61 replies to this topic

[King Curt]

The title is purposefully phrased as a statement. Here is why.

I've noticed a pattern with ECM light pilots. They scamper away to spot the enemy, invariably getting destroyed alone and sad, usually with a flurry of missiles incoming from now blind LermBoats.

I was thinking I've seen this particular lone spotter suicide tactic before in another game. It rhymes with Twirled Love Spanks. Light tanks run off to spot for artillery and harass targets behind the lines. While this can be very effective when implemented by a skilled player it's usually a quick and fruitless waste of a teammate.

In this game it's worse. You're taking a valuable ECM bubble of love away from your teammates, leaving them to a murderous tempest unleashed by missile boats. This is bad for the team, bad for morale and all around bad in the not good way bad.

Stick with your teammates a bit more ECMers. Sure you can effectively run off in some cases and don't ever get confined to one tactic. But keep in mind your team also needs you for protection. You're not just eyes, you're a shield. Don't leave your team to be Mister Solo Arty Spotter, that's another game, that's WoT that is.

[Lyoto Machida]

Surprised there was no mention of dual ER Large ECM lights that run off and snipe from a distance.

[John1352]

How many Cbills do I get for sitting in cover next to your LRM boat, shielding you from the scary enemy LRMs? None.

How much fun do I have sitting in cover next to your LRM boat, shielding you from the scary enemy LRMs? None.

[Black Ivan]

Sitting next to RLM boats does not grant money or XP. Seeking out the enemy, narcing, tagging and making the occasional kill assist does.

So why sit next toan LM boat no benefit? There is no incentive for a light to sit next to LRM boats.

The 2 ER Large se

Edited by Black Ivan, 17 August 2014 - 11:28 PM.

[Remarius]

Have to be honest depends on the light setup and if i'm playing in group or solo queue.

My ERLL IS ECM lights are definitely built for harassment and that's pointless stuck with all the lumbering mechs as then you just become a target. I'll shadow the lumbering mechs until we reach cover then peel off to go hunting.

My ECM/3AMS Kitfox however is the perfect complement to a group/protective style.... very frustrating when you're doing nothing except intercept missiles but very effective.... its just theres also zero rewards xp/c-bill wise for filling that role so I'll never run it in the solo queue. It was also hit particularly badly with the savage cERLL nerf as your weapon load dedicates a lot of weight to the ecm/ams/ammo.

I generally presume that anyone playing near my usual ELO is sensible enough to take a radar Deprivation module and use cover unless they're an LRM boat (or they're an ECM boat themselves....).

[Vassago Rain]

Lyoto Machida, on 17 August 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:

Surprised there was no mention of dual ER Large ECM lights that run off and snipe from a distance.

We call those 'credit to team' builds in my guild. I'd rather drop with scrubgreens in trialmechs than see friendly dual large ravens.

[Ace Selin]

Why dont you pilot a light ECM build then?

As a PUG i play to have fun for me and the team, in that order (mostly).

I have played many games supporting the team and getting no support back.

I have ran in to help a medium against an assualt/heavy combo (me in a heavy) to only see the medium run off to save himsef when i become their focus, leaving me to die in his place.

I have played games NARCing enemies and seeing missiles kill the NARCED mechs with abandon, and in some of those same games seen my teams disregard for my safety. Teammates shooting at the NARCed mech when im getting run down by lights (lights that i then target and me in plain view of my teams LRM boats, with no LRMs fired to save me, all on the NARCed mech to get a kill).

I have typed in group chat of a lance flank and seeing no response gone alone firing to my possible death to draw the teams atttention to help the team win with not even an acknowledgment of my actions.

Im still foolish enough to often still play for the team, and still die for it, but sometimes ill see a lone friendly under fire and go F*** it, he did it to himself, why should i save him to lose half my mech or me (or both) to die shortly afterwards.

Ill play how i want & you play how you want... untill PGI changes the way it rewards people in the game.
If your LRM boat needs a spotter bring TAG, if your assualt needs ECM bring a DDC, thanks.

[Turist0AT]

agree and it happends 99.99% of the time too. Even if by the power of luck, we got two ecm in our lance, guess what they still run off and die. Because f@ck you team!

Edited by Turist0AT, 18 August 2014 - 12:37 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

Vassago Rain, on 17 August 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

We call those 'credit to team' builds in my guild. I'd rather drop with scrubgreens in trialmechs than see friendly dual large ravens.

Why?

