101 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

So I owe PGI an apology on Clan Pulse Lasers. I ragged all over them seven ways from Sunday, they were too heavy, too little benefit, etc.

Then I dropped with Captain Blanton and some other friends in group queue and watched him wreck face with 7 CMPLs and 2xSRM6s.

I don't mean a little, I mean hardcore flat out wreck FACE with them. As in 'rebar with a hunk of cement on the end getting swung by the Hulk at baby kittens' sort of wrecked face.

So I took my own twist on it and went with 2xCLPL, 4xCMPLs and like 6 or 7 extra DHS.

Hot damn. Seriously, it's 50pts of damage that's not hard to make pinpoint up close and runs terribly cool. I get 3 or 4 alpha strikes and if I have the target in sight for a few seconds (like brawling) I can essentially chain those bad boys up in 3 groups of 2 and just roll pain on someone in short, sharp bursts until I get tired of the scrolling 'component destroyed' message up the left side of my screen.

Clan pluse lasers are the BOMB DIGGITY.

So, eating crow on that one. It does, however, still taste like winning.

Anyone else finding magic in those clan Pulse Lasers?

[Crunk Prime]

Pulse lasers are always a waste of tonnage.

Always.

Use the tonnage you save with regular lasers to get more heatsinks/ammo/armor and learn how to properly aim so you can keep lasers on targets.

[Ultimax]

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

So I owe PGI an apology on Clan Pulse Lasers. I ragged all over them seven ways from Sunday, they were too heavy, too little benefit, etc.

Then I dropped with Captain Blanton and some other friends in group queue and watched him wreck face with 7 CMPLs and 2xSRM6s.

I don't mean a little, I mean hardcore flat out wreck FACE with them. As in 'rebar with a hunk of cement on the end getting swung by the Hulk at baby kittens' sort of wrecked face.

So I took my own twist on it and went with 2xCLPL, 4xCMPLs and like 6 or 7 extra DHS.

Hot damn. Seriously, it's 50pts of damage that's not hard to make pinpoint up close and runs terribly cool. I get 3 or 4 alpha strikes and if I have the target in sight for a few seconds (like brawling) I can essentially chain those bad boys up in 3 groups of 2 and just roll pain on someone in short, sharp bursts until I get tired of the scrolling 'component destroyed' message up the left side of my screen.

Clan pluse lasers are the BOMB DIGGITY.

So, eating crow on that one. It does, however, still taste like winning.

Anyone else finding magic in those clan Pulse Lasers?

You can do basically the same thing with cERMLAS - although the cERLLAS are clearly gimpy right now.

Swap your build to 2x cLPL + 4x cERMLAS > get more DHS, and the burn durations are the same.

If the cERLLAS weren't basically unusable, I wouldn't even mention the cLPLs - but they are effectively the only "large" laser option available right now.


Doing well with a suboptimal weapon doesn't mean the weapon is better than that, it just means that you/the player is able to work with less for good results. You'd get even better results with a better weapon.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 23 August 2014 - 11:34 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

My complaint with IS pulse was never the heat or tonnage, but with range. Pulse lasers ability to front load damage is so nice, but unless you had LPLasers, the range limitations were brutal.

Since clan weapons gave such great range, I would imagine that Clan Pulse must be amazing. Yea a bit hot and heavy, but it addresses the clan beam duration and does it with still respectable range.

I'd imagine that I would be trying quite a few pulse laser builds if I had a clan mech. As it stands now, I have an IS Thunderbolt with 5 MPLasers and I like it...when an enemy is close.

[Marauder3D]

Crunk Prime, on 23 August 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

Pulse lasers are always a waste of tonnage.

Always.

Use the tonnage you save with regular lasers to get more heatsinks/ammo/armor and learn how to properly aim so you can keep lasers on targets.

Love responses like this. Sounds like someone who wanted the 2.0 burn time on CERLL.

[wanderer]

Crunk Prime, on 23 August 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

Pulse lasers are always a waste of tonnage.

Always.

