74 replies to this topic

[Jamjor]

I am running into a bit of confusion... I now have acquired a Jager S - 3 AC5's and 2 ML. I have been reccomended double heat sinks... but now that I have purchased that, it will not allow me to place them in the Jager's legs, as there are 2 slots per leg and the heatsinks require 3 slots..

Also confused on how much armor to allocate to which parts... any help?

[Modo44]

That is true, double heatsinks on IS mechs do not fit in legs. Use them on locations with ammo or weapons to protect against critical hits. When a location gets crit, there is a roll for which part gets blown up, and you typically want to lose some cooling over getting an ammo explosion or losing a weapon.

As for armor, start with full everywhere, then strip some off the legs to get the nearest half ton of available weight. You can go as low as 1 on the back, but you want something in the 10-20 range unless you are really good at not showing your ass to the enemy. Even some competitive pilots recommend sticking with around 10 as the minimum as it allows you to push forward more.

[Jamjor]

Thanks.. I am very weak right now... I die super quick. I stacked armor up on most parts, and bought endo steel... but I die super quick. Is that normal, or is there a solution?

[HlynkaCG]

As far as Armor is concerned, I consider 300 points or so to be reasonable for a fire support Jager, anything less is getting into "Glass Cannon" territory. I use 320 (same armor as my hunchbacks) as my baseline, and then shift 8 points from each arm to the torso. The Jager's arm hit-boxes are rather small and I find that I rarely loose one without loosing the torso as well.

ETA
On a un-upgraded JM-6S with the stock engine you will have 29.0 tonnes to play with.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 16 August 2014 - 11:19 PM.

[Jamjor]

300 points of armor... I have maxed everything on each part of the mech and now Its at 240.. how can I get any more than that?

[Modo44]

Jamjor, on 16 August 2014 - 11:16 PM, said:

Is that normal, or is there a solution?

It is normal for a new player. Multiple skills come together to let you not die instantly:

Stay in cover or close to cover. This requires some map knowledge. Being out in the open, especially but not only without friendly ECM, is a recipe for an instagib. Even just poking out in the same spot over and over will get a sniper locked in on you. While pushing forward is often important, it is also prudent to not have the W key stuck all the time. When the enemy is walking out in the open, you want to shoot them from safe cover.

Stay with your team. If you are alone, you are easy to swarm, and everyone naturally focuses fire. Again, instagib. Even flanking moves are best done with a friend or two.

Roll damage. Mechs have separate armor and structure on all locations. Twist your torso to the side after firing, and twist/look around a lot in general. Firing, not admiring -- you only need to look at the target while aiming or holding lasers/LRMs; every other weapon allows you to twist away immediately after firing. Twisting makes it much harder to aim for your squishy parts.

Set up your mech with shield locations. Have an empty/weakly armed arm or torso, and put that out there for the enemy to shoot first. Use a standard engine if you can to have even more of a shield. Good pilots will show the enemy their unused arms or even torsos before exposing their main weapons. Even when that is not possible (the Jager has its main weapons on the arms), just making the enemy strip all your locations of armor before blowing something off will greatly increase your survivability.

Do not have too much ammo, nor ammo in the torso unless you can C.A.S.E. it while using a standard engine. Ammo can cook off violently, so you want it as far away from crucial locations as possible. When using a standard engine, C.A.S.E. channels explosions so that they do not transfer from the side (which you can lose and live) to the center (instagib). Most pilots hide ammo in the arms or legs, and put heatsinks around it when possible to protect against crits.

Edited by Modo44, 16 August 2014 - 11:33 PM.

[HlynkaCG]

Jamjor, on 16 August 2014 - 11:16 PM, said:

Thanks.. I am very weak right now... I die super quick. I stacked armor up on most parts, and bought endo steel... but I die super quick. Is that normal, or is there a solution?

Jamjor, on 16 August 2014 - 11:22 PM, said:

300 points of armor... I have maxed everything on each part of the mech and now Its at 240.. how can I get any more than that?

The Jager S has very little armor when you first buy it, You need to free up some weight before you can add more.

[Jamjor]

Ok thanks... As I earn XP and money, how can I get more armor?

[STEF_]

Jamjor, on 16 August 2014 - 11:16 PM, said:

Thanks.. I am very weak right now... I die super quick. I stacked armor up on most parts, and bought endo steel... but I die super quick. Is that normal, or is there a solution?

Don't worry.
As long as you pilot a mech, you can improve it spending xp. The same mech behave very very differently if it is only just bought, or if it is mastered.
Of course, you need gxp to buy the right modules too.
Good hunting, mechwarrior!

Edit only to remember you that if you want to master a chassis, you need 3 of them.
So it is good to start farm C-bill to buy 2 jaggers more.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 16 August 2014 - 11:47 PM.

[HlynkaCG]

My recommendation would be to go into the mechlab and take everything off the mech, then add the armor.

I use the following for pretty much all my Jagers...

Head: 16 points
Center Torso: 56 points front, 12 back
Sides Torsos: 46 points front, 8 back
Arms: 24 points each
Legs: 40 points each
Total: 320 points


This should leave you with 29.0 tonnes left to spend on weapons, ammo, and heatsinks. 32 if you upgraded the chassis to endo-steel.

ETA:
Additional armor is bought with CBills just like any other part.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 16 August 2014 - 11:45 PM.

