332 replies to this topic

[Heffay]

Sprouticus, on 03 September 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

Holy crap, I didnt even see that because the names are so similar.

Yea, totally a routing loop! That is a REALLY poorly designed network.

No, that's actually some cutting edge network management techniques there. What they do is loop the traffic into a circle for a few dozen revolutions so it builds up a TON of network momentum, and then fling the data packet to the next destination a lot faster that way. It's a fact. Our networking team does this all the time!

[KHETTI]

Just came out of a game with 5 separate de-syncs in a row, lag is far far worse, hit detection is also the worst i've seen so far.
The usual PGI treatment then i guess, attempt to fix something by making it worse, gg.

[Warblood]

quick question.. what are you guys using to trace the route?

I live in Montrea Qc, im like a 30min drive from PGIs office here... ive gone from having a 30-50ping to 180-220... id like to figire out why it went up soo much

Edited by Warblood, 03 September 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[ei8ht]

Enileph, on 03 September 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

I am playing in Hong Kong, and since the move HK and Taiwan players have almost unplayable games.
..snip..

That is not true about Taiwan. I am currently located in Taiwan and since the server migration, pings are lower by 30 ~ 50 here. Everything is smoother than before besides the occasional desyncs (which is a separate issue).

[Egomane]

Warblood, on 03 September 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

quick question.. what are you guys using to trace the route?

I live in Montrea Qc, im like a 30min drive from PGIs office here... ive gone from having a 30-50ping to 180-220... id like to figire out why it went up soo much

Just open the commandline and enter "tracert mwomercs.com"

[Warblood]

Egomane, on 03 September 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

Just open the commandline and enter "tracert mwomercs.com"

Ty Ego

Edit:
So this is what i got.

Tracing route to mwomercs.com [192.99.109.192]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 * * * Request timed out.
2 11 ms 9 ms 12 ms 66.212.252.1 <-- Canada(CA) in region North America
3 21 ms 12 ms 15 ms vl152.dr2.kdca.continent8.com [66.212.239.197] <-- Canada(CA) in region North America
4 17 ms 17 ms 21 ms 0.ge-1-2-0.cr2.kdca.continent8.com [66.212.224.173] <-- Canada(CA) in region North America
5 14 ms 11 ms 12 ms 0.xe-0-0-0.cr4.kdca.continent8.com [66.212.224.227] <-- Canada(CA) in region North America
6 11 ms 11 ms 12 ms 0.xe-2-0-1.rt1.mbon.continent8.com [5.62.85.27] <--- Isle of Man(IM) in region Western Europ
7 87 ms 90 ms 89 ms 5.62.85.41 <-- Isle of Man(IM) in region Western Europe
8 89 ms 89 ms 87 ms 0.xe-0-2-0.rt1.lthn.continent8.com [78.24.208.137] <-- Isle of Man(IM) in region Western Europe
9 89 ms * * sw1.tc.lon.ovh.net [195.66.224.220] <-- United Kingdom(UK) in region Western Europe
10 90 ms 93 ms 93 ms rbx-g2-a9.fr.eu [91.121.128.195] <-- France(FR) in region Western Europe
11 101 ms 94 ms 95 ms 37.187.36.133 <-- France(FR) in region Western Europe
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 171 ms 172 ms 264 ms mwomercs.com [192.99.109.192] <-- Canada(CA) in region North America

Trace complete.


So i just looked up all the IP addy's using http://network-tools.com/ and it looks like its bouncing me around the EU before come coming back to canada...