John1352, on 17 August 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

How many Cbills do I get for sitting in cover next to your LRM boat, shielding you from the scary enemy LRMs? None.
How much fun do I have sitting in cover next to your LRM boat, shielding you from the scary enemy LRMs? None.

Shhh, do not upset our assault mech overlords. Give them their ECM cover and be quiet. And don't dare to look them in the eye, it's disrespectful. Just follow them around with your head bowed low.

Unequip your weapons, you won't be needing those. Bring TAG, NARC and AMS. Leave the killing to the big boys. Just be happy they let you play the game.

[FDJustin]

*Reads title. Gets up, goes to the store, and buys a bag of chips. Proceeds to be amused.*



These chips don't have any mac 'n cheese flavouring. They're more like cheap all dressed with a bit of jalapeno flavour added in. 1.5 / 10.

Lyoto Machida, on 17 August 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:

Surprised there was no mention of dual ER Large ECM lights that run off and snipe from a distance.

I've seen them out damage the big boys, so it's a valid tactic.

As for the other ones that run off to die... Well, they often distrupt enemy maps, break up formations, attack little buddies, or even just hide in a corner and hold a lock for your amusement.
They also get spotted and taken out. It's a dangerous game, and not one that you get good at without being a casualty many times.

Are they more useful being a walking ECM bubble for the team? Generally, yes. But as others have said before, there is very little reward in it. I used to use twin AMS and protect everyone else from missiles. There is no reward for it, and the value is arguable. Most people have radar dep which works much better than AMS. Doing more damage to the enemy team means opening them up for being crippled or killed, and that's arguably better. At least it pays you.

*I don't rely on any team mates anymore. Without proper communication, leadership and having worked together enough times to be able to read each other, you're going to be surprised by their choices and wind up KIA.

Edited by FDJustin, 18 August 2014 - 01:28 AM.

[Wolfways]

If i drop in an ECM light mech it's to hide me from enemy sensors, not to shield my team or myself from LRM's.

[Vassago Rain]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 18 August 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

Why?


Shhh, do not upset our assault mech overlords. Give them their ECM cover and be quiet. And don't dare to look them in the eye, it's disrespectful. Just follow them around with your head bowed low.

Unequip your weapons, you won't be needing those. Bring TAG, NARC and AMS. Leave the killing to the big boys. Just be happy they let you play the game.

Because people who make credit to team builds are actively disregarding their own team. That's why they make those builds in the first place.

Twin ER large ravens might not know it, but they're the most jaded and cynical players in the game. They don't trust their team at all.

[Monkey Lover]

When you can legged in a light with one shot the only thing they can do is stay out of range. When lrms almost always hit the lights legs you need ecm cover.

So if you want to fix this Buff light legs.

Buff armor,
Buff speed when they are legged
Remove the freeze effect when they are first legged.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 August 2014 - 02:25 AM.

[akhv]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 18 August 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

Why?


Shhh, do not upset our assault mech overlords. Give them their ECM cover and be quiet. And don't dare to look them in the eye, it's disrespectful. Just follow them around with your head bowed low.

Unequip your weapons, you won't be needing those. Bring TAG, NARC and AMS. Leave the killing to the big boys. Just be happy they let you play the game.

Actually that's exactly why I bought a commando, to run a pacifist build, just tag narc and ecm. But sadly the game didn't let me become an ultimate team player.

Edited by akhv, 18 August 2014 - 02:16 AM.

[NextGame]

don't expect anyone to play the way you want them to in Rambo queue, especially if it involves spending 15 minutes of their time performing a non combat role for your benefit and not theirs.

[FDJustin]

Monkey Lover, on 18 August 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

When you can leg a light with one shot the only thing they can do is stay out of ran. When lrms almost always hit the lights legs you need ecm cover.

So if you want to fix this Buff light legs.

Buff armor,
Buff speed when they are legged
Remove the freeze effect when they are first legged.

Right now, I'd just be happy if the stun was gone. Without a hint of exaggeration, I'd rather being legged just kill the mech than just stand there helplessly. If we had an eject function, nine times out of ten I'd hear "Right leg destroyed" and immediately press it.

Are there any light fast enough to actually outrun LRMs? AMS doesn't help very much, it just reduces incoming damage. LRMs fly over most cover. You'll still hear "warning incoming missiles" 2 or 3 times after breaking visual contact...
Oh well. Just a few thousand more GXP and a few million more cbills for radar dep.

