93 replies to this topic

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Andross Deverow, on 20 August 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Agreed 100% but.... Russ has already shot down any hope of a Dropship type dynamic "fun" game mode. I cant remember where I read it, possibly a twitter post. So.... if youre looking for anything fun like large group raids or other large scale battles over multiple objectives I feel bad. This game is seemingly stuck in Death Match mode and will more than likely die that way.

Sad but true more than likely.

Regards

I know, I just love how serious everyone is over this stuff, when it's all irrelevant because we've been given a dud arena death match game.

And I would be FINE with a Solaris style game, if it was advertised and built as such, but it's not.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 20 August 2014 - 06:54 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Mystere, on 20 August 2014 - 06:41 AM, said:

But chaff is woefully single-purpose. Smoke modules are a much better alternative because they are general purpose.

You can't monetize all-purpose like you can one item/one job. (I do agree with you by the way, I'd prefer a multi-purpose consumable. I just don't think it'd happen).

[Mystere]

cdlord, on 20 August 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

You can't monetize all-purpose like you can one item/one job. (I do agree with you by the way, I'd prefer a multi-purpose consumable. I just don't think it'd happen).

I think you're severely underestimating the spamming potential of such a module, especially if one is allowed to carry as much as possible. Didn't artillery and air strikes teach you anything?

[CDLord HHGD]

Mystere, on 20 August 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

I think you're severely underestimating the spamming potential of such a module, especially if one is allowed to carry as much as possible. Didn't artillery and air strikes teach you anything?

I have a thick skull.....

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Chaff module is a great idea. Maybe matches will go back to an exchange of blows instead of tossers tossing.

[Davers]

El Bandito, on 20 August 2014 - 05:26 AM, said:

Why complicate things instead of asking PGI to lower damage it takes for NARC to fall off? That way everyone, including those who can't afford the module will not be screwed over. Keep it simple.

NARC stays on for the full duration now. It isn't effected by damage.

[FDJustin]

Mystere, on 20 August 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

I think you're severely underestimating the spamming potential of such a module, especially if one is allowed to carry as much as possible. Didn't artillery and air strikes teach you anything?

Yeah, it has high spamming potential. But it also competes with UAV, and those strikes you hate so much. Toss in a couple more good consumables and you won't find any of them spammed too much. Except strikes, I don't think that's ever going away.

[Shae Starfyre]

They should give you two different types of AMS (Chaff, triggers like a weapon, with like-Narc number of rounds per ton) and the regular one we have.

Mechs with two or three AMS would be awesome.

Chaff AMS (1.5 Tons), Ammo 7 canistors per ton, range 200m with a 50m burst (lasts for 2 seconds or so); meant to be used to block incoming missiles as you move from cover to cover; in a long, open ground stetch, mutiples can be fired (cool down 3-5 seconds) stringing along a chaff-pearl necklace behind you (this acts almost like a decoy in retrospect, as missiles previously targeting you go over you heading for the chaff cloud as you continue forward?

I am rambling now; there's a good idea in here somewhere.

[Mystere]

FDJustin, on 20 August 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

Yeah, it has high spamming potential. But it also competes with UAV, and those strikes you hate so much. Toss in a couple more good consumables and you won't find any of them spammed too much. Except strikes, I don't think that's ever going away.

I hate strikes? You are obviously mistaking me for someone else. I've spent over 60M c-bills on them.

I made people hate strikes. <maniacal >

Edited by Mystere, 20 August 2014 - 10:03 AM.

[Carrioncrows]

The Chaff module would simply be a single use consumable.

You use it once and it's done.

There is no magic module box with charges but just a single charge.

[Mystere]

Carrioncrows, on 20 August 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

The Chaff module would simply be a single use consumable.

You use it once and it's done.

There is no magic module box with charges but just a single charge.

But, as I mentioned earlier, it's only really useful against LRMs, which is why I proposed smoke modules instead.

[Carrioncrows]

Mystere, on 20 August 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

But, as I mentioned earlier, it's only really useful against LRMs, which is why I proposed smoke modules instead.

It drops all locks and prevents lock-ons, that's more than just useful for LRM's

You can pop it to cross an open space and have no red triangles show up on the enemy screen if they have LOS to you. So unless they visually target you then that is it's own reward.

Trust me I want smoke as well, artillery smoke wall, artillery chaff wall, or even have flamers be able to create these things. But until then.

[Jakob Knight]

What happened to Chaff? Easily answered. It was changed to a full module called Radar Deprivation. Thus, it traded being a consumable complete immunity shield for an entire team for being a permanent semi-immunity shield for the mounting unit.

Now, if you'd like to remove Radar Deprivation in favor of a consumable Chaff that would be in place of an Arty or Airstrike, then I suppose we'd have to see what happens. However, having Radar Deprivation+Chaff+ECM+Cover+AMS+Mimimum Range would simply be too unbalanced. Something has to go, or LRMs would have to be buffed insanely to maintain their current balance.

[El Bandito]

Davers, on 20 August 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

NARC stays on for the full duration now. It isn't effected by damage.

And that's why I am asking to lower it to reasonable level. It used to be 30 but it was too low. Just make it to 90 and done.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 August 2014 - 05:24 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

Jakob Knight, on 20 August 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

What happened to Chaff? Easily answered. It was changed to a full module called Radar Deprivation. Thus, it traded being a consumable complete immunity shield for an entire team for being a permanent semi-immunity shield for the mounting unit.

