173 replies to this topic

[Budor]

Looks ok when not looking at the LRM part.

Edit: I really dont see why everyone in this thread seems to be butthurt, did you think clan weapons were fine

Edited by Budor, 28 August 2014 - 07:13 AM.

[Billygoat]

I would like for somebody else to have a go at balancing the weapons in this game.

Somebody who might have a little more of the talent, vision and plain old common sense required for the task than the current holder of that position.

Like, maybe a turkey sandwich. Or a cinder block.

[Mister Blastman]

As it stands right now the clan medium laser will have been nerfed harder than EVER BEFORE. Remember when Mechwarrior 3 nerfed the medium laser? It killed it.

Return IS medium lasers to their normal BT values and completely remove ghost heat for them! Like... BAM! No more ghost heat for IS lasers.

That'd be a big start and get us off this stupid merry-go-round.

[Sprouticus]

Im not one to be a proponent of conspiracy theories, but the only thing I can think of for the LRM's is that Paul wants us so excited about the LRM issues that it will deflect from the energy weapons changes (which I think are actually pretty good for the most part)

[EvilCow]

Interesting changes except CLRMs and ERLL, I see no point in those.

We don't need both missile spam and an even weaker IS.

[Kitane]

Let me guess:

CSSRM were probably buffed because their usage stats indicated they were overnerfed too much.

CLRM buffs make no sense at all, especially with IS LRM cooldowns untouched.

Lasers, pretty drastic changes. Large nerfs to Clan laser tech make sense if PGI is going ahead with burst fire changes to IS ballistic weapons.

IS ER LL was caught in the normalization, I guess. The weapon became too similar to CER LL for the beam duration to stay 0.6s shorter.

[Sprouticus]

Mister Blastman, on 28 August 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

As it stands right now the clan medium laser will have been nerfed harder than EVER BEFORE. Remember when Mechwarrior 3 nerfed the medium laser? It killed it.

Return IS medium lasers to their normal BT values and completely remove ghost heat for them! Like... BAM! No more ghost heat for IS lasers.

That'd be a big start and get us off this stupid merry-go-round.

I actually like the cERML change. But yea, the ISML needs a buff. Not sure about a ghost heat change, but returning the ISML to the TT values would be awesome.

[EvilCow]

I find fun that beam duration reduction to 1.6 vs the original 1.5 value.

Remember, you never roll back a bad change, never.

[Viges]

Vassago Rain, on 28 August 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

CERML

• Heat increased to 6.0 from 5.0
  
• Range reduced to 400/800 from 450/900
  
• Duration reduced to 1.25 from 1.3

CERLL

• Damage reduced to 11.0 from 11.25
  
• Heat penalty reduced to 4.0 from 12.0
  
• Heat increased to 10 from 9
  
• Range reduced to 740/1480 from 890/1780
  
• Duration reduced to 1.6 from 2.0

Hahahahaha ahahahaha *facepalm*

[Kitane]

Sprouticus, on 28 August 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

I actually like the cERML change. But yea, the ISML needs a buff. Not sure about a ghost heat change, but returning the ISML to the TT values would be awesome.

I think we can safely forget about 3 heat ML for the foreseeable future...

[Josef Koba]

I understand that these changes are not set in stone, and I frankly applaud them applying these changes to the test server first and foremost rather than foisting them upon the live server. However, I'm seeing a lot of "heat increased/range reduced." Well, except for the whole lot of CLRMs; now they all have a 3.5 second cool down. Heck, the CLRM20's cool down was reduced by a second and a quarter. That seems odd to me. Maybe I'm a moron, but I've never once thought, while firing my CLRM20s, "Gee, I really wish this had the same cool down as a CLRM5." I'm not understanding that change at all. Perhaps one of my peers could explain it; no doubt there's some kind of, uh, reason.

It's interesting to see a buff? to the CERLL, but then again most of us said that a more incremental nerf should have been applied to begin with. The only part of it that made a lot of sense was the reduction in the heat penalty amounts. It was astronomical. Not sure I understand the point of the CERSL nerf. Sure, the small laser boating Nova was pretty potent in knife range, but it had/has serious drawbacks. I used one and I didn't see it being any more effective than anything else, really. Drop on Alpine and have fun not being able to do anything for ten minutes. I enjoy the Nova a great deal for the simple reason that despite its small laser effectiveness, it's an interesting build because it's self-nerfed. In a game that sometimes seem to get less varied and less interesting, the Nova was a unique experience, though perhaps the popularity of that 12 CERSL boat has given them pause.

