946 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

xeromynd, on 25 August 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

This made my day.

[beerandasmoke]

Kjudoon, on 25 August 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

Your opinion "isn't what it is". You didn't read enough to get the context and aren't invested enough in the conversation to know what's been said, so your input isn't really what you'd call informed, authoritative or helpful.

The assumption is being made time and time again that ALL Sync drops are being done to ruin solo player's good time by group players who can't hack it in the group queue... aka bad players abusing the system.

This assumption is a mendacious lie started by insecure players to make themselves feel better and falsely manufacture a moral highground out of whole cloth who know nothing on what a sync drop is and is about, why it happens, and what goes on during one. This need to live in such a manufactured intellectual fantasy is so strong I've had to chuck a few people onto the ignore pyre because their posts have become nonsensical and as solidly walled off to open discourse as preaching radical veganism at a meatpacker's convention.

I have spoken about the intent of a sync drop and the various kinds that have existed and do exist. I doubt very heavily that critics of sync drops have ever been in the group queue with more than a friend or two and have been either lucky enough to ride the coattails of a very good team or are so used to dying quickly that they don't know what it's like to work with a team.

Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong but this is the image they are projecting and I've seen little evidence to disprove it.

So you want to paint all sync drops as morally wrong, evil and cheating, fine. That's a delusion that has no basis in reality because I have done sync drops with multiple units and none... NONE of them are doing them for any of the reasons or intents you have accused them of. That is how I know the position is full of so much fertilizer it squeaks going into the turn.

You have obviously not.

So let's put the high horses back in the barn. You're done riding them for a while. Go walk in the other fellow's shoes and do some sync drops to see how much evil cheating goes on in them if you can find a unit who will allow you to drop with them. At least then you'd be speaking about what you know, rather than what you think you know.

Lol on the one hand your saying you just want to have fun and on the other you state "I want back what PGI took from us." Yeah, the ability too stomp solopug players with a premade. Then you state you cant play in the group que because somehow you always get a 12 man competitive team on the other side. Then you state your syncdropping 40 people at once in the soloque. Uh, thats 3 12man groups you could run in the group que. Instead of exploiting why dont you just run a 12man???

Mischief is correct when he pointed out that if they gave you your own 4man que the competitive players would just follow. Your just going to have to deal with fighting the competitive players from time to time. We all do no matter what que we run in whether it be solo or group.

I can give you an example where sync dropping was used for malicious purposes and could be in this game. About a year ago in World of Tanks they ran a competition for a super rare tank that was no longer sold. What happened was a certain clan waited till the server population was real low late at night and began sync dropping over and over. Eventually they caught a game where they were all in one game and the clanleader simply drove over too the otherside and killed all 15 of his clanmates on the opposing team without a fight. He won the competition and it took a whistleblower 6 months later to expose his cheating and get the prize revoked. Im not saying you or your clan would do it but if PGI were to give away something like a gold timberwolf as a top prize in a competition someone would definetly try it and most likely succeed without certain precautions to stop something like that.

I personally dont think sync dropping is a large problem in this game but there is a reason why you and others are doing it and its not to have fun. Your trying to gain an unfair advantage and it doesnt matter how much smoke and mirrors you put up theres no denying that.

Edited by beerandasmoke, 25 August 2014 - 04:52 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

Yeah, the ability too stomp solopug players with a premade.

False Characterization once again. When you had small groups it was fairly balanced, even when you had multiple groups on both sides. The imbalance in elo was much smaller and it often caused the 'gambler's ruin' phenomenon where someone hanging out with good players got an inflated elo which when the group changed, they crashed and burned back to where they should be. It's called Oscillation, and you cannot escape it.

Also, playing the victim won't fix things. Step up.

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Uh, thats 3 12man groups you could run in the group que.

Yeah, that's 40 people who may or may not be part of a company, don't like the competitive play style and just want to be with friends in a party atmosphere. So what? Again, the intent is to enjoy the game, and they're not ruining yours. If 40 people who knew each other accidentally synced up (BTW, with elo variations online player population et all... generally that results in 2-4 people in a match together split against each other.

You assume that all "3 twelvemans" get togetherr on the same maps and matches and slaughter another team. This is a falsehood bred by ignorance.

