207 replies to this topic

[TercieI]

Inflatable Fish, on 12 March 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

liking a mech doesn't make it a good mech. and that's coming from someone who absolutely loves his VND.

Well said, Fish.

This is a distinction way too many players fail to make. "I like it" =/= "It's good."

(I liked LCTs and CDAs before that was cool and I'm coming to adore my QKDs, so I'm with you).

Also, in your opinion, is the SIB still the best of them?

Edited by Terciel1976, 12 March 2015 - 02:14 PM.

[Inflatable Fish]

possible-loadout-wise, it's the best one, solely because of the second missile slot. its problem is that its quirks might as well not exist. they don't change the way the mech plays in any meaningful way. instead of focusing on the variant's unique feature, i.e. its missile affinity, they instead gave negligible buffs to large lasers, which are borderline too heavy and too hot to use in any reasonable way in a 45-tonner with hardpoints made for brawling.

[Kjudoon]

xxSilverWolfxx, on 11 March 2015 - 12:11 AM, said:

Just came back to MWO recently. I wonder how good is the Vindi right now ? Especially the 1R and 1AA

Meta addicts hate it because it can't be played like their game and you'll about never find it in a comp dropdeck because it's not mathematically powerful enough. Then again, no 45 ton mech is.

So once you ignore the knee jerk complaints, you can get more down to what the mech is good for: Fun and a very specific role.

It's a stellar PPC poptart, great maneouverability, powerful PPC quirks and an all around dynamic mech.

It's hitboxes make it XL friendly allowing it to be a good little sniper build.

I'm personally not a fan of the ballistics on the X, preferring to go LRMs on that build, but both the LRM10 and AC10/LB10x builds are viable and fun in the right hands.

What you must remember is that this is generally a 'big game hunter' that sits back, takes it's time and starts pouring rapid fire PPC shots into a target. Dual PPC builds are amazing for this. On one build I think I can fire 12 PPCs at the same ROF as a ML before I am going to overheat.

The non AA versions are a bit slow thanks to a foolishly low engine cap, but they're still fast and maneouverable enough to be pretty darn durable as long as you don't think for one second you can brawl even with a STD engine. (which you probably shouldn't use anyway, the benefits are just not there).

In the end, it's a surprising mech, that you must realize it's limitations. It's toughness is not going to allow you to be tanking, but will be often enough for you to run away, use your maneouverability to reposition and flip the tables from long range. It can't dance with light gunboats because it is a long range mech. On the other hand, it is an absolute terror on Heavies and Assaults delivering lots of damage at 400-600m and being to reposition quickly before their help gets all up in your grits.

That's my attitude at least. Play them for fun, niche warfare and say sod all to the meta freaks.

[TercieI]

Inflatable Fish, on 12 March 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

possible-loadout-wise, it's the best one, solely because of the second missile slot. its problem is that its quirks might as well not exist. they don't change the way the mech plays in any meaningful way. instead of focusing on the variant's unique feature, i.e. its missile affinity, they instead gave negligible buffs to large lasers, which are borderline too heavy and too hot to use in any reasonable way in a 45-tonner with hardpoints made for brawling.

Thanks. I picked up the 1AA and 1R on sale and have been waiting for a sale on the SIB. The 1X looks the weakest by far to me. That seem right to you?

[Kjudoon]

Terciel1976, on 12 March 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

Thanks. I picked up the 1AA and 1R on sale and have been waiting for a sale on the SIB. The 1X looks the weakest by far to me. That seem right to you?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...63836e4093cd25f

Try this. I run it as a long/medium range harrasser. It may not seem like much but every single time I roll it out I catch people off guard because they keep expecting PPC MG/Autocannon. The usual precautions about using a single LRM 10 apply, but if AMS is light/non existant, they run like little girls from a rat. If they have ECM, pop it with the PPC and launch a salvo. Great fun. They run away, let your missiles do the pursuing and just try to keep LOS on them.