The CLPL seems to have taken one to the junk most seriously. I mean, thanks for that .1 second decrease in duration, but now the heat is higher, damage is lower, heat penalty raised substantially, and range reduced. Was the CLPL a huge issue? I hadn't notice.

In any case, onward and upward and so on and so forth. The changes/nerfs/etc seem so scatter shot and without reason sometimes. And it's not like they're periodic tweaks. They happen seemingly all the time. Why not just "normalize" everything so that every class of weapons have roughly the same statistics other than crit space and tonnage? Sometimes it seems like that's the way we're going. At least then we wouldn't have to worry about it anymore.

[Viges]

Roland, on 28 August 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

It likely would have made much more sense to UNDO the nerfs to the inner sphere small and medium lasers, rather than REPEAT those nerfs on the clan side.

I actually disagree because Id prefer longer fights (and I drive meds and lights pretty often so no fun to be dead in 2 sec)

[Wrenchfarm]

As soon as Clan weapons are available to the public, they're getting nerfed to the ground. Energy boat Clan mech released? Time to slash all Clan energy values. Astute readers will remember how this was all predicted months ago.

But hey, C.LRMs are better than ever, maybe now is the time to grab that $55 Madcat pack you've been eyeing. I'm sure they won't get nerfed as soon as they're available to the masses too.

Spoiler

STOP FALLING FOR IT

[Roland]

Viges, on 28 August 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

I actually disagree because Id prefer longer fights (and I drive meds and lights pretty often so no fun to be dead in 2 sec)

The small and medium lasers, being generally short and medium range weapons, tend to automatically result in more drawn out fights as they require closing range before they can be fully effective.

The nerfing of such weapons, combined with nerfing SRM's, was one of the reasons why long range PPC's and Gauss became so dominant for so long... because even at close range, the PPC was still pretty much just as effective as the medium lasers (and small lasers were pretty much trash).

Wrenchfarm, on 28 August 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

As soon as Clan weapons are available to the public, they're getting nerfed to the ground.

This was predicted to be the case.

[Tombstoner]

Roland, on 28 August 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

I dont think its just Paul..... but veryone at pauls level on up. I Think he brings a number of options to the tabel and they hash things out at a meetting. Its the entier team sqauir pegging a round hole.

[Onmyoudo]

I knew it wouldn't happen, but I was still hoping we'd make it to the server before this stuff leaked so people could have a go and find this stuff out themselves without specifically looking for it. I mean, the CLRM change would be obvious anyway but going in without any preconceived notions could have been interesting.

[Mcgral18]

Budor, on 28 August 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

Looks ok when not looking at the LRM part.

Edit: I really dont see why everyone in this thread seems to be butthurt, did you think clan weapons were fine

Heat is the most limiting thing in MWO because of the slow as balls dissipation against 3x refire.

They've increased heat multiple times on the small lasers and Med lasers (only once for the ERML, so far). There has never been a heat buff since the days of the Swayback Slunchback. Well over a year, and nearly two, that the SL has been at 200% heat.

cMPL has 150% heat now, for no real reason. ERSL had the range nerf AND a heat nerf. SPL was completely ****** over with both a range nerf AND a heat nerf...why?!


Many of the changes aren't even on problem weapons...they are just strange.

[Wrenchfarm]

Roland, on 28 August 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

This was predicted to be the case.

I hope all the Clan Warriors enjoyed their limited time lease on P2W. They managed to ignore 90% win rates and basic commons sense ("hey, the mech that can load twice as much and survive a lot more is probably WAY better than the other one" "NO ITS NOT, L2SKILL!"), but it's finally time to pay the piper. Madcat and heavier Clan warriors will still get to enjoy LRMs and Goose+PPC builds for awhile longer, but I'm sure as soon as those mechs trickle into the public sphere we'll see heavy nerfs on all of their common builds.

[Kutfroat]

why the IS er-large laser nerf?

[kailii]