Also this is what i got when i used the "Express" setting on Network-Tools.com

Spoiler

IP address: 192.99.109.192
Host name: mwomercs.com
192.99.109.192 is from Canada(CA) in region North America

TraceRoute from Network-Tools.com to 192.99.109.192 [mwomercs.com] Hop (ms) (ms) (ms) IP Address Host name
1 Timed out Timed out Timed out -
2 38 39 38 4.69.146.21 vl-3506-ve-116.csw3.dallas1.level3.net
3 39 37 39 4.69.151.158 ae-83-83.ebr3.dallas1.level3.net
4 Timed out Timed out Timed out -
5 Timed out Timed out Timed out -
6 Timed out Timed out Timed out -
7 38 38 38 4.69.156.43 ae-2-52.edge3.newark1.level3.net
8 Timed out Timed out 36 178.32.135.18 level3.as3356.nj.us
9 43 43 43 198.27.73.205 bhs-g1-6k.qc.ca
10 43 43 43 198.27.73.231 -
11 42 42 42

192.99.109.192 mwomercs.com
Trace complete
Retrieving DNS records for mwomercs.com...
DNS servers
ns1.mediatemple.net [64.207.128.246]
ns2.mediatemple.net [70.32.65.137]
Answer records
mwomercs.com MX preference: 10
exchange:
mail.mwomercs.com 43200s

mwomercs.com NS ns2.mediatemple.net 43200s
mwomercs.com A 192.99.109.192 43200s
mwomercs.com TXT v=spf1 a mx ip4:216.70.81.116 include:spf.mandrillapp.com include:support.zendesk.com include:smtp.zendesk.com -all 43200s

mwomercs.com NS ns1.mediatemple.net 43200s
mwomercs.com SOA server: ns1.mediatemple.net email: dnsadmin@mediatemple.net serial: 2014083101 refresh: 10800 retry: 3600 expire: 1209600 minimum ttl: 43200 43200s mwomercs.com TXT spf2.0/pra ?all 43200s
Authority records
Additional records mail.mwomercs.com A 216.70.64.186 43200s ns2.mediatemple.net A 70.32.65.137 300s ns1.mediatemple.net A 64.207.128.246 300s

Whois query for mwomercs.com...

Results returned from whois.internic.net:

Whois Server Version 2.0

Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.

Domain Name: MWOMERCS.COM
Registrar: GODADDY.COM, LLC
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
Name Server: NS1.MEDIATEMPLE.NET
Name Server: NS2.MEDIATEMPLE.NET
Status: ok
Updated Date: 03-sep-2014
Creation Date: 14-oct-2011
Expiration Date: 14-oct-2014

Edited by Warblood, 03 September 2014 - 05:41 PM.

[Major Derps]

Draven Darkshadow, on 03 September 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

guys... try reading my post and using that small app to find out which is the best dns server to use

http://mwomercs.com/...07#entry3687707

right now i'm using google's dns service and i'm getting 20% improvement

Tried, made no difference.

Oh well, that was a waste of money. Laters Mechwarriors, have fun; I'm outa here.

Edited by Mokey Mot, 03 September 2014 - 02:41 PM.

[CG Anastasius Focht]

Tracing route to mwomercs.com [192.99.109.192]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms BigPond.BigPond [10.0.0.138]
2 27 ms 25 ms 25 ms 58.162.26.67
3 27 ms 26 ms 27 ms 10.245.38.18
4 28 ms 26 ms 27 ms Bundle-Ether11.chw-edge901.sydney.telstra.net[139.130.190.165]
5 28 ms 28 ms 27 ms bundle-ether13.chw-core10.sydney.telstra.net [203.50.11.98]
6 27 ms 28 ms 30 ms Bundle-ether17.oxf-gw2.sydney.telstra.net [203.50.13.70]
7 28 ms 28 ms 27 ms bundle-ether1.sydo-core01.sydney.reach.com [203.50.13.38]
8 30 ms 28 ms 27 ms i-0-3-2-0.sydo-core02.bi.telstraglobal.net [202.84.220.189]
9 170 ms 171 ms 170 ms i-0-4-0-5.1wlt-core01.bx.telstraglobal.net [202.84.140.102]
10 171 ms 170 ms 169 ms i-0-4-0-3.eqla01.bi.telstraglobal.net [202.40.149.246]
11 170 ms 169 ms 169 ms tisparkle-peer.eqla01.pr.telstraglobal.net [134.159.61.26]
12 169 ms 169 ms 201 ms xe-5-1-0.paloalto2.pao.seabone.net [89.221.35.147]
13 * 181 ms 181 ms pal-5-6k.ca.us [178.32.135.206]
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 244 ms 244 ms 246 ms mtl-1-6k.qc.ca [198.27.73.183]
16 247 ms 248 ms 245 ms bhs-g2-6k.qc.ca [198.27.73.3]
17 246 ms 245 ms 247 ms 198.27.73.233
18 247 ms 245 ms 247 ms mwomercs.com [192.99.109.192]
Trace complete.

