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Most Common "bad" Strategies Or Mistakes By Map


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#41 QuackAttack

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 12:15 PM

View PostKaeb Odellas, on 26 August 2014 - 01:00 AM, said:

Here's a common mistake in every map in Conquest: Capping points while a fight is going on.

Seriously people. Caps rarely matter in conquest. Kills first, caps a very distant second. Cap when you've already reduced the enemy to scrap and don't feel like chasing down that last spider.


Funny you bring this up, me and another Jenner both with cap accelerators managed to get all the outlying points on HPG before the fight at theta got ugly. The Red team balled up underneath and held the point but by the time they won there the two of us split up for the easy win. If you are playing conquest don't be surprised by the folks who actually Play Conquest.

#42 IraqiWalker

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 05:27 PM

View PostKaeb Odellas, on 02 September 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:


Both sides have exactly the same amount of each weight class if the matchmaker is working, so the "more mediums and lights" thing hasn't been relevant in a while. I guess private matches might make it a thing, but we're not talking about those? Having more lights and mediums only mattered on Alpine and Terra Therma when matchmaker didn't take weight classes into account, but that era is long gone.

The fact of the matter is, getting an early advantage in points does not matter at all if your enemy is getting an early advantage in kills. Getting a 4-1 cap advantage is no guarantee of victory if you gave up 6 mechs in the process. The enemy team can always split into two forces to retake points while retaining fire superiority.

I'm not against the idea of gaining a 3-2 cap advantage to force the enemy's hand, but expending the time and resources to get a 3-1 or 4-1 is just foolish. The best way to win the match is to kill your enemy, full stop. Dead mechs can't cap points or get kills, after all. An early cap lead can certainly help you kill the enemy, but it should not be a goal unto itself.

The MM hasn't done weight class matching in forever. 3/3/3/3 only works on premade groups, causing matches where you still end up with 6 assaults on one team every now and then.

PGI messed up when the lowered the rewards for capping, and made killing the highest reward strategy. Conquest is all about power plays in multiple locations across the map, but with lower rewards in that mode, people still rush to get a kill. However, getting a cap lead, and stalling your opponents, will lead to more wins than most other strategies.

View PostQuackAttack, on 02 September 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:


Funny you bring this up, me and another Jenner both with cap accelerators managed to get all the outlying points on HPG before the fight at theta got ugly. The Red team balled up underneath and held the point but by the time they won there the two of us split up for the easy win. If you are playing conquest don't be surprised by the folks who actually Play Conquest.


Thank you.

#43 JigglyMoobs

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 11:05 PM

View PostQuackAttack, on 02 September 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:


Funny you bring this up, me and another Jenner both with cap accelerators managed to get all the outlying points on HPG before the fight at theta got ugly. The Red team balled up underneath and held the point but by the time they won there the two of us split up for the easy win. If you are playing conquest don't be surprised by the folks who actually Play Conquest.


Having 2 lights split off for caps is not a bad thing in conquest. Having more than 3 leave is often fatal.

You neglected to credit the rest of your team for keeping the enmy entangled at theta, which was actually a crucial contributor to your victory.

#44 Kaeb Odellas

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:40 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 02 September 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

The MM hasn't done weight class matching in forever. 3/3/3/3 only works on premade groups, causing matches where you still end up with 6 assaults on one team every now and then.


The matchmaker attempts to match each team in number of mechs per class. It doesn't strictly enforce 3/3/3/3 so you might see both teams with 2/2/4/4 or something crazier, but they should have the same numbers of each class. Maybe something breaks every so often, but it's very rare that I actually see teams imbalanced by weight class (though total tonnage isn't taken into account)


View PostQuackAttack, on 02 September 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:


Funny you bring this up, me and another Jenner both with cap accelerators managed to get all the outlying points on HPG before the fight at theta got ugly. The Red team balled up underneath and held the point but by the time they won there the two of us split up for the easy win. If you are playing conquest don't be surprised by the folks who actually Play Conquest.


