80 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

So your opinion is that ppcs were always bad, it was just acs that were good? So everyone boatting ppcs for the last 18+ months were just all bads?

Wolfways, on 20 August 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

If i can boat AC's (like my Jm6-S) why would i want a crap PPC on there? Seeing a nerfed Jager (Firebrand) on my team makes me sad.

I've had a PPC K2 since closed beta and PPC's have always been a bad weapon. They just combine easily with AC's which are the OP weapons.

[Livewyr]

How quickly we forget why Ghost heat was implemented in the first place.

[Wolfways]

MischiefSC, on 20 August 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

So your opinion is that ppcs were always bad, it was just acs that were good? So everyone boatting ppcs for the last 18+ months were just all bads?

Maybe not bad players, but definitely bad mechs.
I've never seen a PPC-heavy mech and gave it a second thought, but i try like hell to stay out of the firing line of AC-heavy mechs. My JM6-S with stock weapons is ridiculously OP.
Just get close to PPC boats and they can't brawl because of min range/heat (PPC) or are stupidly hot (ERPPC). Either way they can't fire much while AC's just pound away almost non-stop (depending on heat sinks).

With the amount of PPC's around I'm baffled as to why people think brawling is difficult.

Also, if PPC's are so powerful why does nearly every single person who gets a K2 remove the PPC's and fit AC's instead? K2's are fairly common...AC K2's anyway. PPC K2's are very rare.

Edited by Wolfways, 20 August 2014 - 12:46 PM.

[MischiefSC]

You should get a group of likeminded folks and go stomp face in group queue. Lot of people there running bad mechs then. Go change the meta!

[Wolfways]

MischiefSC, on 20 August 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

You should get a group of likeminded folks and go stomp face in group queue. Lot of people there running bad mechs then. Go change the meta!

I was doing that, but my wife stopped playing

[Ph30nix]

Livewyr, on 20 August 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

How quickly we forget why Ghost heat was implemented in the first place.

not asking for ghost heat to go away just a SLIGHT lowering of heat, heck knock off 1 point of heat to test

just like with alot of things the heat system hurts the lighter mechs far worse then the big boys who are usually fielding ballistics as much as possible anyways.

[Wolfways]

Ph30nix, on 20 August 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

*snip* the big boys who are usually fielding ballistics as much as possible anyways.

But i thought the problem was people boating PPC's

[Livewyr]

Ph30nix, on 20 August 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

not asking for ghost heat to go away just a SLIGHT lowering of heat, heck knock off 1 point of heat to test

just like with alot of things the heat system hurts the lighter mechs far worse then the big boys who are usually fielding ballistics as much as possible anyways.

That is not the point.

[MischiefSC]

If ppc heat is lower you get faster refire and ppcs are again superior to all other is energy weapons. Right now its debatable - which it should be.

[MischiefSC]

K2s are a suicide ride. I see maybe 2 per week. They all had ppcs. Dunno what to tell you on that one.

[Deathlike]

The only suggestion I have that the IS ERPPC drops 1 to 1.5 pts of heat... if only because the Clan ERPPC is more or less "right" where it is at. The IS ERPPC has very little to distinguish itself from the Clan ERPPC, so a slight nerf to heat is what it needs.

With respect to speed though... using ERPPC (either Clan or IS) at extreme ranges (let alone optimal range) is a lost cause, unless the target is dumb enough to stand there and wait for the bolt to hit their mech.

Edited by Deathlike, 20 August 2014 - 01:36 PM.

[Lightfoot]

lockwoodx, on 20 August 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

PPCs can no longer leg my lights at 600+ unless the pilot has really good aim and a proper lead. PGI took the snap shot out of PPCs, thus one more crutch for bad players removed and a step in the right direction. With any luck lurms are next. They could use another swift kick to the nuts in the travel time department.