[Impyrium]

Mokey Mot, on 03 September 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

Tried, made no difference. Oh well, that was a waste of money. Laters Mechwarriors, have fun; I'm outa here.

I'm rapidly heading towards this. The only thing keeping me here is the fact I've spent a decent amount of cash on the game- but if PGI can't/won't do anything about it, then there's really no reason to stay here.

Fingers still crossed.

[Mal]

Fierostetz, on 03 September 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

I really want FIOS, but it stopped 12 houses down the street from me :facepalm:

Get a longer extension cord

[N0MAD]

AUSwarrior24, on 03 September 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

NOMAD, I'm guessing you're not from Australia, and haven't dealt with the ISPs here. There are very little, if any, decent ISPs in Australia, at least for those of us that don't live in one of the major capitals. Telstra is pretty much all we have. Telstra is not a reasonable ISP- it knows it can get away with a shoddy service because it often provides the only service. It is quite different to what I hear you guys get in America and Europe.

I would not be surprised if Telstra has something borked up regarding this. I also know getting them to do something about it is going to be nigh impossible.

Just to clear this up.
I live in Brisbane, been on the Internet since the late 80s, did some network certs with MS years ago just for my own benefit ( i am not in IT) retired now, my 2 best friends are both IT nerds,one has over 25 years exp in IT and is IT manager of a Huge national company and his specialty is networking. So im lucky my systems, desktops/server/network are looked after by professionals and i myself have a beter than average understanding of computers/networking.
Also i have been a long term customer of telstra (no dont work or have ever worked for telstra) and altho yes they are a bit more expensive than other providers they have served me well over the 20 years, any problems with any of their services are sorted out promptly and to my satisfaction, perhaps being a long term customer has its advantages.
Altho i am a telstra customer i am not being routed thru EU, my route to the US has been and still is thru CA.
MY ping to MWO had always been around 250-270, now its around 300 but desyncs are up, still its no major problem and apart from desyncs very playable (i mean us Aussies live with lag and compared to the old 28k modems these days its civilized).
My kids (2 teenage boys still living at home) and i play numerous games and have had no latency changes in these games only MWO.
Heffay if i wanted to get legal with someone i probably could as my daughter works with the legal department of ATO and no shes not a secretary and specializes in company law..and there is no law against been a brown nose, so youre safe.
Hope that clears things up for you AUS.
To anyone having probs i hope you find a speedy solution to your woes, connection problems to us gamers is a serious and fraustrating problem, good luck all.

[ShinVector]

N0MAD, on 03 September 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Heffay if i wanted to get legal with someone i probably could as my daughter works with the legal department of ATO

For your into PGI has their butts covered with their TOS.
Good luck with Telstra though.

Quote

Finally, please keep in mind Section 8 of the Terms of Use:
Your use of the IGP Offerings depends on the Internet, including networks, cabling, facilities and equipment that is not in our control; accordingly (a) all representations made by us (if any, see below) regarding access performance, speeds, reliability, availability, use or consistency of the IGP Offerings are on a “commercially reasonable efforts” basis, ( we cannot guarantee any minimum level regarding such performance, speed, reliability, availability, use or consistency, and (c) data, messages, information or materials sent over the Internet may not be completely private, and your anonymity is not guaranteed.

