74 replies to this topic

[TercieI]

Spheroid, on 20 August 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

All ballistic and energy weapons do full damage out to their optimal range. Beyond that the damage falls to zero at 2x optimal.

For example an AC-10's listed range is 450 meters. At that distance it does 10 damage. At 675 meters it does 5 damage.

Gauss rifle is an exception. It does damage out to triple range.

[JC Daxion]

Maybe i missed it, But i have to ask, why everyone recommended the Jager that didn't come with the XL-260 as the first one.. To me, all the builds i see people are always saying XL the thing,, So why wouldn't people say, Buy the one with the XL first?


While i never played a Jager outside of 1 match.. I bought it just for the XL for a couple of my ravens.


I know it is to late, But i do have to wonder why people recommended it as a first heavy. (first mech?) To me it doesn't teach the basics of torso twisting with sheild arms, and they have pretty powerful load outs.


I'd of thought a thunder bolt, or A cataphract would of been a much better first heavy choice. But at any rate.. It is just something that struck me as odd.


To the OP, Hope it all is working out for ya, so GL!

[TercieI]

JC Daxion, on 21 August 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

Maybe i missed it, But i have to ask, why everyone recommended the Jager that didn't come with the XL-260 as the first one.. To me, all the builds i see people are always saying XL the thing,, So why wouldn't people say, Buy the one with the XL first?

To quote myself on page 1:

Terciel1976, on 16 August 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

I'd go with something like this. It's just under 8MM c-bills since it uses a lot of the parts that come with the chassis. It's a bit ammo light, but that's the cost of the STD engine. There is the "hidden cost" that you'll want to rip the Ferro-Fibrous out at some point when you add in an XL engine and bigger&better guns, but for a starting Jagermech, it's solid, relatively survivable and cheap.

EDIT: I'd like to add that if you love the S, there's a case to be made for never buying the DD. The A is more different and the Firebrand carries dual gauss/dual 20 very well. So if you decide you love JM6s and want to splash real life $ on the Firebrand, that's something to consider. The FB also comes with the XL280, which is an excellent and versatile engine. I personally hate the XL260 that comes with the DD and drives up the price, because it's the same weight as the XL265. I actually sold the one from my JM6-DD. (Full disclosure, I have them all, including two Firebrands)

The XL260 is a flaming poop of an engine. I sold mine immediately because it's directly inferior to the XL265 (and I'm a whit obsessive). I basically said "Ok, I'll just buy an XL265 when the build calls for it." Oddly, it never has. The XL255 (own 4 of those) and XL280 (6 of those), due to "the rule of 25s" and the similar lousiness of the XL250 and XL275 have always shown themselves to be superior. I may find the perfect build that needs the XL265 (one of my very faves runs the odd XL285), but I haven't yet.

And the S can do everything you really want the DD to do* cheaper and several things the DD can't.

*dual 20, dual gauss, dual 10, triple (U)5

Edited by Terciel1976, 21 August 2014 - 09:45 AM.

[Spheroid]

@JC My Jager-S and A are both standard engine builds. Jagers don't need XLs. People are recommending the S for simple economic reasons.

You get a solid build that can always be improved later. With the DD you may not like the UAC-5s and you have the additional expense of ferro removal.

[JC Daxion]

ahh.. Perhaps, But i did not see that other post about the engine. I did buy that mech for the exact reason to use it for the engine in my ravens, It was the cheapest way to get an XL engine that i could use in two of my raven builds, the 2x and 4x, i use it.. I even used it in a Catapult build as well. While i guess the xl265 would be better (IMO not for the cost) Neither build gives me enough space to squeeze in a XL-275, nor did i think the extra speed was worth what i had to drop for them, I needed that extra ton believe it or not.

But let's be serrious, to call the XL-260 flaming poop that is a bit of a stretch. 132.4 verse 134.9 in my raven or If you are using it in say a heavy, or medium, you are barely getting over +1 KPH out of it.. I really can't think of any time when i said,,, If only i had +1-2 KPH faster i would of won!


Basically my thought is the XL260 is way more flexible than the XL-280.. Though perhaps you could say the XL-275 is more worth it but then you would need to spend another 8m just to get it, and then buy 3 jags, which for a newbie is just not that easy to do, i use a few builds on some mechs, that the engine works.. From an economical stand point, getting a mech, with an XL engine you can use in 5 other mechs,, is just a good buy.. verse shelling out the 4.3m for just a single engine.. that was really my only point.