You want the fuzzy mech arcade game so your Light lives a little longer? You should want the challenge of a realistic Mech simulation. Also if you got hit by PPCs at 600 meters in a Light you must not have been moving and you would still be hit by the ruined PPCs.

PPCs were nerfed to stop them from being used with Gauss Rifles according to Paul ... except now they are being used with 2xAC10's and 2xPPC, etc. which is worse since anyone can do that. Most players couldn't figure out how to fire Gauss Rifles and PPCs at the same instant so the nerf they used was like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

CTF-3D 2xAC10 and 2xPPC your new Meta-Mech. These weapons have synchronicity and the Gauss/ PPC were 500 mps apart so they couldn't both hit a mech moving laterally in the same section. The new PPC/ERPPC plus AC10 will. Perfect PP-FLD.

I have never been a meta gamer, I tend to like certain mechs and making them beat the curve, but I will have to test this one out.

Edited by Lightfoot, 22 August 2014 - 03:39 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Knock yourself out. Way too slow, xl phract, ballistic drop, 3 tons ammo. Go crazy.

Edited by MischiefSC, 20 August 2014 - 03:57 PM.

[Ph30nix]

again im not worried about the speed my thinking again is this

Upcoming Clan vs IS matches!

RIght now clan has the range advantage, yes it is mitigated by the Dot nature of things and the increased burn times
but right now IS has NOTHING that can even come close to touching a clan mech at 1001yards while still doing moderate damage except the ERPPC which is so heat heavy its a liability to use for the most part. 10x so on mordor and such.
Now i know in close IS has an advantage but they still need SOMETHING to discourage long range harassment.
If the ERPPC heat was lowered some then IS mechs could field that without gimping themselves, They could then use them to at least discourage clan mechs from being able to long range snipe with no risk.

As for some peoples concerns that PPC would become "the best" energy weapon well the thing is the best weapons in this game currently are the FLD weapons.
The large beam durations of the lasers makes it even worse, The other mechwarrior games had their beam durations at about 1/2 of what MWO are. But beam duration is another matter entirely and so is the IS ML heat level.

Edited by Ph30nix, 20 August 2014 - 03:44 PM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Ph30nix, on 20 August 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

ehhh my disagreement here is that the use of terrain and cover itself is a major skill requirement, your method devolves the game into just who has the most armor........ Don't know if i like that idea.

Not just the most armor, how you use your armor or there wouldn't be a point to dividing it between front and rear and everything would be like the legs/arms. Now obviously payload plus where you place your shots come into play but you mentioned armor so that's what I'm responding to without getting too long winded again.

Edited by lockwoodx, 20 August 2014 - 04:56 PM.

[Lightfoot]

MischiefSC, on 20 August 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

Knock yourself out. Way too slow, xl phract, ballistic drop, 3 tons ammo. Go crazy.

Actually it works pretty well, drop the jump-jet for plenty of ammo. 65kph is not slow. One shot kill on Light mechs to center torso hits. Better than the old 2xGauss phract before the Gauss de-synch.

Dire Wolf 3xUAC10 and 2xERPPC This is the one I worry about though, an easy 60 point synchronous alpha-strike (50 point PP-FLD) that has only minor drawbacks that the pilot can ride out.

So, it got worse not better. Trust me, the synchronization is going to result in one shot destruction of most mech sections this hits. You just don't want it, it's much worse than having a triple-gauss mech running around, the Dire Wolf version is practically a quad-gauss going off every 4 seconds.

Please just fix the Gauss Rifle some other way, make the PPC 1200-1300 mps or something rational.

Edited by Lightfoot, 22 August 2014 - 03:39 PM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Lightfoot, on 20 August 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

You want the fuzzy mech arcade game so your Light lives a little longer? You should want the challenge of a realistic Mech simulation. Also if you got hit by PPCs at 600 meters in a Light you must not have been moving and you would still be hit by the ruined PPCs.

You can talk about Mech simulation when they bring back the battletech pods I grew up with.