Stick with your big boys and support them from cover, and you'll have a blast.

Edited by Kjudoon, 12 March 2015 - 02:48 PM.

[Inflatable Fish]

Kjudoon, on 12 March 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

words

so anyone who finds flaws in a mech is a "meta-addict" and "meta freak"? seriously, is it this time of the year again?

Terciel1976, on 12 March 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

Thanks. I picked up the 1AA and 1R on sale and have been waiting for a sale on the SIB. The 1X looks the weakest by far to me. That seem right to you?

the 1AA is the second best, although it runs too hot when running twin PPC even with the significant quirk. if you only run one PPC, you can stick some MPLs and ASRM6 for close range combat and do "alright" if noone decides to pick you for focus fire. six jump jets are the best thing about this variant, at 45 tons they p. much keep you flying (not falling slowly) until the fuel runs out. nice for quick repositioning on Canyon Network or HPG.

the 1R I ran with an ALRM20, TAG and 4 MLs. the lack of any kind of heat reduction quirk makes it very hard to make full use of the abundance of hardpoints this one offers.

the 1X is just hopeless.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

so anyone who finds flaws in a mech is a "meta-addict" and "meta freak"? seriously, is it this time of the year again?

No. I'm just saying that someone who issues a flat statement of "it's crap" or any variant of without reason is the issue and probably some cultist of the meta.

For example, I think Centurions are garbage. Why? Because they require a playstyle I hate: brawling close range with a big AC trading armor. Now if you love that sort of thing, hey! Get the Centurion! You'll have a ball! Is it a solid meta mech? Newp! Otherwise I'd see it more in hard core drop decks when I watch comp games. The Centie is good at what it does. I don't like what it does. It's one of the things that's drivign me crazy with the Enforcer which is essentially a jumpy Centurion. JJs make it better, but again, it's a playstyle I can't make work for me or enjoy.

All mech have flaws. Everyone has an opinion. Not all opinions are flaws. Heck! Not even all flaws are flaws, they're design characteristics.

Quote

the 1R I ran with an ALRM20, TAG and 4 MLs. the lack of any kind of heat reduction quirk makes it very hard to make full use of the abundance of hardpoints this one offers.

I'll have to try this build with one significant modification: 4SPLs. Far better heat and DPS for the sacrifice of range... which is why you have the LRM20.

Edited by Kjudoon, 12 March 2015 - 03:37 PM.

[TercieI]

Inflatable Fish, on 12 March 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:

so anyone who finds flaws in a mech is a "meta-addict" and "meta freak"? seriously, is it this time of the year again?



the 1AA is the second best, although it runs too hot when running twin PPC even with the significant quirk. if you only run one PPC, you can stick some MPLs and ASRM6 for close range combat and do "alright" if noone decides to pick you for focus fire. six jump jets are the best thing about this variant, at 45 tons they p. much keep you flying (not falling slowly) until the fuel runs out. nice for quick repositioning on Canyon Network or HPG.

the 1R I ran with an ALRM20, TAG and 4 MLs. the lack of any kind of heat reduction quirk makes it very hard to make full use of the abundance of hardpoints this one offers.

the 1X is just hopeless.

Thanks. According to snafets, both the 1AA and 1R have the same 10 PPC 10 all energy heat reduction. Is that mistaken?

Edit: Game agrees, both have the same heat gen quirks.

Edited by Terciel1976, 12 March 2015 - 04:16 PM.

[Brizna]

VINDICATOR 1AA: 1.14 win ratio, 1.48 kill ratio.

Build: twin PPC; max engine and JJ.

To be honest when I bought it (not so long ago) I was expecting far less from vindicators but I found this particular variant to be quite decent. Compared to a Blackjack 3 its lower mounted weapons make you expose yourself more, but then you are faster and have much better hitboxes. I still think BJ3 is a better mech overall to boat PPCs but vindicator is more dynamic and funnier to drive due to greater speed, sturdiness and arm yawn.