And who knows when a mech might come along and have an XL-260 as an engine cap.. Just like the 275 cap, that leaves the 280's with the same weight not an option..

all that said.. From the economic side, buying the XL jager first, gives you more flexibility, when you buy the other 2, because you need the other two to get to elite right, and you can try playing around with XL and STD builds with just your basic engines you get from both mechs, and gives you a ton more flexibility as you master and play with load outs on your first 3 mechs.. that was really my only point. Just another point of view.. that is all.

cheers

Edited by JC Daxion, 21 August 2014 - 11:25 AM.

[Wrathful-Khan]

The S is more versatile with 4xEnergy and 4xBallistics. The DD has 2xEnergy and 6xBallistic.

The DD can do some specialised builds (6xMG or 3xAC2 in one arm) but on the whole the S is a far more adaptable beast and therefore more suitable as a first mech. Of course, I do recommend eventually buying ALL of the Jagers . I've even been tempted to buy a second DD because I've found a build I really like but still want another one to experiment with .

[Jamjor]

If I wanted 3 AC5's on my current build, how do I go about doing that? Even if I remove 2 lasers, it is still too much weight for a 3rd AC5.

Do I need a bigger engine? If so, should I hold off until the weekend to buy the DD for its engine and whatever weapons it comes with? I suppose 3 AC10's would be too heavy even with an XL engine.

I am confused on how to see what loadout and specs mechs have before purchasing them. I hover my mouse over the mechs in the store, but nothing happens. I would like to be able to see what they offer before I purchase them. How can I do that?

[Kiiyor]

Jamjor, on 21 August 2014 - 08:13 PM, said:

If I wanted 3 AC5's on my current build, how do I go about doing that? Even if I remove 2 lasers, it is still too much weight for a 3rd AC5.

Do I need a bigger engine? If so, should I hold off until the weekend to buy the DD for its engine and whatever weapons it comes with? I suppose 3 AC10's would be too heavy even with an XL engine.

I am confused on how to see what loadout and specs mechs have before purchasing them. I hover my mouse over the mechs in the store, but nothing happens. I would like to be able to see what they offer before I purchase them. How can I do that?

You need to make sacrifices.

Worth it.

[JC Daxion]

Indiandream, on 21 August 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

The S is more versatile with 4xEnergy and 4xBallistics. The DD has 2xEnergy and 6xBallistic.

ok.... i understand that... BUT


does that mean you should buy it first when you need 3... that is all i am saying

[Wrathful-Khan]

JC Daxion, on 21 August 2014 - 10:51 PM, said:

does that mean you should buy it first when you need 3... that is all i am saying

Yes, because you will probably want to experiment with your first ride and therefore would want the most adaptable. That's the rationale anyway. That, and the JM6-S is the cheapest. Why should someone save up for the most expensive one only to discover they don't like Jagermechs? (As if that's possible )

Edited by Indiandream, 22 August 2014 - 03:28 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

Jamjor, on 21 August 2014 - 08:13 PM, said:

If I wanted 3 AC5's on my current build, how do I go about doing that? Even if I remove 2 lasers, it is still too much weight for a 3rd AC5.

Do I need a bigger engine? If so, should I hold off until the weekend to buy the DD for its engine and whatever weapons it comes with? I suppose 3 AC10's would be too heavy even with an XL engine.

I am confused on how to see what loadout and specs mechs have before purchasing them. I hover my mouse over the mechs in the store, but nothing happens. I would like to be able to see what they offer before I purchase them. How can I do that?

Note that the STORE tab does not have mech detail functionality, for that you need to be in the MECHLAB section.

Go to the mechlab, change the pull-down filter from "owned" to "puchaseable" to see all the mechs, then you can mouseover AND select the "mech details" button for a full view of all the mech's sections, hardpoints, etc

Note that XL engines let you carry more weight, but come with some significant disadvantages. The Jager DD comes equipped with an XL engine already, which you can shuffle into any of your Jagermechs if you desire.

[Mobile Ordnance Platform]

yeah jagers are great but i much prefer catapult chassis

its fast and nimble but the XL engine is well protected with its smallish torso hitboxes

K2 has that great high firing position, 2ppc + gauss is wicked but there are so many other combos to try
and if u get tired of guns u can try LRMs for something different

well its a versatile chassis to invest in - only bad thing is you have to becareful of your huge CT hitbox (limit exposure)

[Jamjor]

So the sale is on... no DD.

To start upgrading my JM6-S, should I focus for now on purchasing the other Jager's, or should I buy myself a bigger engine and some more weapons?

[ice trey]

Personally, I wouldn't suggest a Jager as my first mech.

Of course, if you want an optimized build, the Jager is definitely one of them... but I find that the Jager is not a very good mech "Out of the box". The reason so many of the "Boomjagers" can exist is because of XL engines and other expensive upgrades that cost nearly as much as the mech itself.