Use the tonnage you save with regular lasers to get more heatsinks/ammo/armor and learn how to properly aim so you can keep lasers on targets.

Crunk, I mostly agree...except for CLPL's. I can't hang out in the open for 2 seconds straight on a Kit Fox and expect to have parts not shot off. CMPL/CSPL's, the ER version is better IMHO.

[Bishop Steiner]

Marauder3D, on 23 August 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

Love responses like this. Sounds like someone who wanted the 2.0 burn time on CERLL.

Just consider the source. It's the [redacted], so what do you expect?

Ultimatum X, on 23 August 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

You can do basically the same thing with cERMLAS - although the cERLLAS are clearly gimpy right now.

Swap your build to 2x cLPL + 4x cERMLAS > get more DHS, and the burn durations are the same.

If the cERLLAS weren't basically unusable, I wouldn't even mention the cLPLs - but they are effectively the only "large" laser option available right now.


Doing well with a suboptimal weapon doesn't mean the weapon is better than that, it just means that you/the player is able to work with less for good results. You'd get even better results with a better weapon.

Can't agree with you fully. Believe it or not, the difference in burn duration can be very very useful. I have MPL on 2 summoner builds, for the same reason i have 2 on my YLW. The quick burst is better for CQB brawling. And the little differences add up over the course of a match.

They may not be "optimal", but the guy who was 1st or second in Clan Heavies for the last tourney, Ghozzt? I'm in CGB International with him. His build of choice? 7 MPL.

That seems to be a little matter of more that just doing good with a bad weapon.

*edit, my bad, he fell to 4th on Monday apparently. Guess Unlike some clans he couldn't find someone to keep playing his account while he slept.

Edited by Egomane, 01 September 2014 - 10:11 PM.
insult

[Crunk Prime]

wanderer, on 23 August 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

Crunk, I mostly agree...except for CLPL's. I can't hang out in the open for 2 seconds straight on a Kit Fox and expect to have parts not shot off. CMPL/CSPL's, the ER version is better IMHO.

Using clan ERLLs over large pulses saves you 4 tons if you are taking them in pairs. That 4 tons can be used for much better things than a fraction of a second faster burn time for basically the same damage.

I just laugh whenever I run into a mech with pulse lasers because I know hes going to be running hotter and doing less damage to other people because he'll be running hotter and have less weaponry because of all the extra tonnage sucked up by pulse lasers, as well as have shorter effective range than everyone using regular or ER lasers.

Pulse lasers are almost a straight up downgrade in every way.

Edited by Crunk Prime, 23 August 2014 - 11:49 AM.

[MischiefSC]

I run CERMLs all the time. 4xCERMLs go on almost every timby build I've run for the last 600+ drops I have in a Timby. I'm pretty familiar with it.

I can pretty much poptart with the MPLs they're fast enough. At 400m range that's about on par with where all the good fighting takes place. The LPLs go to 600m, which is PPC range. With a burn time of about 1 second they're a bit long for sniper work but up close they're a good heavy-hitting option.

Try them. Seriously. The cooler running squeezes an extra couple of shots. While 4 extra DHS would help you still peak pretty quickly on heat with burning 4 CERMLs.

Also... no ammo, which while Clan Case is great and all still gives you a popped arm or torso more often thanks to crits. Pure energy build tanks very well and does a lot of precise damage.

If you play precise give them a try. I'm finding excellent results.

Crunk Prime, on 23 August 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

Using clan ERLLs over large pulses saves you 4 tons if you are taking them in pairs. That 4 tons can be used for much better things than a fraction of a second faster burn time for basically the same damage.

I just laugh whenever I run into a mech with pulse lasers because I know hes going to be running hotter and doing less damage to other people because he'll be running hotter and have less weaponry because of all the extra tonnage sucked up by pulse lasers, as well as have shorter effective range than everyone using regular or ER lasers.

Pulse lasers are almost a straight up downgrade in every way.