Edited by Brizna, 12 March 2015 - 04:29 PM.

[Inflatable Fish]

Kjudoon, on 12 March 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

No. I'm just saying that someone who issues a flat statement of "it's crap" or any variant of without reason is the issue and probably some cultist of the meta.

For example, I think Centurions are garbage. Why? Because they require a playstyle I hate: brawling close range with a big AC trading armor. Now if you love that sort of thing, hey! Get the Centurion! You'll have a ball! Is it a solid meta mech? Newp! Otherwise I'd see it more in hard core drop decks when I watch comp games. The Centie is good at what it does. I don't like what it does. It's one of the things that's drivign me crazy with the Enforcer which is essentially a jumpy Centurion. JJs make it better, but again, it's a playstyle I can't make work for me or enjoy.

All mech have flaws. Everyone has an opinion. Not all opinions are flaws. Heck! Not even all flaws are flaws, they're design characteristics.

you say "everyone has an opinion," yet you insult everyone who disagrees with yours. in two posts, you managed to include three derogative phrases towards people who have a different approach to assessing mechs than you.

just so you know, the Vindicator is one of my favourite mechs in game. I've spent unreasonable amounts of time trying to make them worthwhile - and failed, because each of them has flaws that outweigh the advantages and make them unusable outside of pug queue. that said, I still take my Bluesmobile to CW *because I love it* - but it doesn't make it a good mech.

Quote

I'll have to try this build with one significant modification: 4SPLs. Far better heat and DPS for the sacrifice of range... which is why you have the LRM20.

you say you hate brawling, yet you "improve" a dedicated medium-range support mech to make it... more brawly? what am I missing?

Terciel1976, on 12 March 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

Thanks. According to snafets, both the 1AA and 1R have the same 10 PPC 10 all energy heat reduction. Is that mistaken?

Edit: Game agrees, both have the same heat gen quirks.

you're right, I must've missed it. maybe the 10% is enough to make it work - but I doubt it.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

you say you hate brawling, yet you "improve" a dedicated medium-range support mech to make it... more brawly? what am I missing?

I do hate brawling. I hate the adrenaline rush and butterflies in the stomach. That is not fun for me. I spend most of my time in long range 600m or more. When they get close, I use every gun I have to get away. Although I'd rather have the range of the MLs, the DPS and heat control of the SPLs for when I'm forced to knife fight are more what I need till I get to my preferred range and open fire again.

The SPLs are the backup weapon, not the primary. They're to be used when cornered or the LRMs are gone.

[Inflatable Fish]

Kjudoon, on 13 March 2015 - 12:52 AM, said:

I do hate brawling. I hate the adrenaline rush and butterflies in the stomach. That is not fun for me. I spend most of my time in long range 600m or more. When they get close, I use every gun I have to get away. Although I'd rather have the range of the MLs, the DPS and heat control of the SPLs for when I'm forced to knife fight are more what I need till I get to my preferred range and open fire again.

The SPLs are the backup weapon, not the primary. They're to be used when cornered or the LRMs are gone.

taking MLs over SPLs, however, will give you a better chance to avoid getting in brawling range in the first place.

I also think you shouldn't think of the ALRM20 as the primary weapon. LRMs in their very nature are situational, easy to counter and very unforgiving of mistakes, and their spread makes them inconsistent at delivering damage where it matters. something a set of four MLs is wicked for.

[PeeWrinkle]

Terciel1976, on 12 March 2015 - 01:25 PM, said:

This is a distinction way too many players fail to make. "I like it" =/= "It's good."

I stand corrected. The fact that I like the mech does not make it good. But I have to add that right now there are probably only about 8 good IS chassis in the game right now, and that is being generous. At least based on what is seen in CW. But no worries as the quirks get modified and the hit boxes get changed, and other changes come along different mechs will be the good ones. Maybe then the VND will be able to be labled as good versus just a fun little mech to play.