[Ruccus]

I'd suggest something like this JM6-S build to start. You're basically stripping out the two AC2s to add a lot more armour, ammunition, heat sinks, and an extra pair of medium lasers.

[Shuruga]

The above suggestions are pretty solid for starters.

Nevertheless I would also like to point out that of the available Jagermech variants, the JM-6DD is severely underrated. You can pack a 280 XL Engine, 2 Large Pulse Lasers, 6 MGs, AMS, maximum armor, and sufficient ammo and heat sinks in there. It is one of the most fun builds to play and is my personal XP/cash cow. Just remember not to brawl and only walk in when the big guys have taken off some of that armor. For brawling, I use a build with 2 LBX/AC10 and 4 Medium Pulse Lasers which is also good and can be run on all Jagers.

I actually started out with the Raven 3L and with the Jager JM-6S as my first mechs.

Have fun
Shuruga

[Modo44]

Jamjor, on 16 August 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

Ok thanks... As I earn XP and money, how can I get more armor?

Remove some ammo or weapons. The same mech tonnage limit is used for all armor and equipment. Armor is cheap and light, but the tonnage adds up when you can take 300 or 400 points.

It is a good practice to strip any newly bought mech, and maximize+adjust (front vs back) the armor. That gives you a baseline for how much stuff you can really put on the mech in a decent build. Stripping more than ~10% of maximum armor is generally not done, as it results in an extremely squishy mech.

Edited by Modo44, 17 August 2014 - 12:20 AM.

[HlynkaCG]

Modo44, on 17 August 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

Stripping more than ~10% of maximum armor is generally not done, as it results in an extremely squishy mech.

Not really no, it depends on the mech's hitboxes. For instance a Jager's arms should have approximately half of whatever the side torso has. This is because shots fired at a Jager's arm are more likely to hit the torso than the arm itself, as such you almost always loose the torso before the arm. Any armor that was remaining on that arm when the torso blows was wasted tonnage .

[Modo44]

HlynkaCG, on 17 August 2014 - 12:37 AM, said:

Not really no, it depends on the mech's hitboxes.

Yes, on all mechs. If you point the Jager's arms down while twisting, you are virtually guaranteed to take arm before torso damage. This mech can tank like a boss with standard engines, and even XL builds can be surprisingly hard to take down if the pilot knows the mech.

[Wintersdark]

Jamjor, on 16 August 2014 - 11:22 PM, said:

300 points of armor... I have maxed everything on each part of the mech and now Its at 240.. how can I get any more than that?

Armor has weight. What's happening is you've used available tonnage with weapons/engines, and thus cannot carry more armor.

Strip the mech of everything. Increase armor to maximum, with 12 side torso and 16 center torso on the rear first, then max the front. The overall maximums for each side torso and center torso are shared between the back and front.

Then add your engine, then add weapons/heat sinks with remaining tonnage.

[dragnier1]

Not sure if it's been mentioned (lazy to read ) but if you click on the links others put in their posts it will load up a '3rd party' mech builder that everyone uses to design their mechs. Use that website (it's called smurfy) to conceptualize your mech before you spend actuall cbills in the mechlab. If you're in need of ideas to referrence, try http://www.mechspecs.com/forum/.

[Hamish McPiton]

2nd on the Smurfy link. You have to read the mechspecs.com subforum on builds for the S. I like the 2 AC10 4 ML build myself - it's a stone killer.
Or I still like to run the Quad AC2 - even with the heat and recent nerf it's still is a great build.
Just equip cool shot X2 for times you need to keep blasting when hot.

Edited by Hamish McPiton, 17 August 2014 - 05:44 AM.

[Davegt27]

[color=#222222]Not to tell you what to do but don't get a Jager, I am on my 2nd month in this game and to give an example I died 34 times in one day. The thing is a death trap. I decided to suck it up and get the Jager up to master and that allowed me to go buy a smaller engine so I could pack more ammo. The Ballistic (AC weapons) will sure get people’s attention, they will either duck or waltz over and pound you into the ground. Laser weapons are what I call whispering death you can hit someone with a large laser and they hardly notice [/color]

[color=#222222]I could on in on about this thing [/color]
[color=#222222]Get a clan Mech any clan Mech[/color]


[color=#222222]Davegt27[/color]

[Wrathful-Khan]

My first purchase was a Hunchback-4G. It was okaaaay, but after 50 matches I decided that my with my love of Autocannons I should upgun to a Jager. I bought the JM6-S and after a small adjustment period, never looked back! (Indeed I now own every Jager variant and never drove that hunch again)

I see you saying you're dying easily? I can understand that, the as Jager is regarded as a bit of a glass cannon. Therfore, you need to play to your strength and learn to shoot. What it lacks in armour it makes up for in raw firepower. Most opponents will lose their will to resist pretty quickly if they're getting plinked for 20-30 points dead in the CT every couple of seconds.

Here is my recommended starter build: Its best kept at medium range.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9c1883786562150

Now, many people will recommend two AC-20s and scoff at the usefulness of the 10s. In my opinion the faster reload time on the 10s means they're a little more forgiving when it comes to missed shots while still putting out comparable DPS. The extra weight also allows a standard engine, which will increase survivability and give you a little leeway to brawl if it comes to that. A good all round machine to learn the ropes with.

Happy Hunting - May you always hit the CT!