[Tristan Winter]

Vassago Rain, on 18 August 2014 - 02:01 AM, said:

Because people who make credit to team builds are actively disregarding their own team. That's why they make those builds in the first place.
Twin ER large ravens might not know it, but they're the most jaded and cynical players in the game. They don't trust their team at all.

I see what you're saying then. But if I can get a twin ERLL Raven on my team that does 400-500 damage, that's more useful than about 80% of the non-ECM light mechs in the underhive. Group queue is a different story. But in the underhive, 80% of non-ECM light mechs (stats made up on the spot) are as good as useless in Assault and Skirmish. To get an ER LL Raven on the team with 2-3 kills and 400-500 damage is a gift from God, in most matches.

In the underhive, trusting your team is usually a big mistake, unless team chat reveals early in the game that you have some team players with you. If you try to get the team working together in team chat and no one responds, it's time to activate your Carry Harder card. At that point, the only people who can save the team is you, and any other jaded, cynical teammate who knows not to be a hero and save the bads who get themselves in a bad position.

If I could have a twin ERLL Raven for every light mech patriot who thinks he's doing the team a great service by running straight up to the enemy, popping his UAV and being gunned down in ten seconds flat, I expect my W/L ratio would be double of what it is right now. Or even worse, light mech pilots who pop their UAV 1 kilometer away from the nearest enemy.

Your mileage may vary. Group queue and underhive are practically two different games, most of the time.

akhv, on 18 August 2014 - 02:15 AM, said:

Actually that's exactly why I bought a commando, to run a pacifist build, just tag narc and ecm. But sadly the game didn't let me become an ultimate team player.

I know that feel bro. You drop the UAV on the perfect location, at the perfect time, lighting up 10 enemy mechs and then... nothing happens. A lone Griffin on your team fires his single LRM 10, which gets eaten up by enemy AMS. As the UAV dies without so much as a single component destruction on the other team, you realize your TAG and NARC are worth less than flamers on a mech with single heat sinks.

[Livewyr]

Does not pay to sit next to the defenseless. Just makes you a slow, stationary, or repetitive/predictable target.


Bring AMS and back-up weapons, stay near cover.
Profit.

[Raide Six]

Vassago Rain, on 17 August 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

We call those 'credit to team' builds in my guild. I'd rather drop with scrubgreens in trialmechs than see friendly dual large ravens.

In my dual ERLL Raven-3L I usually announce in the match lobby to my team that i'm giving ecm coverage to an assault - usually Direwolves - then I stick with them (if i'm the only ecm this usually makes a nice chunk of our team stick with me & the DWF) a little behind and attack the targets they fire at. Works well. And they always appreciate it.

[FDJustin]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 18 August 2014 - 02:38 AM, said:

I see what you're saying then. But if I can get a twin ERLL Raven on my team that does 400-500 damage, that's more useful than about 80% of the non-ECM light mechs in the underhive. Group queue is a different story. But in the underhive, 80% of non-ECM light mechs (stats made up on the spot) are as good as useless in Assault and Skirmish. To get an ER LL Raven on the team with 2-3 kills and 400-500 damage is a gift from God, in most matches.

In the underhive, trusting your team is usually a big mistake, unless team chat reveals early in the game that you have some team players with you. If you try to get the team working together in team chat and no one responds, it's time to activate your Carry Harder card. At that point, the only people who can save the team is you, and any other jaded, cynical teammate who knows not to be a hero and save the bads who get themselves in a bad position.

If I could have a twin ERLL Raven for every light mech patriot who thinks he's doing the team a great service by running straight up to the enemy, popping his UAV and being gunned down in ten seconds flat, I expect my W/L ratio would be double of what it is right now. Or even worse, light mech pilots who pop their UAV 1 kilometer away from the nearest enemy.

You know, those ravens get shut down too. I like to call them out, or sometimes even hunt them personally.

Other lights... Sometimes they make bad mistakes. Mistakes they have to make in order to figure out how to play better. Sometimes the mistakes are simple mis-calculations, often due to lack of map familiarity. Numerous times I've been shut down by taking a left instead of a right, finding only more enemies instead of safe passage.

Sometimes, as you say, the mistake is trusting your allies. You move up, ready to sew dischord and pain with 6 - 11 allies nearby to take advantage of it, light up several targets with the R key to give an indication of numbers, and before you realize what's happened- Your allies backpeddled. Then they're mad at you for only doing 20 damage. Is that a bad light pilot? Not necessarily. That's someone who misread their allies and died for it.