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Saying You Have A Bad Team Doesn't Mean Everyone But You Sucks


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#21 Odins Fist

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 09:54 AM

View Postwanderer, on 24 August 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

There was nothing "good" about (a person's) 2-12 loss, no matter what (a person's) personal stats were.

There is nothing good about saying "GG" about it, nor making excuses about it.
If (a person) was good, (a person) would have kept the team alive to kill more.

You think you can't carry harder? There's people out there with 12-kill games.


Yeah, because you can always get random Solo players to listen, be on the same side of the map, or AIM, no matter how much you tell them about enemy position etc, etc, etc..
Then there is the guy that types in "YOLO" runs off in a light with only Flamers, or a whole lance that goes Rambo spawned on the other side from you, dead before you can help them.

Not all loses are due to bad teams, not all loses can be prevented by (1) pilot.
Sorry math doesn't add up, too many factors to say (1) guy can win a whole match regardless of 12 kills for one person. No such thing as a 1 man army in MWO, never happened... Not once. (Always had help)

In a team HOPEFULLY everyone can pull their own weight, or not get caught in a bad situation, but that isn't always the case.

GGYFSB?

Edited by Odins Fist, 24 August 2014 - 09:59 AM.


#22 wanderer

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:03 AM

View PostKamikazeRat, on 24 August 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

The only way to make this comment and not look like a total douchebag for it, is to include yourself in the complaint.

"we sucked" versus "this team sucks"
makes a world of difference, the response to #1 is often, "yep, lol" the response to #2 is often "STFU, GTFO"


That's how I generally do it.

"Good stomp, we sucked."

It's amazing how many people miss the "we" or start making excuses as the "Defeat" screen comes up on a 12-1 and there's 10 guys with 0 kills, 0 assists.

We lost, we sucked. We were bad. Not "You were good, but...". You lost. Hard. You were bad. Your efforts meant nothing as they did not contribute to the survival and victory, nor even the potential for a competent showing of an attempt for the team to have caused the other side significant harm. And so was everyone else on the team. The only thing having the best effort on said team should do is being the first one to say "We sucked".

View PostKubernetes, on 24 August 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Yeah, saying that the team sucks is pointless and just antagonizes people.


Always include yourself in that statement and you've instead made the proper point. And if they don't get mad, they're apathetic and you can guarantee the next time you're in a match with them, a repeat performance in the gutter will occur.

You lost big? Hate it. Express that hate and improve or accept that you're bad, don't want to improve, and meekly bend over and take that boot to the rump like a good whipped dog until you snap and quit. Welcome to PvP gaming, where you can't go raiding to make yourself feel better when someone else comes around and stomps your side a new pie-hole.

#23 Scratx

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:10 AM

Well, even pro teams have really bad days.

I mean... not to single out anyone in specific or shame them, but.... germany vs brazil in the world cup just stands out as a prime example as to how a bunch of good players just fell apart as a team.

It happens.

Now imagine how much worse the phenomenom is when the team's players don't train together beforehand... oh, wait. We don't have to. We see that every match.

#24 wanderer

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:16 AM

View PostKubernetes, on 24 August 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:

Oh good grief, do you think anyone finishes with 80 damage in a 0-12 stomp and thinks "That was brilliant! I want to do that again!" If you have actual advice (i.e. 'Counter ECM' or 'ignore the disarmed Stalker'), fine, but what does "This Team Sucks!" accomplish? Nothing. It's just an outlet for the whiner to absolve himself.


Considering I see those 80-damage types putting comments into team chat about "Hey, we did good" or "GG, guys", and the occasional "You had an excellent try" as the team does go 0-12? Yes, apparently they do.

There are plenty of people that brain-dead in MWO, and they're on your team. And believe me, I cheerfully add in specific commentary as I spectate to the end. The "GG" types generally don't say a useful word as we watch the last two guys randomly cycle their guns into different targets in a flailing panic whilst being dismembered, for example. Or watch as the guy smoking in the red CT is repeatedly shot in the legs instead as he's whittled to death by a light. Or perhaps not saying a word as the guy with nothing but IS LRMs is taken apart by the guy with nothing but machine guns left and a mass of ruined internals, because actually saying something is that kind of derp would be politically incorrect even if one medium laser would have saved two minutes of humiliating gameplay that should never have been possible in the first place if LRM Guy had connected two neurons together.