You won because the enemy lights didn't think to break off and chase you down or counter-cap once the main fight had swung heavily in their favor, and it was an empty victory at that. The enemy team likely earned far more rewards and drew far more enjoyment killing off your team than you did standing in red boxes for 10 minutes. And my beef with Conquest caps is that newbie players tend to spend far more emphasis on capping points than they should, especially the heavies and mediums.
And realistically, could a commander really consider losing 500 tons of battlemechs and 10 pilots to gain 750 nebulous units of "resources" a victory? By any sane metric I would call that a loss, or a pyrrhic victory at best. How would a faction even capitalize on those gained resources with only 2 Jenners on the ground and an entire company of enemy mechs? Are these "resources" magically teleported from the mining rigs to the owner's warehouses? Do the mining rigs self-destruct after someone collects 750 units? The entire premise behind Conquest is nonsensical and poorly conceived. It needs to be redesigned from the ground up.

#45 QuackAttack

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 06:41 AM

View PostJigglyMoobs, on 02 September 2014 - 11:05 PM, said:

Having 2 lights split off for caps is not a bad thing in conquest. Having more than 3 leave is often fatal.

You neglected to credit the rest of your team for keeping the enmy entangled at theta, which was actually a crucial contributor to your victory.


On that one I'll credit all but the guy who assumed command, told us to ignore caps and rush theta. And that "capping never wins" He died and spent the match yelling at us for securing the win.

View PostKaeb Odellas, on 03 September 2014 - 12:40 AM, said:


The matchmaker attempts to match each team in number of mechs per class. It doesn't strictly enforce 3/3/3/3 so you might see both teams with 2/2/4/4 or something crazier, but they should have the same numbers of each class. Maybe something breaks every so often, but it's very rare that I actually see teams imbalanced by weight class (though total tonnage isn't taken into account)




You won because the enemy lights didn't think to break off and chase you down or counter-cap once the main fight had swung heavily in their favor, and it was an empty victory at that. The enemy team likely earned far more rewards and drew far more enjoyment killing off your team than you did standing in red boxes for 10 minutes. And my beef with Conquest caps is that newbie players tend to spend far more emphasis on capping points than they should, especially the heavies and mediums.
And realistically, could a commander really consider losing 500 tons of battlemechs and 10 pilots to gain 750 nebulous units of "resources" a victory? By any sane metric I would call that a loss, or a pyrrhic victory at best. How would a faction even capitalize on those gained resources with only 2 Jenners on the ground and an entire company of enemy mechs? Are these "resources" magically teleported from the mining rigs to the owner's warehouses? Do the mining rigs self-destruct after someone collects 750 units? The entire premise behind Conquest is nonsensical and poorly conceived. It needs to be redesigned from the ground up.


But we won :) The rules for Conquest are gather 750 or kill. I like the extra bit involved and play conquest almost entirely. If you don't like the capping on conquest you can now choose to never drop on that map again. I don't need the c-bills or xp thus I play to win the match.

#46 Carlos Vinson

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 10:41 AM

View PostDarth Futuza, on 31 August 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

Worst thing you can do:

Not communicate with your team via chat (especially if we're talking pugs here).


Guilty as charged! :( Memo to self!

If I may also point out, not coming to the aid of a team mate. There have been a number of times when I have found myself in trouble 1 vs 3 look at the mini map and there sits several team mates...not doing anything...frustrating.

#47 Darth Futuza

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:12 AM

View PostCarlos Vinson, on 03 September 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:


Guilty as charged! :( Memo to self!

If I may also point out, not coming to the aid of a team mate. There have been a number of times when I have found myself in trouble 1 vs 3 look at the mini map and there sits several team mates...not doing anything...frustrating.

Sometimes, I'll admit it, I let my teammates be bait (especially if they are ignoring orders and heading off in a really stupid direction). This way I can sneak up on enemies who take the bait and core their rear torso.

#48 QuackAttack

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 01:38 PM

View PostDarth Futuza, on 03 September 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

Sometimes, I'll admit it, I let my teammates be bait (especially if they are ignoring orders and heading off in a really stupid direction). This way I can sneak up on enemies who take the bait and core their rear torso.


I prefer to call that flanking. :)

#49 kosmos1214

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 02:55 PM

View PostQuackAttack, on 03 September 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:


I prefer to call that flanking. :)

lol if your team mate guys is getting shot in the back is it still flanking ???

#50 Kain Demos

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:42 AM

That damn Volcano in Terra Therma is the bane of my existence. Perfect example below.