Being done shooting .3 seconds sooner is 1/3rd the duration of a ISML. Being able to twist away 1/3rd of that damage and any other laser damage by comparison matters. Pulse don't make you stare down like the ERs and ACs do. ACs require a lot of staring as well. A solid pulse build is about 30% "quicker", all the way around. Damage in, burn done, twist away, 30% faster.

That's enough to be significant. Also... check the stats. They're cooler.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

I run CERMLs all the time. 4xCERMLs go on almost every timby build I've run for the last 600+ drops I have in a Timby. I'm pretty familiar with it.

I can pretty much poptart with the MPLs they're fast enough. At 400m range that's about on par with where all the good fighting takes place. The LPLs go to 600m, which is PPC range. With a burn time of about 1 second they're a bit long for sniper work but up close they're a good heavy-hitting option.

Try them. Seriously. The cooler running squeezes an extra couple of shots. While 4 extra DHS would help you still peak pretty quickly on heat with burning 4 CERMLs.

Also... no ammo, which while Clan Case is great and all still gives you a popped arm or torso more often thanks to crits. Pure energy build tanks very well and does a lot of precise damage.

If you play precise give them a try. I'm finding excellent results.



Being done shooting .3 seconds sooner is 1/3rd the duration of a ISML. Being able to twist away 1/3rd of that damage and any other laser damage by comparison matters. Pulse don't make you stare down like the ERs and ACs do. ACs require a lot of staring as well. A solid pulse build is about 30% "quicker", all the way around. Damage in, burn done, twist away, 30% faster.

That's enough to be significant. Also... check the stats. They're cooler.

Most will just keep repeating their broken record opinions. Smurfywarriors.. But A+ for effort.

[Crunk Prime]

Ive always found pure energy builds to be pretty crappy. Unless you are a light mech, energyboats can ALWAYS benefit from having a ballistic chucked in somewhere because of how little heat they make.

Its why Madkittys and Daishees are so brutal right now. they cna can carry a huge ballistic along with tons of energy weapons.

[MischiefSC]

Crunk Prime, on 23 August 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

Ive always found pure energy builds to be pretty crappy. Unless you are a light mech, energyboats can ALWAYS benefit from having a ballistic chucked in somewhere because of how little heat they make.

Its why Madkittys and Daishees are so brutal right now. they cna can carry a huge ballistic along with tons of energy weapons.

And I've got 600 drops + doing that. In fact the 2xUAC5 or 2xLB5x + 4xCERMLs is my go-to build for probably 350 or so of those drops, if not more. The LB5X one you drop a CERLL in the RT for some long-range poke and that last point blank shot.

I'm not new, this ain't my first ride in a TW.

I'm saying though that if you're good with IS ACs (I love my D-DC) and know how to do the twist the pulse lasers actually rock steady.

Do your damage 33% faster, twist away, rinse and repeat. The cooling difference between the pulse and ER lasers is actually more than the small heat cap bump you get so you get 1 more full string of burn. The ACs, especially UACs, require a LOT of staredown. You learn to ignore that screenshake and the pulse let you twist and fire, twist and fire.

Like old school, before the clans and their DPS heavy builds showed up to take the spotlight.

[Crunk Prime]

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

And I've got 600 drops + doing that. In fact the 2xUAC5 or 2xLB5x + 4xCERMLs is my go-to build for probably 350 or so of those drops, if not more. The LB5X one you drop a CERLL in the RT for some long-range poke and that last point blank shot.

I'm not new, this ain't my first ride in a TW.

I'm saying though that if you're good with IS ACs (I love my D-DC) and know how to do the twist the pulse lasers actually rock steady.

Do your damage 33% faster, twist away, rinse and repeat. The cooling difference between the pulse and ER lasers is actually more than the small heat cap bump you get so you get 1 more full string of burn. The ACs, especially UACs, require a LOT of staredown. You learn to ignore that screenshake and the pulse let you twist and fire, twist and fire.

Like old school, before the clans and their DPS heavy builds showed up to take the spotlight.