I had someone with a Battlemaster a few weeks back.

It had an LRM 5 and two SRM 2's. With Artemis. Because reasons. One LRM 5. Two SRM 2's. 85 ton 'Mech.

People actually defended this as a good effort. Because he got assists on every kill the team got. All 3 of them. Great team player.

I am happy I keep Excedrin near the computer and have a sturdy desk for those moments.

#25 Xarian

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:16 AM

View Postwanderer, on 24 August 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

That's how I generally do it.

"Good stomp, we sucked."

It's amazing how many people miss the "we" or start making excuses as the "Defeat" screen comes up on a 12-1 and there's 10 guys with 0 kills, 0 assists.

We lost, we sucked. We were bad. Not "You were good, but...". You lost. Hard. You were bad. Your efforts meant nothing as they did not contribute to the survival and victory, nor even the potential for a competent showing of an attempt for the team to have caused the other side significant harm. And so was everyone else on the team. The only thing having the best effort on said team should do is being the first one to say "We sucked".



Always include yourself in that statement and you've instead made the proper point. And if they don't get mad, they're apathetic and you can guarantee the next time you're in a match with them, a repeat performance in the gutter will occur.

You lost big? Hate it. Express that hate and improve or accept that you're bad, don't want to improve, and meekly bend over and take that boot to the rump like a good whipped dog until you snap and quit. Welcome to PvP gaming, where you can't go raiding to make yourself feel better when someone else comes around and stomps your side a new pie-hole.

People like you ruin every team game in existence. Do us all a favor and go take up pottery or something.

#26 Felicitatem Parco

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:17 AM

Yeah, I didn't really like it when, last night, a "prominent" player stated that we (he and I) were on a Moron Team.
We lost a match 6-12 in Tourmaline, and as our last player fought to death, this Self-HIghly-Regarded player repeatedly lambasted us for being total morons (he liked that word). We were all morons, the team was a moron team, consisting of distilled moronness, apparently.

It would be better of people didn't always attribute 100% of the loss strictly to the other 93% of the team. Especially when some of them out-perform you (like how I, one of the morons, had a match-score of 102 with 950 damage using no AC, PPCs, Lagshield, ECM, ClanToys, or LRMs...;-)

Edited by Prosperity Park, 24 August 2014 - 10:19 AM.


#27 wanderer

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:19 AM

View PostScratx, on 24 August 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

Well, even pro teams have really bad days.

I mean... not to single out anyone in specific or shame them, but.... germany vs brazil in the world cup just stands out as a prime example as to how a bunch of good players just fell apart as a team.

It happens.

Now imagine how much worse the phenomenom is when the team's players don't train together beforehand... oh, wait. We don't have to. We see that every match.


Note that the entire coaching staff resigned for Brazil in shame. All of them. Collective failure, felt collectively.

#28 wanderer

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:26 AM

View PostXarian, on 24 August 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

People like you ruin every team game in existence. Do us all a favor and go take up pottery or something.


If we're in every team game around and telling your bad team it was bad, perhaps you should take it to heart and improve. Note: The guy who loses and doesn't include himself in that is actually worse- but believe me- it's a "we" here. My disgust with a stomp included "how could I have made that better", 99% of the time.

Generally that 1% is when half the team gets disconnected/lagspiked out of the match by the server, in which case it's "ggclose, PGI".

Does it bother you when someone actually says "losing is bad, you should feel bad?" Perhaps if I put it in the form of a picture?

Posted Image

#29 EvilCow

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:35 AM

I think many are missing the point, complaining will do nothing to improve the situation, it already happened, you should just give a "well done red team" and show some sportsmanship.

Complaining because there are new/poor players in your team makes YOU look bad, not them. Other players can see if there are under performers by themselves, you are just adding one more bit of information and it is about you.