Last night I thought I was on a team that wasn't full of scared pilots as a whole lance rushed right in and went counter clockwise so I went in going clockwise (Timberwolf with 2 LPL/1 UAC10 came in from south) taking potshots at 3-4 enemies that were pouring in from the North and going clockwise to meeet my teammates. I was going for the western entrance where I had seen an LRM boat (another Timberwolf) pecking my teammates.

I hugged the wall enough so he would never get a shot off as I approached and did see another guy from the North Entrance running to try to help his buddy but I did get there first and tore into him pretty good (he had no real short range weaponry) by the time the Jagermech came to his rescue and started rocking me with AC hits. I wasn't taking fire from the other "doors" so figured the fight must still be pretty intense so I would be safe to 1v1 this Jager then see if that Timberwolf still wanted some. I ended up overheating (so easy to do on this map) trying to finish the Jager but when I powered up I was done---damage was coming from all over the place and I looked at my radar and I was the only blue dot in the Volcano against 5 of them now.

Needless to say I was dead and then I noticed another dead team mate swearing in chat calling all of my team a bunch of *******. Apparently he was the first to go down and when he started getting focused everyone else just bailed on him. After they wasted him they turned on me and that was that.

This has become my least favorite map, I just can't stand how that volcano is like a black hole that all the mechs are drawn to yet rarely does anyone fight it out like they should. When I get this map in Assault mode sometimes I PLEAD with the team to ignore the Volcano (seriously, why go in there when the enemy base has other routes of approach?) since it always ends in *********** and get completely ignored. The 3 or 4 times I have won the argument though we ended up getting nearly the whole team in the base while the enemy still hides in the doorways to the volcano wondering where we went since apparently we didn't get the "lets have a 12v12 deathmatch in a volcano on assault mode" memo.

Edited by Kain Thul, 10 September 2014 - 08:43 AM.


#51 Jon Gotham

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 09:08 AM

First thing to add is: Hesitation will always kill you. Seriously people, simply stop it. Stop cowering. Look,think then ACT.

Terra Therma: Stalling at entrance, or going in and all facing same way.
Canyon: Going low into the centre or going into valleys. HELLO people, height advantage doctrine exists for a reason...
Crimson Straight: Going under then coming up the ramp so enemy can get free 30 secs of back shots and sideshots before you can form a firing line.
Alpine: Going radio tower then fighting on that silly double hill next to the mountain, you can be attacked from at least three directions and two elevations...
HPG: If staying above ground failing to take the centre rise....if going below ground failing to cover all exits...

#52 Clownwarlord

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 09:14 PM

All strategies are bad strategies in the solo cue. Outside of everyone move right or everyone move left there really hasn't been a good strategy because of the lack of ability to communicate. The basic communications you can find in solo cue other then your mom comments are move to ** or everyone go (right or left) out side of that in text it is hard to give complex orders to actually execute a strategy.

When it comes to group cue it gets better because usually you stick with your group but out side of the flank move during a brawl there really isn't anything a 4 man can do in that cue as a strategy. Now when you get to an 8 man or 12 man you can be a little more complex with ambushes and defensive strategy because you can order more of your friendly mechs to focus fire on a single individual which eliminating enemy elements is a winning factor in any match.

So in short nope there really is just bad strategies in group cue and solo cue. If you can find a tournament team and drop in 12 mans you can do more aggressive or defensive strategies. [REDACTED, its no recruitment thread]

Good luck.

Edited by Catalina Steiner, 26 September 2014 - 07:43 AM.


#53 gondorff

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 04:01 PM

WAIT FOR YOUR ASSAULTS.
WAIT FOR YOUR ASSAULTS.
WAIT FOR YOUR ASSAULTS.

I dont know. Maybe posting it tree times makes it better somehow.
No seriously. I dare to count how many times I was left to die on a map with no support and just sitting on a 300 Engine, which is the biggest engine that will fit in some mechs.

This happens regulary on River City, when starting on the lower left. If you are in an Assault and at that starting point, you have to run like hell or, otherwise, you will be left by the wayside. Its a race between the first Light spotting you for a massive LRM-fire by the CC-running enemy team and you, running after your teammates.

But, come to think of it, it is a excellent way of getting rid of those pesky extra 80+ tons. ;)

Edited by gondorff, 13 September 2014 - 04:03 PM.