Besides what's "Best" in this game, keep in mind that there is also a drop cue. Heavies and Assaults are almost always taking up the glut of it, leading to painfully long wait times after hitting the "Launch" button. It only gets worse with a higher ping. I frequently find myself waiting between roughly 5 minutes from the time that I click the launch button if the cue percentage is anywhere over 30 percent. My ping is floating around 200.

Also, it all depends on your playstyle. Some people might not like mediums because they're not big enough to do 70-point alphas or have the biggest DPS, but I've never considered them "Bad". They're a nice medium (*phbbt*) between the fast-moving lights and the powerful heavies. You're less likely to be able to "Run away" from an enemy force, but it allows you to react much better and move to where you're needed. Still, it all depends on your playstyle.

I'd suggest that if you have a ping of less than 100, give lights a try. The cue is always short, and a good light mech player can do a world of good for their team. If your ping is higher than 100, rubber banding can cause issues when you're trying to maneuver around the map, so I'd suggest using something that moves less than 110 kph.

For mechs that I find are good out of the box, I'm fond of the Wolverine, Shadowhawk, Jenner, and Battlemaster. Ravens seem to do really well for themselves, though I've never tried one (DC player means Ravens aren't something I'm supposed to have). For all the complaints I've been hearing about the Awesome, I've been having a pretty good time recently playing with them, almost as-is.

Cataphracts and Victors are likely good starting points as well. The Stalker seems to be falling out of vogue these days.

[JC Daxion]

Jamjor, on 22 August 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

So the sale is on... no DD.

To start upgrading my JM6-S, should I focus for now on purchasing the other Jager's, or should I buy myself a bigger engine and some more weapons?

Well if i was you, i would stay with the STD260 for now, and just buy the double heat sink, and endo upgrades.. I would also pick up a few weapons.. Playing around with smurfy, I came up with this build as something that is Cheap, but effective. While i have not played a Jager with this set up, I have played other similar mechs with basically the same weapon load outs. Not entirely the same, But once you play with certain weapon system set ups, you get a feel on how they work.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4bff038d43ba95e


Latter if you are still liking the Jagers, and you pick up the XL-260, swapping to this could be work nicely as the 2 ERLL's will really compliment the dual AC-5's and give you much longer range, for a modest heat increase.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cb832c96bb87ee6


You could also pick up a Pair of AC-10's to try out But really you need an XL engine for that, OR go with the Cataphract 4x, that makes a really nice Dual AC-10+dual machine gun mech, but i digress.





Anyways, I would give the STD build a try, as it will cost ya about 500k in weapons, Not to much to spend, that you can use on any mech at a later date. Then just save to buy your new chasis. You may also wan't to just keep grinding till you have enough for the Double heat sink upgrades. At this point you might just wanna buy the other A, over the DD. It is a missile based mech so it will give you more play styles to mess around with while you grind out enough to grab the DD.. then just work the 3 till master, save and buy weapon systems as needed. By the time you get all 3 to master you will be leaps and bounds above what you are doing now, so your tastes may change. I can't tell you how many times that the mech i liked most grinding up, by the time i get to master becomes a less favorite, and the one i really did not like and thought was a chore, becomes the clear winner. (honestly it takes me till elite level at least to typically settle in on a build i really love anyway.

So get playing.. Get your 50 wins this weekend.. (if you are lucky it shouldn't take to much longer than 100 matches.. Get your.. that 6.5m reward will get you that next mech, fully upgraded!

after you get the 3, and if you are enjoying the mechs, and the game.. You might want to think about saving for some mech modules.. then after master convert some XP with MC, to unlock one.. (though these days with the achievements, you might beable to unlock your first by the time you get your first 3 to master.. not sure how fast people can unlock the first one these days.

Indiandream, on 22 August 2014 - 03:27 AM, said:

Yes, because you will probably want to experiment with your first ride and therefore would want the most adaptable. That's the rationale anyway. That, and the JM6-S is the cheapest. Why should someone save up for the most expensive one only to discover they don't like Jagermechs? (As if that's possible )

Ok ya got me there.. But then again, i am that guy thatI bought the 3m cicada, the DD, Raven 3L, Centurian CN9-D and Wolverine 7K, all as first mechs of a style, and all because i just wanted the engine.. 3 of which i have yet to get around to playing. Yes i am an odd one..

But i am in a different boat, as i have mastered a bunch of chasis already so me and the OP are not really in the same position.. then again i did blow a ton of cash on an atlas, way way back when i was a noobie, and still never got around to playing. Next i swear, that Atlas D is on sale, and 3 to master WOOT!

Edited by JC Daxion, 23 August 2014 - 12:16 PM.