**** happens, deal with it.

#30 A banana in the tailpipe

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:36 AM

There's so many angry players this weekend it makes the stale lopsided matches much more entertaining. :D

#31 FDJustin

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:40 AM

View Postwanderer, on 24 August 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:


Considering I see those 80-damage types putting comments into team chat about "Hey, we did good" or "GG, guys", and the occasional "You had an excellent try" as the team does go 0-12? Yes, apparently they do.

There are plenty of people that brain-dead in MWO, and they're on your team. And believe me, I cheerfully add in specific commentary as I spectate to the end. The "GG" types generally don't say a useful word as we watch the last two guys randomly cycle their guns into different targets in a flailing panic whilst being dismembered, for example. Or watch as the guy smoking in the red CT is repeatedly shot in the legs instead as he's whittled to death by a light. Or perhaps not saying a word as the guy with nothing but IS LRMs is taken apart by the guy with nothing but machine guns left and a mass of ruined internals, because actually saying something is that kind of derp would be politically incorrect even if one medium laser would have saved two minutes of humiliating gameplay that should never have been possible in the first place if LRM Guy had connected two neurons together.

I had someone with a Battlemaster a few weeks back.

It had an LRM 5 and two SRM 2's. With Artemis. Because reasons. One LRM 5. Two SRM 2's. 85 ton 'Mech.

People actually defended this as a good effort. Because he got assists on every kill the team got. All 3 of them. Great team player.

I am happy I keep Excedrin near the computer and have a sturdy desk for those moments.

GG is more a thing of politeness than an actual expression to match the letters these days.

That said... It's fine to see people performing poorly and have something constructive to say to them. Just try and keep it terse, and without hostility. Maybe they'll appreciate it. Maybe they won't.

At the end of the day, you should really just be focusing on your own performance and not be getting mad at various internet strangers for not holding up to your standards. Sorry, but that is, to it's core, toxic. To yourself, and if you express it, to others.

#32 Utilyan

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:41 AM

View PostViktor Drake, on 24 August 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

I just had it happen last match were I commented on my frustration that I had three bad teams in a row. Of course the comeback was something along the line of "Oh so its all the teams fault right?" with the implication that I was claiming everyone else sucked but I was great.

The thing is, saying that your team sucks doesn't mean that the players on your team suck, it just means that your "Team" as in everyone actually coming together to win a match, sucked in that regard.

You can have the absolute best individual players imaginable, and if they all decide to go do their own thing running all over the map, ignoring everything but their own agendas then your team is going to suck and fail.

So try not to take things so personal when someone coments that the team sucks because obviously it did suck or you wouldn't have lost 0-12.



Tryhardicus-whinerus The guy that says "idiot team" , "this team sucks". I think would pay MC for the option of keeping those folks on their own separate queue. The most toxic ******** mf'ers ever.



If your whole team was made up of people exactly like you, you'd shoot yourself. I guarantee it.

Edited by Utilyan, 24 August 2014 - 10:43 AM.


#33 wanderer

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:51 AM

View PostFDJustin, on 24 August 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

At the end of the day, you should really just be focusing on your own performance and not be getting mad at various internet strangers for not holding up to your standards. Sorry, but that is, to it's core, toxic. To yourself, and if you express it, to others.


Chlorine is toxic. We use it to keep the pool clean.

The game needs more chlorine and less sweet food for the mold to grow on.
Amusing note: For those who haven't figured it out by now- when many teams tell you "GG" after a game where your team stank, it also makes a "polite", backhanded note to "Get Good".

Trust me. I've been on the team chats where the winners are laughing their assets off in TS or team chat at the losers with every "GG". Don't tell the other team "GG". If you really want to pat them on the back, come up with something original that actually expresses your feelings in a method that cannot be so easily subverted to mocking them.

(Also, see "ggclose" and other snarkery. I believe that a losing team should slap itself in the face as a matter of course, it's not the winner's job or place to do so- or to praise their poor performance as good, unless you like having easy target practice for next time.)

#34 Mad Strike

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 11:02 AM

View Postwanderer, on 24 August 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:


Chlorine is toxic. We use it to keep the pool clean.

The game needs more chlorine and less sweet food for the mold to grow on.
Amusing note: For those who haven't figured it out by now- when many teams tell you "GG" after a game where your team stank, it also makes a "polite", backhanded note to "Get Good".