[Kilo 40]

N0MAD, on 03 September 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Just to clear this up.
I live in Brisbane, been on the Internet since the late 80s, did some network certs with MS years ago just for my own benefit ( i am not in IT) retired now, my 2 best friends are both IT nerds,one has over 25 years exp in IT and is IT manager of a Huge national company and his specialty is networking. So im lucky my systems, desktops/server/network are looked after by professionals and i myself have a beter than average understanding of computers/networking.
Also i have been a long term customer of telstra (no dont work or have ever worked for telstra) and altho yes they are a bit more expensive than other providers they have served me well over the 20 years, any problems with any of their services are sorted out promptly and to my satisfaction, perhaps being a long term customer has its advantages.
Altho i am a telstra customer i am not being routed thru EU, my route to the US has been and still is thru CA.
MY ping to MWO had always been around 250-270, now its around 300 but desyncs are up, still its no major problem and apart from desyncs very playable (i mean us Aussies live with lag and compared to the old 28k modems these days its civilized).
My kids (2 teenage boys still living at home) and i play numerous games and have had no latency changes in these games only MWO.
Heffay if i wanted to get legal with someone i probably could as my daughter works with the legal department of ATO and no shes not a secretary and specializes in company law..and there is no law against been a brown nose, so youre safe.
Hope that clears things up for you AUS.
To anyone having probs i hope you find a speedy solution to your woes, connection problems to us gamers is a serious and fraustrating problem, good luck all.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

AUSwarrior24, on 03 September 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

I'm rapidly heading towards this. The only thing keeping me here is the fact I've spent a decent amount of cash on the game- but if PGI can't/won't do anything about it, then there's really no reason to stay here.

Fingers still crossed.

Have you raised the issue with your ISP?

[Gattsus]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 02 September 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

Please note that this issue is distinct from the general desync issue which is being addressed by engineering, as well as distinct from seperate DNS issues which are being actively resolved which had been preventing connectivity for players in certain regions (namely Texas and France, as well as a handful of others)

Don't forget me! I'm in Hong Kong and soon moving to Singapore... and I am also affected by the increase in latency/ping.

[N0MAD]

Still trying to figure this out, so if a couple of you guys being routed thru EU could try help out here..
I have two sites for you to do a trace on if you could, they are both web hosting sites in Montreal..
Google them if you like to see what you are tracing.
1. Astralinternet.com in Montreal, IP. 198.72.103.155
2. Hostutopia.com in Montreal, IP. 108.163.188.198
Really need the guys being routed thru EU to pls do a trace on these and let us know if these sites are also routed thru EU.
I did a trace on these and was routed as usual (for me) thru Ca/Chicago then Montreal.
Thanks.

[Primetimex]

PGI - Niko why do you put the problem squarely on AU ISP? It does not make sense - if people had a certain ping to begin with it should remain that way and actually SHOULD improve after your so-called data center upgrade.

I guess what you meant to say was or should be"

"After our data-center switch and migration - certain players in non-NA region may experience higher latencies/pings (due to the fact of the location of our new data center) and certain network problems will remain".

Basic troubleshooting - if NOTHING has changed on the players' end why the heck do you keep blaming the problems on their end? It doesn't make ANY sense - the only thing that has changed AND needs fixing is your reject-shop quality data-center!

Getting players to do the run-around rigmarole to their ISP does not make sense. If player A has 276 ping before the data-center change it should remain so afterwards NOT worse (note nothing has changed on players end).

Getting sick and tired of the line "go get a better Internet connection player".

I call on all non-NA Mechwarriors to say "go get some whales elsewhere PGI for your next games and next money sales in MW:0".

Thanks!

Edited by GetterRobo, 04 September 2014 - 01:34 AM.

[1DeathWalkingTerror1]

As of PGI sever shift 2 weeks ago approx, I'm 100ms ping higher, I get disconnects which I never ever got before, massive lag, rubber banding. The massive lag and disconnects now happen every 3-4 matches which is now making MWO quite unplayable.

I'm with Telstra in Australia whom I've had a pretty good run with, none of my other online games have these issues.

Please PGI help us here downunder, your game is getting unplayable, I'm gutted I just dropped another $120.00 on this game.

