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I want to hear Kjudoon say it - because all this stuff he's talking about 'doing for fun' he could do in private queues with 100% certainty of success or in the group queue and keep people in organized groups.
Instead they seem to be putting up with a lot of failures and inconvenience (and, I'm sure 'never ever ever dropping when they fail to sync' of course) in order to stay in the solo queue.
So why don't private queues work again for special matches?
9
Can You Stop The Practice Pgi?
Started by Mudhutwarrior, Aug 23 2014 11:37 AM
946 replies to this topic
#562
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:41 PM
Ok, let's all step back a bit. I realized where this has gone...
At this point, Kjudoon is kind of backed into a corner, and just doesn't like the position he's in where the implication is that his unit is intentionally preying upon solo players. I believe that truly, in his mind, that is not his conscious intention.
However, the problem is that while it is not his conscious intention, it is a perhaps unintended consequence. In cases where sync drops don't put folks on the same team, then it is effectively a normal drop. But ANY time multiple folks on comms get put onto a single team, then then have an unfair advantage. The magnitude of that advantage is effectively unimportant, because everyone accepts that it exists. That's why the queues have been separated.
Indeed, that advantage in itself was cited by Kudjoon himself, in reference to the group queue where it's too competitive.. basically just because the only other folks playing there are in groups.
I think that in order to come to some kind of consensus here, and end this slapfight, we need to accept that Kudjoon's unit did not INTEND to beat up on solo folks and gain some advantage over them... However, I think he needs to accept that in these cases, that is in fact what was happening at times, and that may have negatively impacted the game for folks who were choosing to play in the queue specifically designed for ungrouped players.
The reality is that today, the group queue is not at all "competitive" in the way that the old 12 man queue was.. why? Because it's trivial to get a group and play in it.
The vast majority of players in the group queue now are just small groups of two to four players. Periodically you'll run up against a large group. You know what? Most of them are terrible. Even in those cases it's not an automatic loss (just like in the solo queue, going up against a group with sync droppers is not an automatic loss).
As such, I would suggest that the Seraphim start looking to the group queue for playing together, as the notion of sync dropping seems against their stated purpose and persona as a unit. By all accounts, their unit is put together to be a friendly and stand up group of pilots.
At this point, Kjudoon is kind of backed into a corner, and just doesn't like the position he's in where the implication is that his unit is intentionally preying upon solo players. I believe that truly, in his mind, that is not his conscious intention.
However, the problem is that while it is not his conscious intention, it is a perhaps unintended consequence. In cases where sync drops don't put folks on the same team, then it is effectively a normal drop. But ANY time multiple folks on comms get put onto a single team, then then have an unfair advantage. The magnitude of that advantage is effectively unimportant, because everyone accepts that it exists. That's why the queues have been separated.
Indeed, that advantage in itself was cited by Kudjoon himself, in reference to the group queue where it's too competitive.. basically just because the only other folks playing there are in groups.
I think that in order to come to some kind of consensus here, and end this slapfight, we need to accept that Kudjoon's unit did not INTEND to beat up on solo folks and gain some advantage over them... However, I think he needs to accept that in these cases, that is in fact what was happening at times, and that may have negatively impacted the game for folks who were choosing to play in the queue specifically designed for ungrouped players.
The reality is that today, the group queue is not at all "competitive" in the way that the old 12 man queue was.. why? Because it's trivial to get a group and play in it.
The vast majority of players in the group queue now are just small groups of two to four players. Periodically you'll run up against a large group. You know what? Most of them are terrible. Even in those cases it's not an automatic loss (just like in the solo queue, going up against a group with sync droppers is not an automatic loss).
As such, I would suggest that the Seraphim start looking to the group queue for playing together, as the notion of sync dropping seems against their stated purpose and persona as a unit. By all accounts, their unit is put together to be a friendly and stand up group of pilots.
#563
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:43 PM
Spoken like someone who refuses to understand after 28 pages of discussing the issue.
When you sync drop it's random chance to be with or against each other which adds to the fun. You never know who's going to be with you in your group or against you mixed into the rest.
I'm sorry that you refuse to get this kind of fun or look down your nose at those of us who enjoy this permitted form of gameplay, but that's not my problem.
When you sync drop it's random chance to be with or against each other which adds to the fun. You never know who's going to be with you in your group or against you mixed into the rest.