Quote

Mischief is correct when he pointed out that if they gave you your own 4man que the competitive players would just follow.

yes, and their much higher elo could not be hidden and they'd be kept out of matches they shouldn't be in in the first place because the group size is smaller and therefore more manageable and less oppressive. Sorry, but that's the math of it.

Also if you make it 'opt in' for solo players, they can hide in their precious solo queue and leave this gameplay to others who want it. Of course, that makes the assumption you'd even want to allow people to play the way they want. Good example. The skirmish queue. I hate it like the plague, so I stay out of it. But it solved the problem of flamers going off on 'cap wins'. Go play skirmish then, and we'll enjoy our gameplay. Problem solved. This is the same situation. The queues needed improvement by creating a solo only queue and a large group queue. The mistake was in removing the '1-4 man' queue in the process. Unfortunately, this is being forced because the player population for this game is too small.

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I can give you an example where sync dropping was used for malicious purposes and could be in this game

Yes, but making the assumption that all sync drops are for malicious reasons is dishonest and intellectually barren. Stop it. You should be better than that.

Quote

I personally dont think sync dropping is a large problem in this game

/thread.

Right there. You're right. It's not a problem in the game at the moment, and will be less of a problem once CW shows up AND the player population grows. Larger the population, less likely Syncs will happen, less reason to do it. Problem disappears. Of course, if you do not give a third queue... you're going to continue to have problems with player satisfaction and retention stymieing player growth.

Quote

there is a reason why you and others are doing it and its not to have fun.

One, that is a lie. You obviously are projecting evil intent on people when you have no proof of what they're doing. Two, even when people tell you they're not doing it to be malicious, you disbelieve it. Three, I don't think you have any intent of accepting any proof that contradicts your affected superiority complex.

This Orwellian double think stuff is really irritating. "Sync droppers are bad players who are maliciously cheating to ruin my good time." Really? Bad players are making it hard for you to win... because they're dropping together and being bad?

A little intellectual honesty will be appreciated. As for a little deeper thought into the matter and whining... I direct you here:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3668771

Edited by Kjudoon, 25 August 2014 - 05:08 PM.

[Roland]

Every time you make one of those posts trying to justify why you like sync dropping, you make yourself look worse dude.

[TKSax]

Kjudoon,
IMHO the way the ques are setup now, there is no good reason to sync drop before when the groups were 2-4 and 12, there was a decent argument for. It is a pretty shady practice to try and do it to get on the same team. I did not like in much in the 8v8 days even though a lot of times were were trying to get on oppsite teams with smaller groups because there were no private matches. I understood in the 12 v 12 setup, as there was no way to drop with more that 4 until you got 12 and keeping 12 togther was a nightmare as a pick up.

IMHO intellectual honesty goes both ways, It seems you are sync dropping because you are not winning in the group que and that is not fun, this game is tough on smaller groups, but it is doable, yea my win/loss ration goes up the more people I have on my team all though some times depending who I am playing with and how the matchmaker is treating us a 2 man group can be fun.

Man up and drop with the groups.

Edited by TKSax, 25 August 2014 - 05:20 PM.

[beerandasmoke]

Roland, on 25 August 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

Every time you make one of those posts trying to justify why you like sync dropping, you make yourself look worse dude.

Its bad isnt it? He wants to play with and against friends and PGI has provided him with group and private matches. Instead he insists on trying to sneak a group into the soloque and tries to justify it. Its getting too the point that its kind of sad. Honestly, I dont really care at this point and Im over argueing with him but syncdropping can be used for malicious purposes such as the example I gave which does concern me.

[Kjudoon]

TKSax, on 25 August 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Kjudoon,
IMHO the way the ques are setup now, there is no good reason to sync drop before when the groups were 2-4 and 12, there was a decent argument for. It is a pretty shady practice to try and do it to get on the same team. I did not like in much in the 8v8 days even though a lot of times were were trying to get on oppsite teams with smaller groups because there were no private matches. I understood in the 12 v 12 setup, as there was no way to drop with more that 4 until you got 12 and keeping 12 togther was a nightmare as a pick up.