Trust me. I've been on the team chats where the winners are laughing their assets off in TS or team chat at the losers with every "GG". Don't tell the other team "GG". If you really want to pat them on the back, come up with something original that actually expresses your feelings in a method that cannot be so easily subverted to mocking them.

(Also, see "ggclose" and other snarkery. I believe that a losing team should slap itself in the face as a matter of course, it's not the winner's job or place to do so- or to praise their poor performance as good, unless you like having easy target practice for next time.)

I stoped the "gg" crap like one month ago...it´s boring and anoying for solo drops. Of course i have my rage burst but thats been solved by something my Merc Unit told me yesterday....50%+ players on this game have no !"#$ idea of what NARC is T_T.

Now i replaced "gg" with "Join Carrion Crows --- Join the murder" for recruitment.

Edited by strikebrch, 24 August 2014 - 11:04 AM.


#35 FDJustin

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 11:06 AM

Doesn't matter how you intend GG, it's how people receive it. ggclose on a stomp is obvious snarkery. GG just comes across as a dry, tired, and mostly meaningless pleasantry. If you actually mean it as "get good", well... Good on you. If it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, keep doing it. Doesn't hurt anyone else.

As for more chlorine... Sure. Why not actively shrink the playerbase. I'm sure there couldn't possibly be any negative repercussions of doing that in a game that obvious has only a few thousand players to begin with.

#36 Aresye

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 11:09 AM

There's a big thing that most players lack: Situational Awareness

SA isn't just being aware of what's around you. It's being able to simultaneously look at where your team is, where the enemy team is, the current score, the time on the clock, the movement/flow of the game, and the common strategies used for a variety of maps and game modes. In a way, it's kind of like a sixth sense. A gut feeling of how the game's going, and what you need to do to achieve victory or at least avoid a complete stomp.

I typically run as the drop commander when I play in a group because I'm familiar with the common strategies for each map. I know a lot of unorthodox strategies as well that work in specific circumstances. Overall though, I'm able to maintain good SA of what the enemy team is doing, which allows me to stay a step ahead of them.

Example 1 (Wanderer can back me up on this one):
- Map is River City Assault. Our team spawned on the side of the ship. We had 1 disconnect.
- Naturally, the team gravitated towards fighting behind the Citadel, which often isn't a good position. Sure enough, we get pinned down there, and we already lost 2 players who went far left towards the upper city side overlooking the dropship.
- At this moment the score is 0-2 (0-3 technically because of disconnect). We have 9 guys directly behind the citadel. The water to the right is clear, and on the enemy team's side, there's 4 mechs behind the citadel, and 1 mech near their base. The rest of their team was on the left side near the dropship area after our 2 doomed players tried to push left.
- If we pushed across water to the enemy team's base, we stood a good chance at being able to capture it, or force their team to come at us one at a time. So I called for everybody to start moving far right to go towards their base.
- Result: 1 single player pushed with me (I'm in a Kit Fox with ECM). Halfway across the water while we're taking fire from the few mechs that are behind the citadel we notice our team is still hiding behind their side of the building.
- Both of us turn around and again I state they need to come across water now while it's mostly clear. With that we begin moving again to the right. Once again we get halfway across the water and notice our team isn't following us.
- At this point as I'm running back for a third and final try to rally the team to push, a Jenner on top of the Citadel killed me with a well placed laser shot.
- The enemy team is still split. My team still has a chance to take their base with minimal effort, so I again state (while I'm dead) that they need to push NOW or else they're going to get picked off one by one where they are. Nobody moves.
- Nope, they elect to stay there. A couple minutes later another 2 friendlies die, and the enemy mechs that were near the shuttle have now come back to the citadel's left side. The enemy team pushes from both sides, catching our remaining mechs in the water behind the citadel from the right and left. 2 escaped towards upper city but were hunted down in short order.

Naturally, I was livid.

My plans aren't flawless. Sometimes the enemy does something unorthodox I wouldn't expect. Sometimes they push faster than I can react and the general plan turns into, "Shoot a lot and hope for the best." I make mistakes that will cause my team to lose because I, nor anybody else, can perfectly orchestrate a good plan 100% of the time.