I'm sorry that you refuse to get this kind of fun or look down your nose at those of us who enjoy this permitted form of gameplay, but that's not my problem.
#564
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:44 PM
Kjudoon, on 27 August 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:
Spoken like someone who refuses to understand after 28 pages of discussing the issue.
When you sync drop it's random chance to be with or against each other which adds to the fun. You never know who's going to be with you in your group or against you mixed into the rest.
I'm sorry that you refuse to get this kind of fun or look down your nose at those of us who enjoy this permitted form of gameplay, but that's not my problem.
When you sync drop it's random chance to be with or against each other which adds to the fun. You never know who's going to be with you in your group or against you mixed into the rest.
I'm sorry that you refuse to get this kind of fun or look down your nose at those of us who enjoy this permitted form of gameplay, but that's not my problem.
Roland extends a peace branch and you screw up again. Well done.......
#565
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:47 PM
I've had Roland on ignore for 12 pages now. I've seen no 'peace branch' because all I keep hearing is impossible or silly solutions when I see quoted things from him.
And now you can join him for the same reasons of trolly worthlessness. Don't worry, I know you don't care. Just keeping you in the loop.
And now you can join him for the same reasons of trolly worthlessness. Don't worry, I know you don't care. Just keeping you in the loop.
Edited by Kjudoon, 27 August 2014 - 07:47 PM.
#566
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:52 PM
Yeah, I think he may actually have me on ignore and didn't read it, and may have been replying to Mischief.
#567
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:52 PM
OMG im on ignore what should i do? The impossible solution is for you too quit syncdropping in solo too farm cbills and xp. You cant do that so we will let the devs decide. Hopefully they will come to the right conclusion and realize how exploitable this is before something bad happens.
#568
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:53 PM
Roland, on 27 August 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:
Ok, let's all step back a bit. I realized where this has gone...
At this point, Kjudoon is kind of backed into a corner, and just doesn't like the position he's in where the implication is that his unit is intentionally preying upon solo players. I believe that truly, in his mind, that is not his conscious intention.
However, the problem is that while it is not his conscious intention, it is a perhaps unintended consequence. In cases where sync drops don't put folks on the same team, then it is effectively a normal drop. But ANY time multiple folks on comms get put onto a single team, then then have an unfair advantage. The magnitude of that advantage is effectively unimportant, because everyone accepts that it exists. That's why the queues have been separated.
Indeed, that advantage in itself was cited by Kudjoon himself, in reference to the group queue where it's too competitive.. basically just because the only other folks playing there are in groups.
I think that in order to come to some kind of consensus here, and end this slapfight, we need to accept that Kudjoon's unit did not INTEND to beat up on solo folks and gain some advantage over them... However, I think he needs to accept that in these cases, that is in fact what was happening at times, and that may have negatively impacted the game for folks who were choosing to play in the queue specifically designed for ungrouped players.
The reality is that today, the group queue is not at all "competitive" in the way that the old 12 man queue was.. why? Because it's trivial to get a group and play in it.
The vast majority of players in the group queue now are just small groups of two to four players. Periodically you'll run up against a large group. You know what? Most of them are terrible. Even in those cases it's not an automatic loss (just like in the solo queue, going up against a group with sync droppers is not an automatic loss).
As such, I would suggest that the Seraphim start looking to the group queue for playing together, as the notion of sync dropping seems against their stated purpose and persona as a unit. By all accounts, their unit is put together to be a friendly and stand up group of pilots.
At this point, Kjudoon is kind of backed into a corner, and just doesn't like the position he's in where the implication is that his unit is intentionally preying upon solo players. I believe that truly, in his mind, that is not his conscious intention.
However, the problem is that while it is not his conscious intention, it is a perhaps unintended consequence. In cases where sync drops don't put folks on the same team, then it is effectively a normal drop. But ANY time multiple folks on comms get put onto a single team, then then have an unfair advantage. The magnitude of that advantage is effectively unimportant, because everyone accepts that it exists. That's why the queues have been separated.
Indeed, that advantage in itself was cited by Kudjoon himself, in reference to the group queue where it's too competitive.. basically just because the only other folks playing there are in groups.
I think that in order to come to some kind of consensus here, and end this slapfight, we need to accept that Kudjoon's unit did not INTEND to beat up on solo folks and gain some advantage over them... However, I think he needs to accept that in these cases, that is in fact what was happening at times, and that may have negatively impacted the game for folks who were choosing to play in the queue specifically designed for ungrouped players.