IMHO intellectual honesty goes both ways, It seems you are sync dropping because you are not winning in the group que and that is not fun, this game is tough on smaller groups, but it is doable, yea my win/loss ration goes up the more people I have on my team all though some times depending who I am playing with and how the matchmaker is treating us a 2 man group can be fun.

Man up and drop with the groups.

Define "Reason", please.

This is the same as saying there is no "need". Well there's also no "Need" to drop solo either. So this argument is completely invalid. Let's just go back to the free-for-all we had. Sync dropping is enjoyable and interesting way to play and there is no reason the practice should stop. Furthermore, there is no way TO stop it without going to insane, unprofitable draconian measures to make an incredibly small minority of players happy and large swaths of players unhappy with the level of monitoring required to stop it. Give me a reason to stop sync dropping, by allowing me to play with friends in a non-competitive environment... aka the large group queue... and I'll be there happy as a clam. Next, stop making all challenges solo only challenges and many be it will drop the need even more.

The need argument is dead. No validity, moving on.

[Kjudoon]

beerandasmoke, on 25 August 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

Its bad isnt it? He wants to play with and against friends and PGI has provided him with group and private matches. Instead he insists on trying to sneak a group into the soloque and tries to justify it. Its getting too the point that its kind of sad. Honestly, I dont really care at this point and Im over argueing with him but syncdropping can be used for malicious purposes such as the example I gave which does concern me.

Private matches offer no C-Bills or XP and cost you real money. Why do I have to Pay to Play in a free game? Again. Invalid argument.
The group queue is screwed up because of elo mismatches 450% higher than the group queue. Why should I be forced to play only there? My style of play was removed from the game. Make PGI fix this then.

Also, what does "Solo" mean to you? really? Can a person accidentally drop in a match with someone they know? Or should that be banned too? Nobody complaining about sync drops has answered that issue at all, let alone satisfactorily.

What do you think the solo queue is supposed to be? No teamspeak ever? I guess we should never implement VOIP then... that'd be like the evil premades. I guess we should make sure unit members can't drop together outside of the group queue. I'm sure that'll go over well and practical for CW when the factions face off. Or is the solo queue the sandbox/no CW queue?

Think about what you're demanding and what you envision. I doubt the reality is anything close to the actuality.

[Roland]

Kjudoon, on 25 August 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

Define "Reason", please.

This is the same as saying there is no "need". Well there's also no "Need" to drop solo either. So this argument is completely invalid.

Uh.. there actually is in fact a need to drop solo, for folks who are playing when they don't have any friends online at the time.

Quote

Let's just go back to the free-for-all we had. Sync dropping is enjoyable and interesting way to play and there is no reason the practice should stop.

It's enjoyable to you, because your unit, the Seraphim, apparently like to stomp on ungrouped pugs, and you aren't capable of playing in the group queue.. to the extent that you consider the group queue to be "too competitive". (which really is laughable).

Seriously dude, you need to step back, take a deep breath, and think about how you are making your unit look at this point. You are making them look BAD. Like, really, really, really bad.

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Furthermore, there is no way TO stop it without going to insane, unprofitable draconian measures to make an incredibly small minority of players happy and large swaths of players unhappy with the level of monitoring required to stop it.

Actually, Mischief presented a pretty easy mechanism to prevent it... Also, we're going to make fun of you in the solo queue when we see you sync dropping.

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Give me a reason to stop sync dropping, by allowing me to play with friends in a non-competitive environment... aka the large group queue... and I'll be there happy as a clam.

You can just play in the group queue. The vast majority of players in the group queue are in small groups, playing for fun.
Not sure why we have to keep repeating this to you.

Seriously though man, you are really making yourself and your unit look terrible at this point, in your desperate attempt to rationalize sync dropping.

[Kjudoon]

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3668846

Get ready to lose your minds if this happens solo-purists.

[Roland]

Kjudoon, on 25 August 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3668846

Get ready to lose your minds if this happens solo-purists.

As many have said, lots of solo players actually have no problem dropping in the group queue, and many of us would prefer having that option.

[beerandasmoke]

Roland, on 25 August 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

As many have said, lots of solo players actually have no problem dropping in the group queue, and many of us would prefer having that option.

