104 replies to this topic

[n r g]

Roland, on 24 August 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

It's the most frustrating when you get multiple kills on your own, then turn around and realize that everyone on your team has somehow died and not killed anyone.. or seemingly even done significant damage to the remaining mechs.

What are ya gonna do though.

Once again, kills mean relatively nothing.

It's very easy to do 200dmg and cherrypick /steal kills.

Yes, the player that does 1k damage should focus torso's and get the skill, but when doing damage that high, you tend to have to peak alot and it's not always feasible to finish the kill because you have to over extend your exposure and that could be the difference between life or death.

[CN9 ACE PILOT]

E N E R G Y, on 24 August 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

Uh, damages tell the story dude.

You can say all night long how the guy complaining or bitching is not "RIGHT" but when he does 1,000 damage and the you and the rest of the team does <200, there's no dispute.

Damages don't lie.

Not entirely sure what that has to do with what i said, i think you might have been answering to another post of mine.

But damage does lie.

Fighting skills does not = more damage.

Less damage to kill 1 enemy is skill, not when splashing more. An example of this is going for a side torso on a Jaeger that you know is most likely running a XL, it will go down with less than 100 damage focused to one ST, but if some one is splashing it all over it's legs, torso, arms and gets 300+ out of killing one unit, how does that attribute to skill?

P.S. I have played with you, and against you. And i respect you, i know you are skilled, however, because of that if i'm against you i'll let my whole team to focus you down first, your build, your mech, so yeah, you might do the most damage, but with you out of the picture i'll make sure my team steam rolls your team. I might have not ended up with 1k+ damage, but without them knowing what i told them, it makes the picture more, than just the post game screen.

Edited by CN9 ACE PILOT, 24 August 2014 - 01:12 PM.

[bobF]

I've never seen more whining and complaining in team and general chat than when the "competitive players" have been forced out of their premades to do this challenge. Then the screenshots are posted. What a joke. Yeah, you did a lot of damage in your TBR to a bunch of trail mechs piloted by nubs, but that's not enough to get the job done. Then, pro guys in their TBRs, in an attempt at "leadership," say something stupid like "follow me and shoot what I shoot if you want to win." Really?

I've seen players with founder tags complaining and whining, while we were winning, because apparently he didn't get some kind of support and got damaged. I've seen founder tags stay and complain for 13m after dying in 2m, berating everyone on how bad they sucked.

Look, I'm sorry if the pug queue is too hard for you guys. Maybe you're just a baddy, who gets carried by actually good players. Here's an easy way to tell:

The Bad

- mentions in all their chat and forums posts that the teams they're on for this challenge suck, pugs are clueless, and that <insert pejorative term for new or solo player here> should all be banned by PGI because they suck so bad (then post a screen with over 9k dmg in their TBR, but only like 4 kills, to prove "skill")

The Good

- laugh about how high their kdr is after shooting up nubs, and/or mention how easy it was to beat the challenge by being patient and attempting communication

It's that simple. People behave the same in every PvP game. Bads always blame others, and skilled players aren't mad very often because they are too busy actually winning.

Yeah, the team was bad, with you right there also being bad. Suck it up, stfu, quit the match and move on to the next drop.

[KamikazeRat]

CN9 ACE PILOT, on 24 August 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

But damage does lie.

Fighting skills does not = more damage.

Less damage to kill 1 enemy is skill, not when splashing more. An example of this is going for a side torso on a Jaeger that you know is most likely running a XL, it will go down with less than 100 damage focused to one ST, but if some one is splashing it all over it's legs, torso, arms and gets 300+ out of killing one unit, how does that attribute to skill?

QFT

1300+ damage with only 3 dead on the other team, means you were splashing damage around, im sure every last one of the enemy team was beaten and bloody, but without kills the game rolls on, sure, they may be missing parts, bloody and beaten, but they're still rolling. and they rolled right over you.

damage =/= victory

Edited by KamikazeRat, 24 August 2014 - 01:42 PM.