#54 Pezzer

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 04:12 PM

Idk if someone else mentioned this, just popping in to comment before getting in a match.

Terra Therma: Entering Mount Doom or any of its' choke points. Lights and long-range Mechs can take advantage of Mt Doom/the center of the map, but it's almost always better if the main force heads through one of the chokepoints/routes going AROUND Mt. Doom when compared to going through it or sitting at one of the bridges. Bridges and those sniping points turn into deadly bottlenecks when more than 2 or 3 mechs are using them, and once again the 2 or 3 mechs using them should be equipped with long-range weapons. Lights can use Mount Doom to flank and/or kill LRM boats.

^I've been the light, the long-range sniper, and the med-range Assault who got stuck at one of the bottlenecks. Speaking from experience, 4/5 times I've seen a Doom rush or playing the bottleneck game get the entire team killed.

#55 RazorbeastFXK3

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 05:15 PM

That's the part that's irritating to me. While I'm looking out for enemy contacts I'm also monitoring where my friendly units are too. Most times I see my units getting picked off 'cause they split up and go rogue 'cause they "know what they're doing" yet fail to report the locations and numbers of where and what killed them or what is trying to kill them..

Plenty of times I don't see any coordination/communication over the textlnes (I understand how difficult it may be at times to shout out commands while under fire) leaving me wondering/asking what the plan is and most times get responses of "don't die" "kill many" "stay grouped"

I'm sure a lot of that will change soon as I build up a friendlist and get voice hooked up for myself but yeah.. still irritating.

View PostIndiandream, on 30 August 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

So I suggested on the comms that we go over the island all the way to far city on the side (Our lance were in reasonable mobile mechs, so I deemed it feasible - the guys say "it sounds crazy but why not?"). Lucky for us, the PUGs caught wind that something was up and followed.


EDIT: Oh.. I forgot to add in a "Bad" strategy too.. Shoving yourself up the tailpipe of your mates (getting right ontop of their six) so they can't throw their mechs into reverse to get themselves out of a bad situation if needed 'cause you're blocking their only escape route from enemy fire.

More than once I'll be peeking around the corner to spot enemy contacts, start taking fire and try to retreat back behind cover only to find some idiot parked right behind me so I can't. When it happens to some players they end up shooting up their friendly units out of frustration.

Edited by RazorbeastFXK3, 13 September 2014 - 05:21 PM.


#56 JC Daxion

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 03:09 PM

I love conquest.. But i never get the whole Keep running and capping mentality. You need 3 caps to win, or kill um all.. more often than not, your base cap will drop to a tiny team, that if you are set up right, your main team can be close by to wipe um out. Kill 2-3 of their wolf pack, Keep your cap.. and the rest of the game is easy pickings.

it takes a long time to flip a cap now, so guarding them is much more important than the days of flipping a cap in 30 secs. (outside of a few mechs all with cap speed)

Some maps, you have a 3 cap triangle that is super easy to defend.. Frozen city, River city, alpine and even forest colony. Heck even HPG, grab theta early, and watch the doors. I can't count how many times i won a conquest match, because we just watched a cap, and killed there little mechs, that thought they could sneak in and take our base cap.

a respond-er pack, of a fast medium and light, with LRM support is a great anti-cap flipper pack., typically, unless they have a few full lances, that pack can defend a couple caps more often than not.

#57 Bigbacon

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 10:28 AM

View Postgondorff, on 13 September 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

WAIT FOR YOUR ASSAULTS.
WAIT FOR YOUR ASSAULTS.
WAIT FOR YOUR ASSAULTS.

I dont know. Maybe posting it tree times makes it better somehow.
No seriously. I dare to count how many times I was left to die on a map with no support and just sitting on a 300 Engine, which is the biggest engine that will fit in some mechs.

This happens regulary on River City, when starting on the lower left. If you are in an Assault and at that starting point, you have to run like hell or, otherwise, you will be left by the wayside. Its a race between the first Light spotting you for a massive LRM-fire by the CC-running enemy team and you, running after your teammates.

But, come to think of it, it is a excellent way of getting rid of those pesky extra 80+ tons. ;)


sadly, this has more to do with poor map design than bad tactics.

#58 Zordicron

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 08:24 PM

So, I wont speak too conquest as i do not play it outside of some random "lets just see" nights as in general PUG conquest is herding cats.