What Roland said. It would probably be the groups complaining about solos being on their team then the other way around. I mean i wouldnt want to be fighting for a planet and some pug show up in a trial Atlas lol. It seems your trying to switch topics and distract.

Edited by beerandasmoke, 25 August 2014 - 06:12 PM.

[TKSax]

Kjudoon, on 25 August 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

Give me a reason to stop sync dropping, by allowing me to play with friends in a non-competitive environment... aka the large group queue...

The need argument is dead. No validity, moving on.

Hmm hate to tell you this, if there is a winner and a loser it is a competitive environment period, the only place to plan no-competitively is to drop in private matches. By saying you want to drop in a non competitive environment you are saying you want to drop in an environment that is easier for you to get wins in. Kjudoon I have dropped with you and I enjoy playing with you, but sync droppers in the current setup are the lowest of the low , and it does lower my opinion of you. If you can;t have fun in the group que playing with other people you are doing it wrong, I have played many a times on the house-marik.net server and went through nights were we just got stomped, but we were laughing (at ourselves sometimes) and joking around have having a great time, and did not win a single game...

I will say I agree that PGI does not need to do anything to stop this practice, because I do think it is in the minority and it is not worth their development time to do anything about it.

[RussianWolf]

Simple point.

PGI made 2 queues, Solo and Group
You and yours have decided to Sync drop in order to get groups into the solo queue

You are breaking the spirit of the current rules.

That makes you bad.

You are gaming the system for your benefit. Doesn't matter if you get 12 of your mates on the same team or 2, its an advantage over the solo players who are not on voice comms.

"I can't have fun unless I'm on comms with my friends AND we all press launch at the same time."

Why can't you be on comms and hit launch whenever and play in seperate matches and have just as much fun?????

The idea of the solo only queue was to level the playing field by removing teams on voice comms. Specifically. When and if they ever add voice comms in game (I have my doubts), then maybe that can change, but not until then.

Until then, you and yours are just proving to be douches.

[Kjudoon]

TKSax, on 25 August 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

Hmm hate to tell you this, if there is a winner and a loser it is a competitive environment period, the only place to plan no-competitively is to drop in private matches. By saying you want to drop in a non competitive environment you are saying you want to drop in an environment that is easier for you to get wins in. Kjudoon I have dropped with you and I enjoy playing with you, but sync droppers in the current setup are the lowest of the low , and it does lower my opinion of you. If you can;t have fun in the group que playing with other people you are doing it wrong, I have played many a times on the house-marik.net server and went through nights were we just got stomped, but we were laughing (at ourselves sometimes) and joking around have having a great time, and did not win a single game...

I will say I agree that PGI does not need to do anything to stop this practice, because I do think it is in the minority and it is not worth their development time to do anything about it.

Yes, I enjoy participating in Monday Marik Madness from time to time. I might drop by tonight too. That said... It is the same mentality that I have, they're out to have fun. I have yet to meet someone that doesn't have a similar attitude regarding sync drops.

I enjoy the group queue less because of the frequency and severity of the roflstomps caused by elo averaging. It was never this bad in the 1-4man queue we used to have. Like I've said in the past, Roadbeer is out there laughing the laugh of the damned after being a major driving force for the 5+ option and the absolute disaster it's become.

Quote

That makes you bad.

You are gaming the system for your benefit

You assert I have a benefit outside of making an enjoyable experience for myself. Prove that I have created some nefarious advantage. I assert you can't because there isn't one.

Again... Should accidental sync drops with people you know and can play with be banned from the solo queue? Currently only crickets are voting.

Are we going to start monitoring friends lists to prevent them from gettiing into the same match on the off chance they could be on the same team? Really?

Edited by Kjudoon, 25 August 2014 - 06:22 PM.

[TKSax]

Kjudoon, on 25 August 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Yes, I enjoy participating in Monday Marik Madness from time to time. I might drop by tonight too. That said... It is the same mentality that I have, they're out to have fun. I have yet to meet someone that doesn't have a similar attitude regarding sync drops.