[Dahnyol]

wanderer, on 24 August 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

Chlorine is toxic. We use it to keep the pool clean.

The game needs more chlorine and less sweet food for the mold to grow on.
Amusing note: For those who haven't figured it out by now- when many teams tell you "GG" after a game where your team stank, it also makes a "polite", backhanded note to "Get Good".

Trust me. I've been on the team chats where the winners are laughing their assets off in TS or team chat at the losers with every "GG". Don't tell the other team "GG". If you really want to pat them on the back, come up with something original that actually expresses your feelings in a method that cannot be so easily subverted to mocking them.

(Also, see "ggclose" and other snarkery. I believe that a losing team should slap itself in the face as a matter of course, it's not the winner's job or place to do so- or to praise their poor performance as good, unless you like having easy target practice for next time.)

E N E R G Y, on 24 August 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

Uh, damages tell the story dude.

You can say all night long how the guy complaining or bitching is not "RIGHT" but when he does 1,000 damage and the you and the rest of the team does <200, there's no dispute.

Damages don't lie.

E N E R G Y, on 24 August 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

Once again, kills mean relatively nothing.

It's very easy to do 200dmg and cherrypick /steal kills.

Yes, the player that does 1k damage should focus torso's and get the skill, but when doing damage that high, you tend to have to peak alot and it's not always feasible to finish the kill because you have to over extend your exposure and that could be the difference between life or death.

Just reading this line of thought...I'm pretty sure neither of you have very successful social interactions with people outside of internet games. Way to look only at your own perspectives and line of thought. The impunity of responsibility you two give yourselves are at awesome-denial levels.

[Scratx]

KamikazeRat, on 24 August 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

QFT

1300+ damage with only 3 dead on the other team, means you were splashing damage around, im sure every last one of the enemy team was beaten and bloody, but without kills the game rolls on, sure, they may be missing parts, bloody and beaten, but they're still rolling. and they rolled right over you.

damage =/= victory

Or he was blasting CT armor away and others were scoring the killing blows.

Neither damage nor kills tell the true story. But they're indicators.

[KamikazeRat]

Scratx, on 24 August 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Or he was blasting CT armor away and others were scoring the killing blows.

Neither damage nor kills tell the true story. But they're indicators.

if he blasted away 1300 damage and had his kills stolen, there would be more then 3 dead on the enemy team. total, his kill score was 1. im not out to lambast his performance or him personally, just the idea that damage is the only factor that matters and it isnt.

[Willard Phule]

Xarian, on 24 August 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

Trial mech in 3rd person occasionally. Firing at teammates almost never. When it does happen, it's not a trial guy - the 3 times I've seen it happen recently, it was a veteran player who I'd seen complaining about his team in other games, and then trying to say "hey, IFF is screwed up, he didn't have a triangle!". Yeah, dude, because the enemy team is going to be standing next to you at 10 seconds into the match, right?

That's something I've wondered about. I mean "new players" that can't figure out the basics don't end up in the group queue as often as they do the solo queue. I'm thinking in the group queue, they use 3PV for a tactical advantage. Here in the solo queue...more often than not, it's a matter of them not knowing how to get out of it.

Xarian, on 24 August 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

Happens constantly; think these are usually new players who just haven't practiced much yet. Or really old people who can't figure out how the doohickey thingmajig works.

Hey, I resemble that remark. I know how the doohickey works but I'm trying to figure out the thingamajig and the whatsit.

Xarian, on 24 August 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

Only 1 guy who complained about it, and the entire team told him to get his own damn locks.

We do that in the solo queue, too....or, at least, I do. I try to explain that noone's going to stand out in the open holding locks for them.

[Sephlock]

Viktor Drake, on 24 August 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

I just had it happen last match were I commented on my frustration that I had three bad teams in a row. Of course the comeback was something along the line of "Oh so its all the teams fault right?" with the implication that I was claiming everyone else sucked but I was great.

