101 replies to this topic

[Budor]

I switched to 2 lpl and 4 ml after the erll burn time nerf for lols and kept it because it rips through stuff in the solo queue. Easy of use cannot be overestimated, get in range and alpha. I got RA, LA and CT firegroups for shooting round corners, unlocking for slopes and tickling at max range but most of the time i just press space...

Had a 5 or so run with games 1300-1400 dmg few days ago, it is extremely effective just need to stay on the move.

[MischiefSC]

Budor, on 23 August 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

I switched to 2 lpl and 4 ml after the erll burn time nerf for lols and kept it because it rips through stuff in the solo queue. Easy of use cannot be overestimated, get in range and alpha. I got RA, LA and CT firegroups for shooting round corners, unlocking for slopes and tickling at max range but most of the time i just press space...

Had a 5 or so run with games 1300-1400 dmg few days ago, it is extremely effective just need to stay on the move.

I love me some CERMLs.

Have a stab at dropping the TC and some DHS for MPLs though. I've ragged on them for pages and pages before but when you know how to stick and move...

I'm pleasantly surprised.

[Budor]

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

I love me some CERMLs.

Have a stab at dropping the TC and some DHS for MPLs though. I've ragged on them for pages and pages before but when you know how to stick and move...

I'm pleasantly surprised.

Ill try that tomorrow but i think itll be to hot for me ^^

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 August 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

Can't agree with you fully. Believe it or not, the difference in burn duration can be very very useful.

I agree that burn duration can be useful, but for clan pulse lasers we are still near one second for MPLs, for the same alpha damage and the same heat.

It's a marginal "DPS" increase, but once you get stuck in a brawl having 4 to 7 more DHS, completely viable on something like a Timberwolf or Stormcrow, the efficiency tips the scale IMO at that point to hugely favor the standard cERMLAS.

cLPL is a special case, because IMO it's better than the cERLLAS at the moment due to how bad the cERLLAS is.

It's not hotter, it's just heavier but some builds can spare the tonnage.

Bishop Steiner, on 23 August 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

They may not be "optimal", but the guy who was 1st or second in Clan Heavies for the last tourney, Ghozzt? I'm in CGB International with him. His build of choice? 7 MPL.

That seems to be a little matter of more that just doing good with a bad weapon.

We can talk trends once this is beyond one good player.

Anything else is really just an anecdote. Kudos to your friend though, and grats on 4th - it's nothing to be disappointed about.

Crunk Prime, on 23 August 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

Using clan ERLLs over large pulses saves you 4 tons if you are taking them in pairs. That 4 tons can be used for much better things than a fraction of a second faster burn time for basically the same damage.

I just laugh whenever I run into a mech with pulse lasers because I know hes going to be running hotter and doing less damage to other people because he'll be running hotter and have less weaponry because of all the extra tonnage sucked up by pulse lasers, as well as have shorter effective range than everyone using regular or ER lasers.

For several mechs, I would put the clan LPL vs. the cERLLAS any day of the week right now.

[MischiefSC]

The difference is that with a 50pt alpha you can get out in less than 1 second. The difference between 0.6 and 1.0 second burn time means something anymore with clan lasers around. I'm spreading 1/3rd the CERML damage I take around while doing my full load in the same spot on the target.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ultimatum X, on 23 August 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

You can do basically the same thing with cERMLAS - although the cERLLAS are clearly gimpy right now.

Swap your build to 2x cLPL + 4x cERMLAS > get more DHS, and the burn durations are the same.

If the cERLLAS weren't basically unusable, I wouldn't even mention the cLPLs - but they are effectively the only "large" laser option available right now.


Doing well with a suboptimal weapon doesn't mean the weapon is better than that, it just means that you/the player is able to work with less for good results. You'd get even better results with a better weapon.

Yeah exactly this.

C- LPL isn't bad to be honest. They run fairly cool and have a good range. Burn time is way too long considering it is suppose to be a pulse laser but when you look at the alternatives which are the ER PPC which is massively hotter or the C-ER LL which is not only hotter but damn near unusable with its LOL 2 second burst, you just don't have any good options if your a bit heat starved. If you can deal with the heat however, the ER PPC is hands down a better option, even with the slower projectile speeds.

The C-MPL however just doesn't have anywhere near enough going for it when you compare it to the excellent C-ER ML. It is twice as heavy and has a shorter range with a just barely shorter burn time. Your much better off taking the 4 tons you would save buy going with C-ER MLs and use that weight on Heat Sinks, a Targeting Computer/Active Probe or even an AMS.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 23 August 2014 - 01:30 PM.

[MischiefSC]

I get that. I've been doing it for 600+ matches.

Here, in fact, are my CERML stats - the only clan mech I own is a TW.
C-ER MED LASER 309 23,227 20,213 87.02% 1 day 00:28:46 81,638

I'm saying that the 0.4 second burn time on MPLs and the lower heat per shot adds up pretty quickly. The days of PPFLD are coming to an end. That horn is blown. The question now is, what's next?

[Roland]

The clan large pulse is a decent weapon, but mainly because the erll has been nerfed info dust.

The clan large pulse pairs well with the erml, in terms of both range and burn time.

Not sure if i would ever use the cermpl though.

[Biglead]

Ladies and gentlemen I present to you... The first thread in MWO history where someone said pulse lasers are good. Stay with me as I cover this point in history that will redefine this game as we know it.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Crunk Prime, on 23 August 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

Pulse lasers are always a waste of tonnage.

Always.

Use the tonnage you save with regular lasers to get more heatsinks/ammo/armor and learn how to properly aim so you can keep lasers on targets.

Why would you need more ammo with PLs?

