140 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

if Is it PGI's Fault, well I cant really determine that. You have to look at the behavior of the MM. Like i said before and I stress. If it cant find what i needs it will just grab anything to make the match possible. At the end of the day, the MM's job is to find matches to start a game.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 03 September 2014 - 04:29 PM.

[Sandpit]

Willard Phule, on 03 September 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

Normally, I hate you and everyone that looks like you, but on this we agree.

Granted, I'm a solo queue only guy...I don't know what it's like in the Group Queue. I only hope it's half as bad.

It's all good. One thing that makes me smile, even a little, is that I still clear over 175k per match...win or lose. I can tell if my mouthbreathing team is going to make a Derp of it and go headhunter. Oh well. I'm good enough to still get 2 or 3 kills and at least 6 assists (assuming we actually kill 6). Thank god they got rid of the arty/air strike thing...I make more money with a well placed UAV now.

The group queue isn't nearly as bad in this regard due to group dynamics in general. Groups are generally more inclined to use some teamwork and tactics to win instead of "me shoot everything!"

I have a screenshot somewhere that sums up the solo queue nicely of a player saying "Teamplay is dumb", you get more that type of mentality in the solo queue than you do in the group queue.

The fact that you can do that in the solo queue and still lose is also part of the problem. I'm not saying you dont' deserve your rewards because you earned them by getting the kills and assists but you get more players less inclined to win the match because there's really no reason to. You "win" even when you lose. You can easily make 100k+ per match even if you lose every single game. What's the incentive to even care about winning?

[SVK Puskin]

I am not a fan of games with matchmaking system and unfortunately MWO is one of them. I would like to have dedicated servers but i am afraid that this will never happen!

[Willard Phule]

BLOOD WOLF, on 03 September 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

I only refer to the MM as being complex for MWO because it takes into account more things than just ELO.

Ok, I agree with you.

Let's hang whoever's responsible. It can't be PGI, they're perfect. Not a flaw in the entire company.

Let's hunt down whoever it was that designed this completely borked Elo system and added it to the matchmaker. Sandpit will help us.

Where do we start? Facebook? Was it some ******** facebook troll that did it? It must be.

Do you see what I'm getting at here. PGI coded this ******** thing. PGI made this all happen. You happen to pop into the solo queue for a few minutes, get rolled, and see that there "might" be a problem.

Take it from those of us that live there that it IS an issue. Stop playing with your friends for a week. A WEEK. And no sync drops, either. Go solo for 7 whole days....then come talk to me.

I don't care if you have a poster of Paul and Russ hanging over your bed or whether you touch yourself at night moaning "PGI..PGI...PGI." It's damn near unplayable for those of us in the solo queue.

The whole matchmaker thing is indicative of every single problem with this game. PGI refuses...REFUSES...to ever seek a simple solution for anything. If they're going to do anything, its got to be overcomplicated and in such a fashion that it's literally impossible to code correctly on the first go.

Oh oh...wait..."if you can do it better, tell them how to do it"..that's one of my favorites. A ) They won't listen to anyone, ever. B ) Not my forte. Want me to teach you how to hit a moving target at 800m with a .308 rifle? I can do that. Want me to teach you how to place a cutting charge on a bridge strut? I can do that, too. I spent my life learning how to take away the enemy's ability to wage war...I didn't learn how to code games. Probably for the best, I'm good at what I do. PGI isn't. Think about that for a while. Perhaps they should have went into the hospitality or food service industries instead.

[BLOOD WOLF]

ENS Puskin, on 03 September 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

I am not a fan of games with matchmaking system and unfortunately MWO is one of them. I would like to have dedicated servers but i am afraid that this will never happen!

their is a problem with dedicated servers.

[Sandpit]

Willard Phule, on 03 September 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

I don't care if you have a poster of Paul and Russ hanging over your bed or whether you touch yourself at night moaning "PGI..PGI...PGI." It's damn near unplayable for those of us in the solo queue.

bwahahaha

ENS Puskin, on 03 September 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

I am not a fan of games with matchmaking system and unfortunately MWO is one of them. I would like to have dedicated servers but i am afraid that this will never happen!

you won't, that would require many things well beyond PGi's abilities

[BLOOD WOLF]

Sandpit, on 03 September 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

bwahahaha


you won't, that would require many things well beyond PGi's abilities

They can if they wanted but that would still create more problems that it would solve.

Willard Phule, on 03 September 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

Do you see what I'm getting at here. PGI coded this ******** thing. PGI made this all happen. You happen to pop into the solo queue for a few minutes, get rolled, and see that there "might" be a problem.


I don't care if you have a poster of Paul and Russ hanging over your bed or whether you touch yourself at night moaning "PGI..PGI...PGI." It's damn near unplayable for those of us in the solo queue.

The whole matchmaker thing is indicative of every single problem with this game. PGI refuses...REFUSES...to ever seek a simple solution for anything. If they're going to do anything, its got to be overcomplicated and in such a fashion that it's literally impossible to code correctly on the first go.

if the put in another system or removed ELO, we would still come to the same level of problems.

[SVK Puskin]

BLOOD WOLF, on 03 September 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

their is a problem with dedicated servers.

Ofcourse also dedicated servers have problems, perfect system does not exist but i have better online experience with dedicated server that matchmaking system!

Edited by ENS Puskin, 03 September 2014 - 05:05 PM.

[SVK Puskin]

Sandpit, on 03 September 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

you won't, that would require many things well beyond PGi's abilities

In terms of money? Dedicated servers are much cheaper than settings servers all over the world.