The thing is, saying that your team sucks doesn't mean that the players on your team suck, it just means that your "Team" as in everyone actually coming together to win a match, sucked in that regard.

You can have the absolute best individual players imaginable, and if they all decide to go do their own thing running all over the map, ignoring everything but their own agendas then your team is going to suck and fail.

So try not to take things so personal when someone coments that the team sucks because obviously it did suck or you wouldn't have lost 0-12.

[Aresye]

Damage is more often a good indication than it is a bad indication.

Yes, a lot of damage can end up splashed around, or a good chunk of it could be from a single well placed artillery strike, but a lot of times when you see a recognizable player racking up 1300+ damage on the team, the majority of that is in fact, well placed shots.

I don't exactly know where this commonly accepted belief started that high damage is solely because players are not shooting accurately.

<elitist attitude>
Whether people want to admit it or not, most times people see an incredibly high damage player on the losing side, there's only one explanation. That player spent the entire match coring out nearly every player on the enemy team, and the rest of his teammates couldn't even put out enough damage to finish them off. He worked hard through the entire game and died contently, knowing he has given the rest of his team a silver platter for an easy victory, and then watches in horror as they drop it.
</elitist attitude>

[Mcgral18]

KamikazeRat, on 24 August 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

if he blasted away 1300 damage and had his kills stolen, there would be more then 3 dead on the enemy team. total, his kill score was 1. im not out to lambast his performance or him personally, just the idea that damage is the only factor that matters and it isnt.

There is a person shooting at me, I will shoot at him. Oh look, he went around a corner and 2 of his 12 friends appeared...I will not shoot them and continue to hunt that one target, who is hiding behind his team.

Said no one.


You will shoot the most viable target in your crosshairs, sometimes that includes fresh targets. The smart ones who are damaged will not stand and face you, but will fall back to their team, and try to Gank and Roflstomp you. If it's 1 VS 12, it's rare they will be stupid enough to let you hit a single target.

This leads to inflated damage scores but not kills if your team is absolutely terrible, since they didn't damage anything. If they weren't incompetent, then a single person can net over a half dozen kills.


Saying 1300 damage is wasted isn't quite true, since that's at least 3 mechs with multiple cored sections, or 12 CT cored opponents. You could use that excuse for 200 damage, but not 1300.

[RussianWolf]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 August 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

so, in that instance, the team sucked, yes? Not saying vocalizing it usually accomplishes anything useful, but when you get rolled 12-0? If someone says "we sucked", about the only legit answer is "Yup, and you were part of it".

problem I see is they don't say "we sucked", they say thing like " You are all funkin' idiots", or "just unistall , no sense playing something you'll never be good at" or the like.

When I see this, I make a mental note so that I can screw with them again if I see them.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bulletsponge0, on 24 August 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

well, everyone around here knows that you aren't your normal mechwarrior

It's how I normally play MechWarrior

[Turist0AT]

Saying the team is bad is stupid. Doesnt change anything except you get a hard on for insulting players and making new players not wana play.
Wich in return makes you an ass'hole.

Edited by Turist0AT, 24 August 2014 - 03:55 PM.

[KamikazeRat]

Mcgral18, on 24 August 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

There is a person shooting at me, I will shoot at him. Oh look, he went around a corner and 2 of his 12 friends appeared...I will not shoot them and continue to hunt that one target, who is hiding behind his team.

Said no one.


You will shoot the most viable target in your crosshairs, sometimes that includes fresh targets. The smart ones who are damaged will not stand and face you, but will fall back to their team, and try to Gank and Roflstomp you. If it's 1 VS 12, it's rare they will be stupid enough to let you hit a single target.

This leads to inflated damage scores but not kills if your team is absolutely terrible, since they didn't damage anything. If they weren't incompetent, then a single person can net over a half dozen kills.