Bonus question: If it works for him, why would he change?

[MischiefSC]

Call this the 'MPL Challenge'.

Do it. Quit Smurfy-warrioring, load some up and give it a try. Play to that 0.4 second reduced burn time, shoot and twist.

Pure pulse load of your choice for Clan mechs.

[Koniks]

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

I love me some CERMLs.

Have a stab at dropping the TC and some DHS for MPLs though. I've ragged on them for pages and pages before but when you know how to stick and move...

I'm pleasantly surprised.

Why wouldn't you just take a TCMK4 with 4xERML instead of 4xMPLs? They share the same burn time with the LPLs and the TC gets you added crit chances and range.

[SilentWolff]

Crunk Prime, on 23 August 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

Pulse lasers are always a waste of tonnage.

Always.

Use the tonnage you save with regular lasers to get more heatsinks/ammo/armor and learn how to properly aim so you can keep lasers on targets.

Before the nerf to the Clan ERLL yes, now, not so much.

[MischiefSC]

Mizeur, on 23 August 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

Why wouldn't you just take a TCMK4 with 4xERML instead of 4xMPLs? They share the same burn time with the LPLs and the TC gets you added crit chances and range.

Tried that plenty.

Difference is burn time on the lasers. You get a 40% faster burntime with the MPLs, so you shoot and move. Result? My 4 MPLs do their 28 points on target while their CERMLs do about 16, spreading the remaining 12 points on other locations.

It's significant, especially when fighting other Clan mechs. More so than the 11 or so meters of extra range the TC was giving me or the tiny shift on crits; blowing the location out with 40% more damage was more valuable.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Budor, on 23 August 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

*This is my mech bay*

Edited by lockwoodx, 23 August 2014 - 02:57 PM.

[Mcgral18]

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

Call this the 'MPL Challenge'.

Do it. Quit Smurfy-warrioring, load some up and give it a try. Play to that 0.4 second reduced burn time, shoot and twist.

Pure pulse load of your choice for Clan mechs.

I've done the WubShee quite often...I'll say it's substandard, but has a niche on one of ten maps. Over 1000 damage is quite possible, if the other team isn't aggressive and lets you cooldown. Record being 1470 and 8 kills, or 9 kills with less damage. Still a LOL build with a 400XL and as many heatsinks as you can physically fit in the Banshee.

The WubFox...can be surprising. One of the few non-Magic Jesus Box builds I have for it. 4 MPLs and 16 DHS (and lacking 3 engine DHS...PGI!!)

It doesn't do poorly, like a slow Jenner F, but more heat efficient with more range. Just slow as balls.


I did have one interesting match earlier today...note the time left...





I managed to lose 2 Dire Whales in the city, then managed to kite them after I finally found them again.

Far from usual, though. That's the PUG life for you.

[KuroNyra]

....
What did you say before?

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 23 August 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

I've done the WubShee quite often...I'll say it's substandard, but has a niche on one of ten maps. Over 1000 damage is quite possible, if the other team isn't aggressive and lets you cooldown. Record being 1470 and 8 kills, or 9 kills with less damage. Still a LOL build with a 400XL and as many heatsinks as you can physically fit in the Banshee.

The WubFox...can be surprising. One of the few non-Magic Jesus Box builds I have for it. 4 MPLs and 16 DHS (and lacking 3 engine DHS...PGI!!)

It doesn't do poorly, like a slow Jenner F, but more heat efficient with more range. Just slow as balls.


I did have one interesting match earlier today...note the time left...





I managed to lose 2 Dire Whales in the city, then managed to kite them after I finally found them again.

Far from usual, though. That's the PUG life for you.

With this telemetry, Paul will nerf the wubfox.

We can't have nice things.

You are OP.

[MischiefSC]

Mcgral18, on 23 August 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

I've done the WubShee quite often...I'll say it's substandard, but has a niche on one of ten maps. Over 1000 damage is quite possible, if the other team isn't aggressive and lets you cooldown. Record being 1470 and 8 kills, or 9 kills with less damage. Still a LOL build with a 400XL and as many heatsinks as you can physically fit in the Banshee.

The WubFox...can be surprising. One of the few non-Magic Jesus Box builds I have for it. 4 MPLs and 16 DHS (and lacking 3 engine DHS...PGI!!)

It doesn't do poorly, like a slow Jenner F, but more heat efficient with more range. Just slow as balls.


I did have one interesting match earlier today...note the time left...





I managed to lose 2 Dire Whales in the city, then managed to kite them after I finally found them again.

Far from usual, though. That's the PUG life for you.

Due props! I've run a WubShee before and it's fun but not exemplary.

Clan pulse are a whole other ball of wax though.

The LPLs are nice but not special.

MPLs....

Well, like I said. They harken back to the days of BOOMtwistBOOM D-DC face-hump rampages. I'm chewing up UAC and ERML Timbys left and right and it's rare I go down in a match without both arms, a leg and one side torso gone. She tanks like a proper beast and I'm doing flat out stupid damage match after match and taking+stealing a lot of kills. I've pretty much got a laser busting on someone nonstop, easy to get the killshot.

KuroNyra, on 23 August 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

....
What did you say before?

That all pulse lasers are bad and people should feel bad for bringing them.

Edited by MischiefSC, 23 August 2014 - 03:35 PM.

[Roland]

The IS pulse lasers are still pretty terrible.

The clan pulse are generally also pretty bad, but with the most recent nerfs, the erll is even worse.

Like i said though, in skeptical about the clan medium pulse.. If have to check the stats, but the cerml is easily one of the best weapons in the entire game, so I find it hard to believe the medium pulse is better.