The funny thing about torso twisting in MWO is that it doesnt work that well. Even when you twist away, all people have to do is aim a little higher than your arms and they can still hit your CT/side torso hitboxes. Or they just alpha strike you in the face every time you torso twist back to face them. Hell, torso twisting in MWO can make people even easier to kill because it makes hitting their back easier. Ive had DDCs twist in front of me and I just aim up and to the side and blow out their back side torso.

[MischiefSC]

Crunk Prime, on 23 August 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

The funny thing about torso twisting in MWO is that it doesnt work that well. Even when you twist away, all people have to do is aim a little higher than your arms and they can still hit your CT/side torso hitboxes. Or they just alpha strike you in the face every time you torso twist back to face them. Hell, torso twisting in MWO can make people even easier to kill because it makes hitting their back easier. Ive had DDCs twist in front of me and I just aim up and to the side and blow out their back side torso.

I watched you get roasted in a 1v1 duel between Dire Wolves on HPG by someone who did torso twist and you didn't.

So your argument is... torso twisting to spread damage doesn't work? That's why pulse lasers are bad, but regular lasers are good and so are UAC?

K. Good luck with that one cowboy.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

So I owe PGI an apology on Clan Pulse Lasers. I ragged all over them seven ways from Sunday, they were too heavy, too little benefit, etc.

Then I dropped with Captain Blanton and some other friends in group queue and watched him wreck face with 7 CMPLs and 2xSRM6s.

I don't mean a little, I mean hardcore flat out wreck FACE with them. As in 'rebar with a hunk of cement on the end getting swung by the Hulk at baby kittens' sort of wrecked face.

So I took my own twist on it and went with 2xCLPL, 4xCMPLs and like 6 or 7 extra DHS.

Hot damn. Seriously, it's 50pts of damage that's not hard to make pinpoint up close and runs terribly cool. I get 3 or 4 alpha strikes and if I have the target in sight for a few seconds (like brawling) I can essentially chain those bad boys up in 3 groups of 2 and just roll pain on someone in short, sharp bursts until I get tired of the scrolling 'component destroyed' message up the left side of my screen.

Clan pluse lasers are the BOMB DIGGITY.

So, eating crow on that one. It does, however, still taste like winning.

Anyone else finding magic in those clan Pulse Lasers?

They've always been good. A timber-c with 7C-PLs and a phat targeting computer will strip the arms and legs off a mech in seconds.

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 August 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

Most will just keep repeating their broken record opinions. Smurfywarriors.. But A+ for effort.

Give it a run. The Timby boats lasers rather well, I bet the Stormcrow does too. Run less DHS overall but with pulse instead of ER and run it like it was an oldschool AC/PPC face-buster. You get used to that hitscan accuracy and a bit of careful mousework for aiming and it's just flat out performing better for me. You don't have to rely on AC screenshake to throw the guys aim off while you give him the UAC/CERML staredown.

[FDJustin]

Stop trying to teach the TW pilots how to torso twist. I finally know where the most vulnurable point is, and it relies on the glassy death stare! Oh, and not dying for at least 6 seconds upon engagement. Which is extremely difficult regardless of loadout when using a Firestarter.

[MischiefSC]

lockwoodx, on 23 August 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

They've always been good. A timber-c with 7C-PLs and a phat targeting computer will strip the arms and legs off a mech in seconds.

Oh crap... the TC and the range boost!

[Red1769]

My best Dire Whale uses paired LPLs and UAC 10s as their main weapons. I only have the LRM 15 rack to get assists and annoy people. It also runs extremely cool. Only on Therma do I sometimes run the risk of overheating. On my long ranged Whale, I'm tempted to switch the ERPPCs with LPLs...but I haven't taken it out for a spin yet since the nerf, so we'll see.

The IS's versions do need help still, though...

Edited by Red1769, 23 August 2014 - 12:38 PM.

[MischiefSC]

IS pulse are still terrible. Range is just flat out way too short. Clanner pulse though... 400m is viable. Like an IS LL. Shorter burn time, bit less damage and comparable heat but only 2 tons and it doesn't have the same low Ghost Heat cap letting you boat them.

It's a solid weapon, I've been impressed with it.