Saying 1300 damage is wasted isn't quite true, since that's at least 3 mechs with multiple cored sections, or 12 CT cored opponents. You could use that excuse for 200 damage, but not 1300.

i think i need to clarify a little, 1300 damage spread around, isn't a "waste" of damage with only 3 dead, it just isn't as effective of a metric as people make it out to be. Nor is kills as a number alone, i can deal 15 damage and have 5 kills with a single small laser and get every kill on the battlefield and still loose a match. but damage without dropping mechs still allows them to spout damage, as they are retreating to rear-line positions.

i wasn't saying he sucked, i wasn't saying he didnt do all he could, i wasn't saying his team sucked or that his team DIDNT suck...im saying all these numbers on the final tally screen are but a fraction of the whole story of why a match was won or lost. And posting them as a arguement that he is good and his team sucked is a fallacy without having a recording of the entire match from multiple points of view.
EDIT: again, nothing against him specifically, just the midset.

Edited by KamikazeRat, 24 August 2014 - 04:17 PM.

[Deathlike]

TBH, I think venting your displeasure in your team's performance is fine... as long as it's not excessive. Just make sure to accept blame, even if you made 11 kills and couldn't make the final one. It's still a team failure no matter how you put it.

On the other hand, seeing all the farmers and players that give up for one reason or another are factors in losses... whether you can actually guarantee that is another matter, but the reality is that you are given the hand you are dealt... and whenever you play in the solo queue, you simply have to accept that failure is an option.

[xhrit]

bobF, on 24 August 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

laugh about how high their kdr is after shooting up nubs, and/or mention how easy it was to beat the challenge by being patient and attempting communication It's that simple. People behave the same in every PvP game. Bads always blame others, and skilled players aren't mad very often because they are too busy actually winning. Yeah, the team was bad, with you right there also being bad. Suck it up, stfu, quit the match and move on to the next drop.

I just had one of the most amazing PUG matches I have ever played - Normally I only upload my recordings if I score massive damage, or super high kill scores, but my contribution this match was not high damage nor lots of kills, but something far more valuable... typing a plan in chat. Being patient and attempting communication won the match, with 27 seconds on the clock, after a 4v8 comeback.

[wanderer]

Quote

Just reading this line of thought...I'm pretty sure neither of you have very successful social interactions with people outside of internet games.

Plenty, actually.

Quote

Way to look only at your own perspectives and line of thought. The impunity of responsibility you two give yourselves are at awesome-denial levels.

This implies that I don't include myself in the "Good stomp, we sucked" part of things.

Every time a team loses, you are part of the failure. Your team loses badly, you failed badly. You, me,and every member of that team caused that to happen. If you failed so catastrophically as a team that you're staring at an end board with a 3:1 or worse kill ratio...yes, you sucked. Collectively and personally,you were bad. Fail to admit it and you will never correct it- every "GG" is a soft pat on the back to soothe you into feeling better about that failure and never correcting it.

That's great for the winners, BTW. Helping you rationalize away the "I was bad" also means you never really can face it and get good, leaving them more frequent target practice for next time.

I do, every time I lose. What could I have done to be more effective? Where did I make mistakes? Heck, I ask myself that when I win.

Do you? If not, you're part of the problem. It ticks people like E N E R G Y off more because he knows the level of effort much of the PUG team put out isn't even close. Because they don't care. Hence, they will never be good, or really improve, and the cycle of being speed bumps in the PUG queue goes on and on.

[Odins Fist]

In MWO... If you're not DOING damage.. You're taking damage.

Odins Fist, on 24 August 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

When you have a match with (7) people doing under 100 damage, (1) under 150 and (1) more under 200, then potato to the 9th power.

[Solaxxas]

Just like fat shaming doesn't actually work and makes people eat even more for their anxiety, so doesn't telling people they suck make them any better. Sure, a precious couple might suck it up and strive to do better - but most wont and in fact will just throw in the towel. Most people will know they did not do good without a reminder about it. An angry response to the topical message means exactly that.

I concur with many others here, that calling out your team really only says some not very good things about you rather than your team.