[MischiefSC]

Lightfoot, on 20 August 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

Actually it works pretty well, drop the jump-jet for plenty of ammo. 65kph is not slow. One shot kill on Light mechs to center torso hits. Better than the old 2xGauss phract before the Gauss de-synch.

Dire Wolf 3xUAC10 and 2xERPPC This is the one I worry about though, an easy 60 point synchronous alpha-strike (50 point PP-FLD) that has only minor drawbacks that the pilot can ride out.

So, it got worse not better. Trust me, the synchronization is going to result in one shot destruction of most mech sections this hits. You just don't want it, it's much worse than having a triple-gauss mech running around, the Dire Wolf version is practically a quad-gauss going off every 4 seconds.

Please just fix the Gauss Rifle some other way, make the PPC 1200-1300 mps or something rational.

Actually PPCs are in a rock solid place. I truly, truly hope people try your suicide build; my Banshee has 3xPPC 1xGauss and I have no issue putting it all on the same spot. It's at most a 1/2 second delay on the gauss shot to get it all in the same place. It would kill your fat torso insanely easy to kill Phract in 2 hits, assuming nobody else shoots you. You're the same speed as my Atlas and only slightly more maneuverable, your side torsos are an easy hit from any direction, your weapons don't sync (AC10 ballistic drop) beyond a few hundred meters. You've got no cockpit shake like a UAC5 to throw off the aim of the people blowing your side torsos out.

So you've got 1 chassis capable of boating the 2AC10s and 2PPCs and it does it in a glass cannon design that makes the Boomjag 2xAC20 look like a tank with rocketskates on it (for the same damage btw, plus 2 MLs).

PPCs are balanced. They're not an ideal brawling weapon or ideal range sniper weapon but a well balanced addition to the energy lineup. It's actually a choice now instead of a given.

Which is what we want.

[Y E O N N E]

MischiefSC, on 20 August 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

So you've got 1 chassis capable of boating the 2AC10s and 2PPCs and it does it in a glass cannon design that makes the Boomjag 2xAC20 look like a tank with rocketskates on it (for the same damage btw, plus 2 MLs).

Okay, now that's a funny picture. +1 just for that, never minding that I agree with you.

[Widowmaker1981]

i do think PPCs were a little bit too powerful before, not ERPPCs though, the insane heat kept them under control imo. However now at this speed they are ... too nerfed. to bring back the AC10 comparison (i dont care that not many mechs can mount it. some can..)

2xAC10 + 4 tons ammo, only engine heatsinks (can fire indefinitely till you run out of ammo, will never overheat):

28 tons, 18 slots.

2xPPC + additional 6 heatsinks (the minimum you need to fire 2 somewhat often. youll still overheat at max refire rate though, fast on mordor or caustic)

20 tons, 24 slots.

So its 8 tons Vs 6 slots - But the ACs can fire forever on any map, have almost 2x the rate of fire, give your location away far less easily and can be backed up by a bank of Medium lasers which you can actually fire without melting.
(FIREBRAND for example. maybe swap 1 or 2 ML for more heatsinks)

its also really annoyingly not logical having particle beams that by any kind of semi real science would move at a significant fraction of the speed of light move so slowly. I get that trying to use realism in a stompy space robot game is a little silly, but still..
My personal preference would be to set speed back to 1500, implement the anti metawolf nerf (no 2xgauss + 2xPPC at the same time), give PPCs a very short beam duration (0.2s or so) that works like clan ACs do (lore always had PPCs with a beam) and set LL ghost heat to 3 not 2 to keep them viable. Id say make IS ACs burstfire too, as the game WOULD be better.. but IS kinda need that advantage vs clans.. so i dont know.

for what its worth.. i used to use PPCs quite a bit, also ERLLs, varied depending on chassis. now i have 0 PPCs equipped on any mech.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 21 August 2014 - 01:27 AM.