[Impyrium]

N0MAD, on 04 September 2014 - 01:23 AM, said:

Still trying to figure this out, so if a couple of you guys being routed thru EU could try help out here..
I have two sites for you to do a trace on if you could, they are both web hosting sites in Montreal..
Google them if you like to see what you are tracing.
1. Astralinternet.com in Montreal, IP. 198.72.103.155
2. Hostutopia.com in Montreal, IP. 108.163.188.198
Really need the guys being routed thru EU to pls do a trace on these and let us know if these sites are also routed thru EU.
I did a trace on these and was routed as usual (for me) thru Ca/Chicago then Montreal.
Thanks.

Okay, may as well.

Tracing route to astralinternet.com [198.72.103.155]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  1	 1 ms	 2 ms	 2 ms  192.168.0.1
  2	48 ms	45 ms	42 ms  250.2.2.123.network.m2core.net.au [123.2.2.250]
  3	44 ms	45 ms	71 ms  be2-v417.bsr02.melbpri.vic.m2core.net.au [123.2.
2.65]
  4	56 ms	47 ms	59 ms  bundle-ether11.win24.melbourne.telstra.net [165.
228.21.137]
  5	68 ms	69 ms	54 ms  bundle-ether6.win-core1.melbourne.telstra.net [2
03.50.11.58]
  6	55 ms	57 ms	58 ms  bundle-ether12.ken-core10.sydney.telstra.net [20
3.50.11.122]
  7	59 ms	78 ms	67 ms  Bundle-ether18.pad-gw2.sydney.telstra.net [203.5
0.13.82]
  8	82 ms	70 ms	67 ms  bundle-ether1.sydp-core01.sydney.reach.com [203.
50.13.46]
  9   203 ms   191 ms   194 ms  i-0-1-1-3.istt-core02.bx.telstraglobal.net [202.
84.140.82]
10   220 ms   191 ms   207 ms  i-0-4-0-0.paix02.bi.telstraglobal.net [202.84.25
1.58]
11   222 ms   222 ms   216 ms  te0-0-0-3.ccr21.sjc04.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
.11.157]
12   220 ms   228 ms   243 ms  be2015.ccr21.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.7.
173]
13   245 ms   257 ms   245 ms  be2132.ccr21.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.30
.54]
14	 *	  354 ms   302 ms  be2156.ccr41.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.6.
86]
15   291 ms   295 ms   268 ms  be2079.ccr21.yyz02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.27
.182]
16   301 ms   281 ms   284 ms  be2090.ccr21.ymq02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.30
.206]
17   393 ms   364 ms   351 ms  te8-4.cl-core06.cogent.mtl.iweb.com [38.104.154.
202]
18   405 ms   375 ms   434 ms  ae1.cr7.mtl.iweb.com [184.107.1.210]
19   392 ms   427 ms   392 ms  po22.cr3.mtl.iweb.com [184.107.1.2]
20   357 ms   373 ms   351 ms  te9-3.dr4.mtl.iweb.com [67.205.127.85]
21   364 ms   374 ms   350 ms  www.astralinternet.com [198.72.103.155]
Trace complete.