Now, if you'd like to remove Radar Deprivation in favor of a consumable Chaff that would be in place of an Arty or Airstrike, then I suppose we'd have to see what happens. However, having Radar Deprivation+Chaff+ECM+Cover+AMS+Mimimum Range would simply be too unbalanced. Something has to go, or LRMs would have to be buffed insanely to maintain their current balance.

Until LRM's are reworked then it's a required system.

Look at how many counters ECM has, that's how you know it's over powered.

Look at how many counters LRM's have and (we still need more!) that's how you know they are over powered.

As mentioned numerous times they have painted themselves into a corner on missiles and ECM systems. So until they get the time to rework the system and they aren't going to get that time considering their engineers are going to be tied up for the next Year+ trying to get Community Warfare to us.

So yeah, when they redo missiles and ECM, then we can address the chaff module at that time.

Until then it's needed.

Besides i don't use Artillery or airstrikes, I play this game for "MECH" combat.

[clanwolf3050]

I think the idea of a Chaff module is good. I don't think it would help with your problem. If you are under an ECM umbrella you have to be targeted by NARC or TAG, they are used, in MWO, to cut through interference. If there are several waves of LRMs coming at you one chaff is not going to help much. Also, depending on the where the attack is coming from the missiles will hit you anyway. I think the key is something that isn't just for anti LRM.

A decoy may be a better idea. A UAV, for example the forces a re target. You get the "incoming missile" warning, or try to brake a target lock from enemies, launch the decoy UAV any system targeting you targets it instead. Missile locks are lost, target info gone. Enemies must now re target you. It may even help out your team as enemy players pushing "r" may target the decoy instead of a friendly. This may be your hole idea in the first place Carrioncrows. Its just not what I think of when I think of Chaff.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Carrioncrows, on 19 August 2014 - 07:47 PM, said:

You know the module that was supposed to be single use to make all missiles targeting you (Or better yet targeting mechs inside the Chaff template) lose lock for 4-5 seconds after you pop it?

I am so sick of LRM's every match.

Used to be that a single ton of AMS would last you the match. Now i'll be lucky if a single ton lasts me the first 3 minutes of the game (and I'm inside a ECM bubble not even being targeted!)

So I ask again....Where is my Chaff module?

Have you seen what happens when 12 people all carry AMS with a few tons? If yes, then you know how it really curbs the enemy's ability to get substantial LRM damage in.

If "No..."

Well, then carry more AMS, and encourage other to do it, too. Or, get on an open TeamSpeak server and join premades that carry AMS.

[Firemage]

Carrioncrows, on 19 August 2014 - 09:04 PM, said:

Radar Dep doesn't work in the open, and it doesn't help nearly enough.

I want a legit tactic of charging across the open and popping chaff along the way to get in among them.

I hate being anchored to the same damn 6 ECM variants.

If you are charging across an open field you have more problems than just lrm fire, hell i may not even waste LRMs on an sitting duck target and stick with direct fire weapons.

[wolf74]

I only Drop in Group queue's so I don't know the solo seen. But Using AMS is a Hit Miss item due the fact LRM mech seem to Hunt in packs like good Light mechs. I have use a 3xAMS mech with Range & OverDrive AMS modules (I carry between 5,000-17,000) Rounds of AMS depending on what I am seeing that Night.

Slow LRM Nights I will Use 500-1500 Rounds Per match
the Most That I have ever used in a Match so far was over 12,000 rounds of AMS ammo. (6tons of the 8.5tons ammo I was carrying that night).


Edit PS: Yes we did win that Match I used the 12,000 rounds in

Edited by wolf74, 20 August 2014 - 08:45 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

Prosperity Park, on 20 August 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:

Have you seen what happens when 12 people all carry AMS with a few tons? If yes, then you know how it really curbs the enemy's ability to get substantial LRM damage in.

If "No..."

Well, then carry more AMS, and encourage other to do it, too. Or, get on an open TeamSpeak server and join premades that carry AMS.

ANNNnnnnnnnd that might mater if AMS didn't have a 90m range.

So yeah if all 12 people are clustered with 90m of each other then that might make a difference until about 3 minutes into the match when everyone runs out of AMS ammo.

ECM is far more effective with a 180m range and once again as i've stated previously (Please do read the whole thread, because this is the 2nd, no 3rd time going over the same material) .....continuing on, as I stated previously I hate being bound to ECM bubble.

Firemage, on 20 August 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:

If you are charging across an open field you have more problems than just lrm fire, hell i may not even waste LRMs on an sitting duck target and stick with direct fire weapons.

See above about the whole "Read the whole thread" comment.

Because as i've said at the very least the only people that can fire at me once I pop Chaff are the ones that have LOS to me, and you know what that means I have LOS to them.

So game on. For sure. You fire at me, I fire at you leave all your LRM tuna boats to fire at other targets. Even if it's only for a few seconds I am down with that.

There is far more tactical functionality from the chaff model besides "JUST" charging across open ground.

With a system mechanic that only requires 1 out of 12 people to have LOS to you EVERYWHERE is open ground, the only place you could possible be save is with yer head stuck inches away from a wall (If it's tall enough that is!) Even then that only lasts until they adjust position.