Although I do have to wonder if a 45 tonner that can use dual PPC's will soon make it into CW with the 250 IS to 240 CLAN tonnage limit change. Then again, why not just take a Panther at 35 Tons with 2ERPPC's, which is faster? I need to check the math, but I am sure having the extra 10 tons will make a difference in IS drop decks. My guess is you'll end up seeing decks with 2 thunderbolts 1 light and 1 assault.

[mbebe23]

I wanted to say 'THANK YOU' for the brawler build for St'Ives Blue with STD engine, SRM4+SRM6 with Artemis. Quite costly due to ferro fibrous armor, additional STD engine and endo structure but the fun is incredible!

[White Bear 84]

Bigbacon, on 19 August 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

LOL we both made a thread at 12:30...

I went with 2LL, 1ML, 2 SRM6, XL245, Endo, DHS,

shaved some armor to get an extra DHS on there.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ceefe2174760b2f

Exactly the build I put together before checking out this thread

Edit, after finding the build too hot, downgraded to srm 4's and upped the heatsinks. Just ran a group match and got over 1,000 damage in it. Actually really like this mech!

Edited by White Bear 84, 26 November 2015 - 06:22 AM.

[4ries]

My vindicator-1AA:
XL295 (biggest it can fit - had in my inventory...) -speed 106 something kph
1 ppc with cooldown module lvl5
3 medium lasers with range module lvl5
1 artemis srm4 with 2 ton ammo
endosteel
max armor (exept 1 point on both my legs...)
1 double heatsink (engine)
4 jumpjets

Firepower - 33.5. Heat - 1.2.
This is a fun mech to play around with. It gets around fast, has a decent long range puch with the ppc and when you get closer you have 3 medium lasers and the asrm4. Just dont forget to jump around...
I won a game last night by jumping around like a madman because I was the last man standing. I took on a mostly dead kodiak (with 3 lrm's left) and a more healthy jagermech. By the time I won I had lost my right arm that had my ppc and a medium laser. And that kodiak was shot by his teammate and I killed that jager. it was glorious! And I also was somewhat lucky too...

But, all the vindicators are squishy. Even with a standard engine I havent noticed that I survived longer then with an xl. Might aswell go with an xl and get some more weapons on your mech.

[Nullmancer]

VND-1AA

I do well in this build. It won't do super high damage but will punch out components and achieve kills with regularity. Very nimble too.


The other vindicator's I've sold off long ago and I've never been tempted to buy the St. Ives Blues.

Edited by Nullmancer, 14 June 2016 - 04:17 PM.

[Kuaron]

So, what does 21. June change for the Vindis?
Size doesn't change much and the bonus armour change to bonus structure (which makes no difference either, does it?).
Only actual changes I see for the 1X variant.
Will it lead to new builds?
Is anyone playing MGs now?

[Nullmancer]

lessee, what's changed...

Vindicator's will universally lose the armor bonus for legs and arms, and instead gain structure bonuses in all locations, 1AA getting the least, 1X getting the most, and SIB and 1R getting somewhere in between. Other quirks are unchanged on all variants but the 1X, it gains machine gun RoF, additional energy cooldown and slightly improved accel/decceleration.

The chassis is also a bit smaller.


I don't think its really going to change anything except the few people who own a 1X will use machine guns maybe.



ugh

Im pissed they didn't fix that stupid rock 'em, sock 'em arm!

[DrRedCoat]

I'm kinda mixed on this. They virtually didn't change size at all with the rescale which I guess is kind of a win since most mechs that changed got bigger. But swapping the armor quirks for structure quirks is a loss. Sure the limb itself technically survives the same amount of time as before but now it takes less damage to get through the armor and start critting out your components. You'd be surprised how often I lose an arm PPC in my 1AA before losing the whole arm itself as it is. On the up side, it did receive (the 1AA in particular) torso structure quirks which have been desperately needed.
As usual, this all comes as speculation and we'll see how it works out when implemented.