 
Tracing route to hostutopia.com [108.163.188.198]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  1	 1 ms	 1 ms	 1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2	41 ms	43 ms	44 ms  250.2.2.123.network.m2core.net.au [123.2.2.250]
  3	71 ms	56 ms	61 ms  be2-v417.bsr02.melbpri.vic.m2core.net.au [123.2.
2.65]
  4	52 ms	47 ms	71 ms  bundle-ether11.win24.melbourne.telstra.net [165.
228.21.137]
  5	56 ms	54 ms	45 ms  bundle-ether6.win-core1.melbourne.telstra.net [2
03.50.11.58]
  6	64 ms	87 ms	70 ms  bundle-ether12.ken-core10.sydney.telstra.net [20
3.50.11.122]
  7	69 ms	60 ms	64 ms  Bundle-ether18.pad-gw2.sydney.telstra.net [203.5
0.13.82]
  8	63 ms	55 ms	56 ms  bundle-ether1.sydp-core01.sydney.reach.com [203.
50.13.46]
  9   201 ms   215 ms   203 ms  i-0-3-0-6.paix-core01.bx.telstraglobal.net [202.
84.140.194]
10   199 ms   199 ms   202 ms  i-0-5-0-2.paix02.bi.telstraglobal.net [202.40.14
9.114]
11   214 ms   209 ms   235 ms  te0-0-0-3.ccr21.sjc04.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
.11.157]
12   254 ms   229 ms   226 ms  be2015.ccr21.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.7.
173]
13   264 ms   246 ms   284 ms  be2132.ccr21.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.30
.54]
14   288 ms   259 ms   281 ms  be2156.ccr41.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.6.
86]
15   284 ms   274 ms   290 ms  be2079.ccr21.yyz02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.27
.182]
16   283 ms   280 ms   332 ms  be2090.ccr21.ymq02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.30
.206]
17   355 ms   371 ms   360 ms  38.122.42.122
18   402 ms   398 ms   399 ms  po21.dr13.mtl.iweb.com [184.107.1.246]
19   374 ms   398 ms   366 ms  hostutopia.com [108.163.188.198]
Trace complete.

[Nayonac]

So we have 2 problems here
1) De-syncs for everyone
2) Higher ping's for some people / lower ping's for other people...

So looking at problem 2)
They have moved Datacentre, the servers are not in the same physical location now and thus your traffic is now going to different locations, which means your internet traffic is now going a different route.

So for those that don't understand why you have a higher or a lower ping lets say you have a job.
That takes you 30 minute to get to, suddenly the Job that takes 30 minutes to get to relocates to the location 60 minutes away, so now you have to travel 60 minutes instead of 30, sure you might be able to change your route to work and optimize your journey but it will not be the same one you had before. So what we are saying is that your traffic is not going via the same route as it used to and thus change has occurred.

You can perform a trace route and see this change(if you knew the route before), however your traffic is governed internally by your ISP on its own network, once this traffic leaves the network onto another network, that traffic is governed by the rules of the next ISP (normally done via a weighting system of preferences on peers) so your ISP will have no say over where it goes from there. The same goes for PGI, whoever they buy bandwidth from will have a choice of which way the traffic leaves there network (which might mean your traffic back comes along a different route to the one it went on) once it has left they have no power over what happens to it once it has left there network.
So your never going to get a nice low ping unless your ISP has a direct peer to the network PGI are hosted on.
So your choices are change ISP and hope they go via a better route or ask your current one if they and shift there route preferences so traffic takes a different route (probably never happen unless they see a cost benefit), or move closer to the Datacentre... PGI depending if they just buy bandwidth or run there own routers could buy in alternate sources or get free peers to other ISP's which may preference your route better (again affected by the out bound route of your ISP and luck of the draw on which way your traffic gets routed in the middle)
Maybe a VPN if you can find the right one

So point 1)
The de-syncs, regardless of if you have a 10 ping or a 400 ping we are seeing De-syncs across the board, being in Europe i don't get many until the US time zone kicks in which would lead me to believe that the servers are struggling with calculations, bad net code or just hardware which is not powerful enough (combination of both)
So what i do know on this is that PGI need steps to recreate the issue, and until they can see it in action they wont be able to fix it. They could add logging into the code (this will require more resource and probably make it worse and even cause other issues) getting good logging is probably the best way to fix these issues, finding out what is causing the de-sync, Is it a calculation that's taking to long to run and thus your client is hanging because it has no response from the server ?

You can move about because that's local client and not server based, so once your client reconnects (aka re-syncs) you are no where near where you thought you were thus the rubber band effect, or warping because the server's last command was you walking at full speed in 1 direction and had no other input so now it thinks you should be 5 grids away.
The problem could be Database access in the back end system, it can't make calculations because the data is being written to a DB which has access problems or even deadlocking. Having never looked at how the cry engine works i couldn't really say

Edited by Nayonac, 04 September 2014 - 03:33 AM.