That said, most common mistakes-

CAMPING.

No really, camping kills, all the clans OP PLZ nerf threads and the like, campers. Camping allows the enemy to figure out a position where they can put the advantages they have to work. be it long range snipers, LRM boats that need some spotters, Team full of brawlers: WHEN YOU SIT ON YOUR ASS THEY MOVE INTO POSITION TO KILL YOU. LRM boats will get their spots and you will get pinned in, or forced to move somewhere you dont want to. Brawl squad is pleased as peach you decided to **** off and let them cover the ground to come gank you. Snipers obviously have a range advantage, or position advantage because you just sat there and they moved to a spot they can hit you much more easily then you can hit back.

This is like the crux of errors on every map. There are indeed certain points on most maps that emphasize the issue. For instance, camping C4 corner on Canyon. FFS people, it is a pointy corner that cant possibly shield the whole team, has bad vantage points to locate and spot the enemy, leaves almost no room for flanks or escapes etc, and worst of all it can be flanked from every direction on the map at the same time. Got that twin PPC highlander, wanna snipe some guys? Sure go hump a ridge at C4, get blown away by enemy clan mechs, then go to forums and cry about nerfs. Or hump a ridge at C4, get spotted by ECM raven that ran off to the side(either side) and get pinned down behind the one pointy rock by enemy lrm boats, go to forums and cry about lrms. Or stand there and ridge hump C4, trying to get that damn blackjack over in the middle, while enemy DWF/DDC squad moves in from well, any direction and promtly facewrecks you to cinders. Then go to the forums.......

Anyway, the team that is the most aware will win, followed by the team that is decisive and moves as a unit and forces the enemy to fight in areas/terms they arent ready for. It's why we see things like wolfpacks destroying lances 3 times their tonnage, medium and heavy brawlers wiping out half the enemy team, well most of the matches considered ROFLSTOMPS are mostly populated by campers and non-campers that ran over them.

Learn the maps layout, learn to look at the damn radar, move to respond to the enemy, move to take offense to the enemy, move to keep the enemy from gaining advantage and better yet giving advantage to yourself while doing it. WIN.

#59 Kain Demos

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 04:43 PM

View Postkamiko kross, on 10 September 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

First thing to add is: Hesitation will always kill you. Seriously people, simply stop it. Stop cowering. Look,think then ACT.

Terra Therma: Stalling at entrance, or going in and all facing same way.
Canyon: Going low into the centre or going into valleys. HELLO people, height advantage doctrine exists for a reason...
Crimson Straight: Going under then coming up the ramp so enemy can get free 30 secs of back shots and sideshots before you can form a firing line.
Alpine: Going radio tower then fighting on that silly double hill next to the mountain, you can be attacked from at least three directions and two elevations...
HPG: If staying above ground failing to take the centre rise....if going below ground failing to cover all exits...


One thing I'll say about Canyon Network is that if your opposing team has a few LRM boats and ECM cover so you can't just engage in an LRM war the best way to break the stalemate is to flank through a canyon.

Yes, it is risky because if you get ambushed in the low ground by enemies on both sides of the high ground it can get ugly but so would movign across the top under LRM rain.

I've been in some matches on that map where the LRM stalemate lasted so long I was able to travel through the canyons and flank the missile boats in a DIRE WOLF, a mech that is literally slower than a snail. The first time I did it I found myself against 5 unsuspecting mechs that weren't looking in my direction so I was able to get in lots of PPC and Gauss action before they were able to turn their attention to me. Yes, I died but it took them a while to do it and while no one would follow me when they realized what was going on they were able to storm the high ground and not die to LRMs since they were so focused on trying to kill me and we won the match.

#60 HekiDanjo

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 11:57 AM

I didn't see this come up...and I'm kind of amazed.
Not paying attention to an existing firing lane and getting shot in the butt by your own team. At least a couple of times a night you'll have a nice firing line set up on a choke point and you are making the enemy bleed in a nice, orderly, workmanlike way and someone will trundle up with a level of obliviousness where you can almost hear; "HAI GUYZ! WAT'S GOIN ON!?!" and step right into the fire. Even better is the guy who decides that rather than join the firing line he will cower behind it and try to get some shots in...half of which go into his own team.





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