's more action packed battle and fighting over objectives is a real fight.
MWO's battles are very short, usually decisive engagements. You can often tell which side is gonna lose early on, even before the battle starts.

Note how much heat the mech also creates when it's moving at top speed

[Mister Blastman]

Foksuh, on 21 August 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

It's pretty in it's own way, though obviously not up to date or in similar sort of detail than MWO is.
Still, it showcases several things that were done better. The size of the map is big, the mechs move smoothly, you're not geting stuck or glitching/rubberbanding like mad.

Even the action itself feels more intense.. there's speed to it. Maybe it's also in part because people don't have to worry so much about dying.
People tend to play more cautiously when it's just one life.. but when you know you can just jump into another mech/vehicle and join the action again, it's more action packed battle and fighting over objectives is a real fight.
MWO's battles are very short, usually decisive engagements. You can often tell which side is gonna lose early on, even before the battle starts.

Note how much heat the mech also creates when it's moving at top speed

Well I think that's a common misconception. Most people think that because MW:LL has respawn, the gameplay will be more spammy. The opposite is true, however.

If you ever want to get in the bigger 'mechs, you must not die. You need to get kills, get assists and then manage to make it back to base and sell the 'mech you are currently using to afford the bigger, better, game-changing stuff.

MW:LL did a fantastic job balancing the spam players with those who were cautious, skilled and beneficial to their team as a whole.

I myself was born in the 1970s so any game I've seen in the last decade is good enough for me, graphically speaking. I've stopped caring at this point. I still play System Shock 1 among other old dos games for crying out loud.

[Foksuh]

Mister Blastman, on 21 August 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

Well I think that's a common misconception. Most people think that because MW:LL has respawn, the gameplay will be more spammy. The opposite is true, however.

If you ever want to get in the bigger 'mechs, you must not die. You need to get kills, get assists and then manage to make it back to base and sell the 'mech you are currently using to afford the bigger, better, game-changing stuff.

MW:LL did a fantastic job balancing the spam players with those who were cautious, skilled and beneficial to their team as a whole.

I myself was born in the 1970s so any game I've seen in the last decade is good enough for me, graphically speaking. I've stopped caring at this point. I still play System Shock 1 among other old dos games for crying out loud.

Maybe it's a common misconception, though I wouldn't call it spammy, but I enjoyed LL's action more just because there was more action.
It wasn't one death and game over, move along. You could still get back, situation could still change, team could still fight on and get objectives back. That and the fact that I could jump into a tank or harass mechs in battle armor.
In MWO, it's over after one engagement more often than not.. or sometimes even before that.


As for graphics, it's always nice to have a pretty game, but pretty game doesn't equal with latest technological advancements. Style itself, the whole style, is also a big deal. MWO can do good looking mechs and there's plenty of detail to stuff.. but I still can't get over the fact that we're dealing with artificially limited view ranges, like with the heat and nightvision and even the silly blurryness you encounter in many maps that makes it difficult to see things at a distance ;P
...along with the crapload of other issues, that is.

[KraftySOT]

This.

If you wanna know why. Its because you knuckleheads keep paying their salaries buying clan mechs and throwing away thousands or hundreds of dollars.

300 people with deep pockets keep this entire game going. And none of them are actually Battletech Fans, so we end up with a horrible travesty of the intellectual property formerly of FASA.

Still waiting on Megamek, in first person.

[kuangmk11]

cdlord, on 21 August 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

I was looking at the cars in Crimson and they look too tiny btw... Wonder if they are placeholders for larger, more detailed and destructible assets....

The cars are 'correctly' sized about 3 meters long, I even converted one to be drivable, The doorways on most of the buildings are only about 5 feet tall though. Its mostly the perspective you get in game I think. You don't really get a sense of size.

[CDLord HHGD]

This made my cry a little....

Quote

It launched with six maps, four game types, and 26 weapons divvied up between nine classes. 358 patches later, Team Fortress 2 wouldn’t recognize its former self in the mirror. Its official map list has ballooned to dozens, drawing on endless community talent.

[Xetelian]

250,000 sounds way to high...

[Sandpit]

Xetelian, on 26 August 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

250,000 sounds way to high...

that's because it is.

It wasn't 3 years ago when they had to build every single piece of it from scratch, but after 3 years of development if it's still costing that much, PGI has a lot of work to do in order to streamline that process, get someone in charge who knows how to organize, and get some project leads who know how ot manage.