Mizeur, on 27 August 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:
They'd still have to balance the C-LPLs and rebalance the C-ERMLs and C-MPLs. There needs to be some downside for slapping a 50-70+ point alpha with an effective range between 400-700ms on the Timber Wolves. They can get off more than one alpha before having to worry about heat. Even if you twist, that's a fair chunk of armor gone.
We call this severely overtaxing ghost heat.
Of course, PGI needs to stop using ghost heat and lock a 30 to 60 threshold. MW4 had 60 threshold, MW 3 had 30 threshold, MW 2 had 40 threshold, MWO's current highest with double heatsinks thresholds while still carrying 1 ER PPC (both sides) are:
Inner Sphere
Cooling Rate : 6.70 heat/sec
Heat Threshold : 114.89999999999998
Clan
Cooling Rate : 7.50 heat/sec
Heat Threshold : 123.29999999999998
Considering that lore thresholds are 30, and that in MW4, the worst balanced mechwarrior game in the history of the franchise before MWO, only went up to 60... tells us something is horrifically wrong here.
10 DHS and 20 SHS should only take 15 seconds to cool a mech down. That requires a threshold of 30. It will take 30 seconds if that's 10 DHS or 20 SHS on 60 threshold. Either way, that significantly limits how much firepower can go downrange at once and gives us a rapid time to shut down.
30 would be incredibly limiting to the point that pinpoint damage would suddenly disappear from the radar, because you could only get away with 7 ML and you'd not be able to fire again for 12 to 14 seconds unless you did chain fire! One PPC? 33.33% heat! Two ER PPCs and a Gauss, Clan or IS? BAM! Shutdown. Wait, what if you just dropped the Gauss? 2 ER PPCs? BAM! Shutdown. Wait, 2 ER Large Lasers? With the canon heat value, 80% heat.
Would ANY of this b.s. balancing be necessary? Nope. Not at all.
Ghost heat or as the proper term is, heat scale... is nothing more than a "bandaid" that tries to replicate what a 30 threshold would allow. 6 ML? Only because of 30 threshold, it's the maximum safe amount you could fire without serious risks. 2 LL? Welp... 2 LL is 16 heat lore-proper, not bad but it's still above the tabletop shutdown threshold until cooled. 2 ER LL though is in massive suicide territory. LPLs? Technically these are laser machine guns doing many shots to get X damage for X heat in X amount of time... But in MWO's form, welp 2 LPL = 20 heat just like 2 PPCs, regardless of which team you are. And they do less damage in BT than they do in MWO (9 and 10, versus 10.6 and 11.8 in MWO).
2 AC/20s? 14 heat (instead of 12 + ghost heat as in MWO). The irony? With 10 DHS or 20 SHS and 30 threshold, 2 AC/20s will in fact shut down (at the rate of 4 seconds between each use) in 8 seconds if moving while shooting. That's 3 firings of twin AC/20s OR UAC/20s, "ultra mode" or not.
With ghost heat? You shut down in 3 to 4 uses. Sound familiar?
Ghost heat tries to mimic 30 threshold without actually giving us that restriction, and so we have hundreds of loop holes that let us b.s. the system.
(Edit: Just adding since I've been pulled back here with a like).
On the Nova specifically with its massive amount of lasers...
In MWO we can fire 6 of them without ghost heat. With ghost heat before the viscious boost in Ghost Heat, we could alpha strike once and shutdown for a fraction of a second. Now we alpha strike once and bam, it's likely to explode.
With 30 threshold...
Nova Prime before cooling is applied, 1 arm would shut it down. 6 ER ML? 5 heat each. 5 * 6 = shutdown, without even moving. It would be absolutely mandatory to fire it in spurts of 2 to 3 lasers at a time, and even then it's an accident waiting to happen. As its own Sarna page and Card states: "A mech that can't possibly support its loadout."
After cooling is applied. 8 ER ML fired across 10 seconds at 5 heat each - 18 DHS cooling at 3.8 heat per second = 4 heat remaining.
Breakdown:
0 seconds (start). Fire 2 ER ML. + 10 heat (33.33%)
1 second. Cool 3.6. = 6.4
2 seconds. Cool 3.6. = 2.8 (9.33% heat) Fire 2 ER ML +10 heat (2.8 + 10 = 12.8 = 42.67%)
3 seconds. Cools 3.6. = 9.2.
4 seconds. Cools 3.6. = 5.6. Fire 2 ER ML + 10 heat (15.6 = 52% and level 1 shutdown risk and ultra minor risk of ammo explosion in proper BT.)
5 seconds. Cools 3.6 = 12. (40% heat. Safe, but still not safe to actually fire in BT.)
6 seconds. Cools 3.6 = 8.4 (28% heat).
7 seconds. Cools 3.6 = 4.8. Fires 2 ER ML + 10 heat (14.8 = 49.33% heat).
8 seconds. Cools 3.6 = 11.2 (37.33% heat)
9 seconds Cools 3.6 = 7.6 (25.33% heat)
10 seconds. Cools 3.6 = 4 (13.33% heat).
Notice only at one point did we even breach 50% heat, and this is with 30 threshold and technically, with virtually the same cooling as we get in MWO after elites.
(18 DHS tabletop: 3.6/sec cooling, 30 threshold.
DHS in MWO before elites: Cooling Rate : 3.12 heat/sec Heat Threshold : 61.2
DHS in MWO after elites:Cooling Rate : 3.59 heat/sec Heat Threshold : 73.44
(If it had 17 DHS instead of 18, it'd be higher than tabletop cooling).
The principle idea of the Nova was not 'zomg lets boat lasers for one shot kills', it was 'lasers are easily destroyed by a critical hit and some weapons (both Clan and Inner Sphere) can crit 3 weapons in a single blow. Lets have some redundancies just in case so we won't be neutered in a single shot."
(I mean crap, if you seen how frequently I thru-armor-critical players in Megamek, you'd carry a dozen backups as well! Had a one-shot cripple on an Annihilator's gyro with a single Gauss Rifle in a Hollander [35 ton], the Annihilator actually destroyed itself trying to get back up. That just messed it up rather than destroy it. Against a Hunchback, one-shot the AC/20 into destruction with a Gauss Rifle. Had an AC/20 destroy 2 SRM launchers and a medium laser in a single shot [armor was bare]. That's why Novas carry so much; not "derp Alpha! dead. Derp.")
Edited by Koniving, 27 August 2014 - 10:01 PM.