I will say this though. No matter how low in skill the individual players on my team are, if they follow the plan, we often win. The times that hurt the most are when I have a team that follows my plans and we lose, because I know I likely contributed to that failure with a bad plan, or a plan that was countered. It doesn't happen often as most losses happen when my team pays absolutely no attention to the plan, but when it does, I apologize to my team, congratulate the other team for playing well, and I move on, hoping to learn from the game to better my future strategies.

Edited by Aresye, 24 August 2014 - 11:13 AM.


#37 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 11:15 AM

View PostFDJustin, on 24 August 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

Doesn't matter how you intend GG, it's how people receive it. ggclose on a stomp is obvious snarkery. GG just comes across as a dry, tired, and mostly meaningless pleasantry. If you actually mean it as "get good", well... Good on you. If it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, keep doing it. Doesn't hurt anyone else.




Gotta disagree with this.

I hold the door open for a lady, and she turns out to be some new age femiNazi who lambasts me for "patronizing her and trying to keep her repressed in the Stone Age" (true story that... gotta love the People's Republic of California).....

Is the problem me showing common courtesy, or her reading something else into it due to her personal bias.

I grew up playing sports. You shook hands with the other team and said GG, period. Because it was manners and sportsmanship. I say GG, in all but the worst stomps, because even if the other team stomped us, well, they played hard and deserve commendation. When I am on the winning team, unless the other team just folds and curls up in the fetal position, I "GG" because usually they at least tried. I have seen some teams pull some nice maneuvers, and still get stomped for various reasons. I commend them for their effort. But also, whenever possible, I try to explain what I thought was good, such as "GG, nice pincer maneuver. Really caught us off guard".

If people get their panties in a bunch over it, that is a them problem, and they can feel free to try to hunt me down next time we are in drop together.

#38 Ultimax

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 11:15 AM

View PostAresye, on 24 August 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

There's a big thing that most players lack: Situational Awareness

SA isn't just being aware of what's around you. It's being able to simultaneously look at where your team is, where the enemy team is, the current score, the time on the clock, the movement/flow of the game, and the common strategies used for a variety of maps and game modes. In a way, it's kind of like a sixth sense. A gut feeling of how the game's going, and what you need to do to achieve victory or at least avoid a complete stomp.

I typically run as the drop commander when I play in a group because I'm familiar with the common strategies for each map. I know a lot of unorthodox strategies as well that work in specific circumstances. Overall though, I'm able to maintain good SA of what the enemy team is doing, which allows me to stay a step ahead of them.

Example 1 (Wanderer can back me up on this one):
- Map is River City Assault. Our team spawned on the side of the ship. We had 1 disconnect.
- Naturally, the team gravitated towards fighting behind the Citadel, which often isn't a good position. Sure enough, we get pinned down there, and we already lost 2 players who went far left towards the upper city side overlooking the dropship.
- At this moment the score is 0-2 (0-3 technically because of disconnect). We have 9 guys directly behind the citadel. The water to the right is clear, and on the enemy team's side, there's 4 mechs behind the citadel, and 1 mech near their base. The rest of their team was on the left side near the dropship area after our 2 doomed players tried to push left.
- If we pushed across water to the enemy team's base, we stood a good chance at being able to capture it, or force their team to come at us one at a time. So I called for everybody to start moving far right to go towards their base.
- Result: 1 single player pushed with me (I'm in a Kit Fox with ECM). Halfway across the water while we're taking fire from the few mechs that are behind the citadel we notice our team is still hiding behind their side of the building.
- Both of us turn around and again I state they need to come across water now while it's mostly clear. With that we begin moving again to the right. Once again we get halfway across the water and notice our team isn't following us.
- At this point as I'm running back for a third and final try to rally the team to push, a Jenner on top of the Citadel killed me with a well placed laser shot.
- The enemy team is still split. My team still has a chance to take their base with minimal effort, so I again state (while I'm dead) that they need to push NOW or else they're going to get picked off one by one where they are. Nobody moves.
- Nope, they elect to stay there. A couple minutes later another 2 friendlies die, and the enemy mechs that were near the shuttle have now come back to the citadel's left side. The enemy team pushes from both sides, catching our remaining mechs in the water behind the citadel from the right and left. 2 escaped towards upper city but were hunted down in short order.