I have never dropped with you in Marik Monday Madness, you dropped with me in a 4 man with Roadbeer. Marik Monday Madness is a she;l of what it was and should be shut down. It was different when you had 100+ people on the NGNG server all dropping at the same time. Now they are essitally gaming the system also. If you have only met people with the same attitude that makes me sad, and in fact maybe I should bring that up at the next UCC meeting that sync dropping out side of MMM should be discouraged as it looks bad.

Kjudoon, on 25 August 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

I enjoy the group queue less because of the frequency and severity of the roflstomps caused by elo averaging. It was never this bad in the 1-4man queue we used to have. Like I've said in the past, Roadbeer is out there laughing the laugh of the damned after being a major driving force for the 5+ option and the absolute disaster it's become.

Actually he is not I have talked with him, he is fine with because as he said MWO should not be easy environment where you can win every game.

Kjudoon, on 25 August 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

You assert I have a benefit outside of making an enjoyable experience for myself. Prove that I have created some nefarious advantage. I assert you can't because there isn't one.

You said it above...
I enjoy the group queue less because of the frequency and severity of the roflstomps caused by elo averaging. It was never this bad in the 1-4man queue we used to have

aka I don't win as much as I used to...

Kjudoon, on 25 August 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Again... Should accidental sync drops with people you know and can play with be banned from the solo queue? Currently only crickets are voting.

Are we going to start monitoring friends lists to prevent them from getting into the same match on the off chance they could be on the same team? Really?

No a single person in this thread is talking about accidental sync drops, as you said before
"The accidental sync drop argument is dead. No validity, moving on"

[Sandpit]

RussianWolf, on 25 August 2014 - 06:18 PM, said:

You are breaking the spirit of the current rules.

possibly, but it's still not illegal or cheating. PGI has had every opportunity to chime in on this topic. Let's see what they've said about
....





...
Hmmm....
Yea sounds about right. Maybe we should check reddit
or facebook
or twitter
or the NGNG site
or every other outlet besides the official forums since they refuse to post important info here

[QuackAttack]

Just a warning for you guys, I'ts Monday night and a bunch of Mariks are sync dropping. But we only play conquest mode so stay out of that and your safe

[RussianWolf]

Kjudoon, on 25 August 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Yes, I enjoy participating in Monday Marik Madness from time to time. I might drop by tonight too. That said... It is the same mentality that I have, they're out to have fun. I have yet to meet someone that doesn't have a similar attitude regarding sync drops.

I enjoy the group queue less because of the frequency and severity of the roflstomps caused by elo averaging. It was never this bad in the 1-4man queue we used to have. Like I've said in the past, Roadbeer is out there laughing the laugh of the damned after being a major driving force for the 5+ option and the absolute disaster it's become.



You assert I have a benefit outside of making an enjoyable experience for myself. Prove that I have created some nefarious advantage. I assert you can't because there isn't one.

Again... Should accidental sync drops with people you know and can play with be banned from the solo queue? Currently only crickets are voting.

Are we going to start monitoring friends lists to prevent them from gettiing into the same match on the off chance they could be on the same team? Really?

Well, above you are complaining repeatedly about the competitive environment in the group queue which you "don't enjoy"

I can only interpret that as meaning that you and your friends are repeatedly getting stomped. So instead you sync drop into the solo queue where your chances of getting stomped are lessened.

I ,like others, find the statements about how competitive the group queue is laughable. As I mentioned I drop fairly regularly with some groups. Everything from 3 all the way up to 12. Yes, we occasionally get stomped, but by far most of the matches I've had there have been well fought.

As far as seeing the occasional people that you know in game, I'm sure they could set up a system that monitors launch cycles of people it sees repeatedly and stager them if it sees a pattern form. I've seen Mischief in game (with and against) a few times lately, but if the MM would like to make that less frequebntly I wouldn't have an issue as we aren't trying to game the system. The only people who would care, would be those that are actively trying to do so.

[beerandasmoke]

Its amazing that you believe having voicecoms in the soloque is not an advantage. I mean anyone who has played this game for any length of time knows it is. Your getting mad because you cant BS us man. We know what your doing and why your doing it. You said so yourself. You cant hack it in the group que. You want the good ole days of yore back where you took your premade up against LNWs and stomped tail. Your trying to get that massive advantage back by syncdropping. Sorry man but those days are gone and the quicker you realize that the better off you and your clan will be.