[Sandpit]

ENS Puskin, on 03 September 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

In terms of money? Dedicated servers are much cheaper than settings servers all over the world.

In terms of
money
hardware
care
want
etc.
They have no need to change their current system.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Sandpit, on 03 September 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

In terms of
money
hardware
care
want
etc.
They have no need to change their current system.

Do they need to change it, that is the question. If they do what can they use? They can use other things besides ELO but you will always come up with the same problems. At least that is what I have seen.

[SVK Puskin]

Sandpit, on 03 September 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

In terms of
money
hardware
care
want
etc.
They have no need to change their current system.

Hardware? What hardware? In dedicated server hardware is up to user(player) not developer. No need? Really? They tuning the matchmaking system a long time and why? Becuase it sucks and it will never be as it should which means it will never be balanced. Dedicated servers are much better!

[Sandpit]

ENS Puskin, on 03 September 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

Hardware? What hardware? In dedicated server hardware is up to user(player) not developer. No need? Really? They tuning the matchmaking system a long time and why? Becuase it sucks and it will never be as it should which means it will never be balanced. Dedicated servers are much better!

for one, the game is authenticated server side.

[BLOOD WOLF]

ENS Puskin, on 03 September 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

Dedicated servers are much better!

SC2 had player lobbies and MM. Lobbies have their uses I suppose

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 03 September 2014 - 05:26 PM.

[SVK Puskin]

Sandpit, on 03 September 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

for one, the game is authenticated server side.

Sorry i do not understand.

BLOOD WOLF, on 03 September 2014 - 05:24 PM, said:

SC2 had player lobbies and MM. Lobbies have their uses I suppose

SC2?

[BLOOD WOLF]

Starcraft 2. I played rigorously when My bro let me use an account.

I was also a competitive TW player.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 03 September 2014 - 05:33 PM.

[White Bear 84]

My W/L and KDR are both going down since the last patch.. ..same reported from other players. I'm sure we are all just getting worse at the game & this has nothing to do with irregular and unbalanced drops. It never has right... ....riiiiight..

[StandingInFire]

Kubernetes, on 03 September 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Who are you going to believe, PGI or your own in-game experiences? Screenshots? Bwahahahaha!

Here's what I've experienced: drop into HPG, notice that two of my teammates are recognizable names from the Worthy Adversaries leaderboards. Oh good, I think. Game's going okay. I get a kill. I die. I spectate between the two Very Very Good players. It's a treat. Damn, they die. All we have left is an Atlas RS(C).

Oh damn, this guy is in a trial mech. And he's running into walls. And he's not even locking targets for his LRMs, just dead-firing. And his Gauss ammo is still at max--- He Doesn't Know How To Charge His Gauss. And he's shooting his MLs at enemies 600m away.

Where do you think that dude's ELO stands? Is he anywhere close to a top level player? Or even myself, who is probably above-average, with 1000s of drops under my belt (Hey, I just achieved Rich as Blake)?

Many things can explain that case other then it not using variance:
1) He was desynced, been happening to enough people and can explain him seeing completely different things from other people such as range for ml, wall locations etc.
2) A myriad of other bugs.
3) He had a win streak before with a different assault/weapon systems tried the Atlas and completely failed at it as Assaults all share an elo (look elo problem 2 below).

As for my own personal experience the only time I see truly new players is after I have to do a challenge with mechs I don't play (such as trials) and knowingly have tanked my elo. So yes on this I trust PGI on using variance.

The problem lies in the elo implementation as other have mentioned some issues, how they are using elo is fully explained here (http://mwomercs.com/...79-matchmaking/). Their calculation has 4 big problems that I can tell:
1a) Elo change when prediction loss is accurate is minimal, when you loose and are expected to loose your elo doesn't drop much, this results in new players and bad players easily having their elo inflated.
1b) Elo change when predicted win is accurate is minimal, when you win and you are expected to win your elo doesn't increase much this results in good players taking a long time to climb away from bad players.
2) No Elo clamping (LoL does this), so win/loss streaks can catapult people up and down elo rather quickly, i.e. a method that prevents your elo from changing very quickly over a short time such as only allow a max 5% elo change over 5 games. (as it is now it can easily land very high skilled players on a loss streak with low skilled players on a win streak)
3) Solo and Group Elo is the same, it shouldn't be.
4) Entire weight class has same elo, weight class should have a shared "base/average" elo (to prevent elo resetting with new chassis and landing good players with new players) for a player and each chassis type having a modifier so for example some one gets an Atlas to 2000 elo, then gets a Direwolf (starts at 2000) this he gets to 2300 elo (base Assault elo is now 2150), then gets a Awesome but that drops to 1700 elo (Assault elo is now back to 2000) but each chassis can play at the appropriate level so if he jumps back into the Direwolf he is not fighting at the 1700 range.

Edited by StandingInFire, 03 September 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

White Bear 84, on 03 September 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

My W/L and KDR are both going down since the last patch.. ..same reported from other players. I'm sure we are all just getting worse at the game & this has nothing to do with irregular and unbalanced drops. It never has right... ....riiiiight..

My win/loss has pretty much stayed the same if not growing. As I am now winning more matches then I am losing. My Kills at death ration is 0.95

[SVK Puskin]

BLOOD WOLF, on 03 September 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

Starcraft 2. I played rigorously when My bro let me use an account.

I was also a competitive TW player.

TW? Oh man come one do not be lazzy to write full name. Well, i have never played Starcraft series.