My plans aren't flawless. Sometimes the enemy does something unorthodox I wouldn't expect. Sometimes they push faster than I can react and the general plan turns into, "Shoot a lot and hope for the best." I make mistakes that will cause my team to lose because I, nor anybody else, can perfectly orchestrate a good plan 100% of the time.

I will say this though. No matter how low in skill the individual players on my team are, if they follow the plan, we often win. The times that hurt the most are when I have a team that follows my plans and we lose, because I know I likely contributed to that failure with a bad plan, or a plan that was countered. It doesn't happen often as most losses happen when my team pays absolutely no attention to the plan, but when it does, I apologize to my team, congratulate the other team for playing well, and I move on, hoping to learn from the game to better my future strategies.



This is why when someone comes up with at least a halfway decent plan, I will always back it even if I disagree.

Doing something, as a team, is better than doing nothing.

It also takes the opposing team off guard if their plan is "shoot a lot and hope more of the other team dies".


You can't expect every plan to work everytime, everyone loses sometimes.

I never mind the losses when the team tried, and did "something" together as a unit as opposed to suicide rushing, or hiding in a hole while the enemy comes to kill you.

#39 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 11:26 AM

View PostUltimatum X, on 24 August 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:



This is why when someone comes up with at least a halfway decent plan, I will always back it even if I disagree.

Doing something, as a team, is better than doing nothing.

It also takes the opposing team off guard if their plan is "shoot a lot and hope more of the other team dies".


You can't expect every plan to work everytime, everyone loses sometimes.

I never mind the losses when the team tried, and did "something" together as a unit as opposed to suicide rushing, or hiding in a hole while the enemy comes to kill you.

a decent plan now is usually better than the perfect plan AFTER the match ends.

And especially in PUG queue, almost certainly better than the other team will have. (because it appears 75% or more of all solo drops, there is no attempt at a plan).


It's staggering just how many people "don't get it" in that regard. Or perhaps don't care as long as they perceive they are boosting their stats.

Have a teamamate who kinda has a problem with the above mentioned issue. He is a good guy, good pilot. Too indecisive to drop command though. Constantly hems and haws, takes forever to make a decision, and constantly changes his mind. Worse, he vocalizes his doubts. So when it's time to be decisive, of course, no one listens.

Unless you come across a total disaster, it's best to stick with your original plan, or modify a version of it on the fly, than to become a yo-yo, constantly reacting to the other team. Tactically speaking our maps are tiny and limited, as are our combat options. Most cases, coordination, and aggressive initiative mean more than trying to concoct the perfect plan.

Do you really think the Comp teams are led and people by Military Geniuses? Lol. Hardly.

They are mostly made up of highly skilled, practiced twitch shooters who practice a crap load, usually with a ton of the same people, and are simply decisive and aggressive, taking the initiative and focusing fire. Shock and Awe is what they push, most of the time. The guys are good, but I have yet to see any Erwin Rommels, Robert E Lees or Alexander the Greats in this game.

Speed, initiative, coordination, focused fire. And you will win far more than you lose.

Pucker up, turtle, be indecisive and reactionary, and you will lose more than you win. Period.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 August 2014 - 11:27 AM.


#40 Xarian

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 11:29 AM

If you are snickering to yourself that you meant "get good" when you fooled the other team into thinking you were saying "good game", then I think you need to seriously consider re-evaluating your life: you're bad-mannered, angry, and have major issues with passive aggression.

It's a video game wherein 24 players of mixed skill and experience levels fight each other for a few CBills and a couple of tally marks on a Challenge screen. Any game where nobody is griefing is good. Any game where I have fun, griefers or not, is good. I'm a decent player, and I win more often than not - but if my team is being dumb and we have 4 rambos and a DC or two who ruin our chances of winning, I'm not going to freak out. It goes with the territory. If I was obsessed with being the best, I'd go play chess.





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