The reality is that today, the group queue is not at all "competitive" in the way that the old 12 man queue was.. why? Because it's trivial to get a group and play in it.
The vast majority of players in the group queue now are just small groups of two to four players. Periodically you'll run up against a large group. You know what? Most of them are terrible. Even in those cases it's not an automatic loss (just like in the solo queue, going up against a group with sync droppers is not an automatic loss).
As such, I would suggest that the Seraphim start looking to the group queue for playing together, as the notion of sync dropping seems against their stated purpose and persona as a unit. By all accounts, their unit is put together to be a friendly and stand up group of pilots.
#569
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:53 PM
Regardless, that's where he's coming from. He's not going to admit something that implicates his unit or paints it in a poor light, because truthfully, his unit does not have the bad intentions that we may have attributed to them.
But the road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say.
But the road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say.
#570
Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:02 PM
MischiefSC, on 27 August 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:
Yes, but why again?
Roland, on 27 August 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:
Because it is harder than killing disorganized solo players as a group?
One thing I just want to inject
you two sound like Mud when talking about solo players. They aren't mindless drooling nose pickers who can't play. There's a HUGE difference in the type of solo team you get in the lower and lwer-mid range Elo brackets than what you get at the higher to mid-higher Elo brackets.
I know my light Elo is much MUCH lower than my Assault Elo. There is a HUGE difference in the quality of team I get when I drop in an assault and the quality of team I get when I drop in a light.
#571
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:03 PM
Im glad to join the ranks of the total worthlessness. Hopefully now i wont have too get up to go to work tommorow. Anyways, not really holding it against the seraphrim, They just need to change up how they do business. One individual does not make a clan.
#572
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:04 PM
Roland, on 27 August 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:
Sand, unless sync droppers constitute some significant portion of the queue, there is no way that forcing them to be in separate games if they are in the same unit could have any noticeable impact on search times.
Making such a change would just prevent the small number of cases where it happens, and prevent people from trying it... And it would be pretty trivial to implement.
Making such a change would just prevent the small number of cases where it happens, and prevent people from trying it... And it would be pretty trivial to implement.
If it's a small number of cases, why should they even bother and why should you guys be all in a dither about it?
MischiefSC, on 27 August 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:
I want to hear Kjudoon say it - because all this stuff he's talking about 'doing for fun' he could do in private queues with 100% certainty of success or in the group queue and keep people in organized groups.
Instead they seem to be putting up with a lot of failures and inconvenience (and, I'm sure 'never ever ever dropping when they fail to sync' of course) in order to stay in the solo queue.
So why don't private queues work again for special matches?
Instead they seem to be putting up with a lot of failures and inconvenience (and, I'm sure 'never ever ever dropping when they fail to sync' of course) in order to stay in the solo queue.
So why don't private queues work again for special matches?
Perhaps it's the no rewards bit?
Oh and way to toss in the insult there.
beerandasmoke, on 27 August 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:
OMG im on ignore what should i do? The impossible solution is for you too quit syncdropping in solo too farm cbills and xp. You cant do that so we will let the devs decide. Hopefully they will come to the right conclusion and realize how exploitable this is before something bad happens.
If it's exploitable, wouldn't it be obvious by now? Pretty sure they realize it's the same crowd whining over it and just don't buy your doom and gloom.
Kind of like LRMs, they are only OP in the Solo queue where you can always find people who stand in the open and run away from LRMs. Which is why they aren't nerfed any more than they are.
#573
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:05 PM
Sandpit, on 27 August 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:
One thing I just want to inject
you two sound like Mud when talking about solo players. They aren't mindless drooling nose pickers who can't play. There's a HUGE difference in the type of solo team you get in the lower and lwer-mid range Elo brackets than what you get at the higher to mid-higher Elo brackets.
I know my light Elo is much MUCH lower than my Assault Elo. There is a HUGE difference in the quality of team I get when I drop in an assault and the quality of team I get when I drop in a light.
you two sound like Mud when talking about solo players. They aren't mindless drooling nose pickers who can't play. There's a HUGE difference in the type of solo team you get in the lower and lwer-mid range Elo brackets than what you get at the higher to mid-higher Elo brackets.
I know my light Elo is much MUCH lower than my Assault Elo. There is a HUGE difference in the quality of team I get when I drop in an assault and the quality of team I get when I drop in a light.
But that's kind of immaterial to the advantage gained by having folks grouped together... especially in a sync drop situation in the solo queue, where the other team is usually gonna have no groups at all.
Nick Makiaveli, on 27 August 2014 - 08:04 PM, said:
If it's a small number of cases, why should they even bother and why should you guys be all in a dither about it?
Because the cases in which it happens, it negatively impacts the games.. and folks really shouldn't be able to gain an advantage, even if MOST people don't exploit the game like that.
And it's trivial to prevent.
#574
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:05 PM
Sandpit, on 27 August 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:
One thing I just want to inject
you two sound like Mud when talking about solo players. They aren't mindless drooling nose pickers who can't play. There's a HUGE difference in the type of solo team you get in the lower and lwer-mid range Elo brackets than what you get at the higher to mid-higher Elo brackets.
I know my light Elo is much MUCH lower than my Assault Elo. There is a HUGE difference in the quality of team I get when I drop in an assault and the quality of team I get when I drop in a light.
you two sound like Mud when talking about solo players. They aren't mindless drooling nose pickers who can't play. There's a HUGE difference in the type of solo team you get in the lower and lwer-mid range Elo brackets than what you get at the higher to mid-higher Elo brackets.
I know my light Elo is much MUCH lower than my Assault Elo. There is a HUGE difference in the quality of team I get when I drop in an assault and the quality of team I get when I drop in a light.
Agreed. I can drop in my lazor vomit Timber and I know im going to have a tough fight. Voip though is a huge advantage Sandpit and the main reason the ques were split.
#575
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:05 PM
beerandasmoke, on 27 August 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:
Im glad to join the ranks of the total worthlessness. Hopefully now i wont have too get up to go to work tommorow. Anyways, not really holding it against the seraphrim, They just need to change up how they do business. One individual does not make a clan.
Wow....just wow.
They need to change yet one individual doesn't make a clan.
Brilliant, just ******* brilliant.
#576
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:09 PM
Sandpit, on 27 August 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:
One thing I just want to inject
you two sound like Mud when talking about solo players. They aren't mindless drooling nose pickers who can't play. There's a HUGE difference in the type of solo team you get in the lower and lwer-mid range Elo brackets than what you get at the higher to mid-higher Elo brackets.
I know my light Elo is much MUCH lower than my Assault Elo. There is a HUGE difference in the quality of team I get when I drop in an assault and the quality of team I get when I drop in a light.
you two sound like Mud when talking about solo players. They aren't mindless drooling nose pickers who can't play. There's a HUGE difference in the type of solo team you get in the lower and lwer-mid range Elo brackets than what you get at the higher to mid-higher Elo brackets.
I know my light Elo is much MUCH lower than my Assault Elo. There is a HUGE difference in the quality of team I get when I drop in an assault and the quality of team I get when I drop in a light.
Never said it was - my question though was, again, why? If you can drop in gropus in the group queue you can set up who's on which team. Also, plenty of people have premium time right now. Why not premium private matches?
The only reason to play in the solo queue is to play your group against pugs. That's it. That's the only thing it offers.
#577
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:09 PM
Nick Makiaveli, on 27 August 2014 - 08:04 PM, said:
If it's a small number of cases, why should they even bother and why should you guys be all in a dither about it?
Perhaps it's the no rewards bit?
Oh and way to toss in the insult there.
If it's exploitable, wouldn't it be obvious by now? Pretty sure they realize it's the same crowd whining over it and just don't buy your doom and gloom.
Kind of like LRMs, they are only OP in the Solo queue where you can always find people who stand in the open and run away from LRMs. Which is why they aren't nerfed any more than they are.
LRMs are easily avoidable. A group of 4 on VOIP turning a corner and immediately calling you out for focus fire is a whole different ballgame. That cant happen due to lack of communication in a normal solopug game.
#578
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:11 PM
Nick Makiaveli, on 27 August 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:
Wow....just wow.
They need to change yet one individual doesn't make a clan.
Brilliant, just ******* brilliant.
Yes they need to stop syncdropping and work on group tactics in the group que. There was no insult intended there towards them.
#579
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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:12 PM
Well, time to unfollow this now abject worthless thread as it careens towards Ktown.
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