42 replies to this topic

[UrsusMorologus]

Hi guys, new MWO player here, having a lot of fun so far. I have MW4 and the expansions somewhere, also played something back in the 90s (geezer gamer) but I don't remember details. I didnt get involved in the modding, dont have all the books or a starchart on the wall or anything like that, but I'm not coming in blind. I really like the MW game mechanics, risk/reward loadouts, heat management, arm vs torso mobility, etc., one of the most comprehensive combat models around. I really wish some other games would steal it.

Anyhoo, I have some points and it looks like I can get out of Trials and into my own chassis if I wanted but I'm a little unsure about some things. I would like something with a couple of large lasers and an LRM coupled with a couple of mediums and an AC 20, so I can switch between ranged and close combat. I guess thats an assault? I should probably start with something lighter. IIRC the classes have to focus on their role really closely, except assault mechs can run multiple roles at once. Is that wrong? Is it just the cheap/free mechs that are too weak?

How is the overall balance here? Any classes really bad or UP/OP to the point of exclusion? Is it P2W?

Are the chassis that can be bought with in-game currency any good? When I open the in-game store it looks like all of them are available for MC but only some are in-game currency (excluding hero mechs which I understand are premium). Is it P2P?

What is the point of clans and houses here? Right now it seems like this is just TDM with random scrambles. Is the game going to become more strategic with territory control or something? Will this affect the mechs I choose? Should I save some bays?

Probably have a lot more questions as I get further in. Thanks for any help getting me going.

[Spheroid]

Assaults are not cheap and not noob friendly. If you want a mixed range build you can always do that on a medium with SRMs in place of an AC-20.

Edited by Spheroid, 02 September 2014 - 02:27 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

There is no real pay to win, since very little content is limited to money-only, and the few things that are are not pay to win. Hero mechs are the only mechs that you can't buy with only free currency (Champion mechs cost money and have a special bonis to XP gain,but every champion is a normal mech variant you can other wise replicate) and hero mechs are widely regarded as fair (or in many cases sub-par). Generally in MWO, money only gets you the same content faster, so it can't be "pay to win".

Classes and builds are a different story, although the class balance is not bad. It's important to play to a mech's strengths, a light mech won't be able to do the same job as a Heavy. Assaults have more guns but are slow and large. Mediums tend to get the short end of the stick but are generally pretty affordable.

Not all builds are created equal, although weapons are buffed/nerfed often and new mechs come out monthly so what builds are the top one month may change the next.

Back to chassis with in-game currency: you can buy every chassis with in-game currency (c-bills), with the exception of some clan chassis that are not yet released for C-bills but will be released over the next few months (so even the mighty timberwolf, currently only available in a cash-only bundle, will be out for regular c-bills eventually).

Hero mechs, they get custom hardpoints, custom paint, and a c-bill boost. Generally they are equal to or worse than their regular c-bill variants, although many will treat the Ilya Muromets and Dragon Slayer as superior (but not by that much)

Clans and Houses don't do anything yet, although making your own unit lets you have a little abbreviated tag in the player list in a match. Clans and Houses will be a factor in upcoming Community Warfare aspects of the game. There will be territory control, fortifying planets, mercs bidding on contracts, etc. There has been conflicting statements made over the past three years about what CW will be, but we do have a map now at least

Edited by Redshift2k5, 02 September 2014 - 02:59 PM.

[n r g]

UrsusMorologus, on 02 September 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

Hi guys, new MWO player here, having a lot of fun so far. I have MW4 and the expansions somewhere, also played something back in the 90s (geezer gamer) but I don't remember details. I didnt get involved in the modding, dont have all the books or a starchart on the wall or anything like that, but I'm not coming in blind. I really like the MW game mechanics, risk/reward loadouts, heat management, arm vs torso mobility, etc., one of the most comprehensive combat models around. I really wish some other games would steal it.

Anyhoo, I have some points and it looks like I can get out of Trials and into my own chassis if I wanted but I'm a little unsure about some things. I would like something with a couple of large lasers and an LRM coupled with a couple of mediums and an AC 20, so I can switch between ranged and close combat. I guess thats an assault? I should probably start with something lighter. IIRC the classes have to focus on their role really closely, except assault mechs can run multiple roles at once. Is that wrong? Is it just the cheap/free mechs that are too weak?

How is the overall balance here? Any classes really bad or UP/OP to the point of exclusion? Is it P2W?

Are the chassis that can be bought with in-game currency any good? When I open the in-game store it looks like all of them are available for MC but only some are in-game currency (excluding hero mechs which I understand are premium). Is it P2P?

What is the point of clans and houses here? Right now it seems like this is just TDM with random scrambles. Is the game going to become more strategic with territory control or something? Will this affect the mechs I choose? Should I save some bays?

Probably have a lot more questions as I get further in. Thanks for any help getting me going.

I think you should be weary of mixing loadouts. That's one of the #1 mistake newer players make in MWO in my opinion, apart from many other things they do wrong.

Generally the most efficient mechs are the ones geared for one-type of combat. Wasting tonnage on a LRM boat, with some machine guns or such, will render those weapons useless at range and vice versa.

This is why you obviously see specific roles in competitive play, since it's most efficient. You will have <300m brawling mechs, 600+ sniping mechs, LRM boats....

..I get the idea is appealing to have " cool" mech build with machine guns, pulse lasers, PPCs and SRMS all mixed into one , but it's just not competitive nor efficient.

What do you like to pilot? Do you like to be fast and light weaponed, or really slow but with massive firepower?

Or would you rather something in the middle?

Then, my second question, beside the initial mech chassis question, is do you like to use weaponry at close ranges, <300m or do you like to be far out and use your accurate aim to devastate your opponent?

Edited by E N E R G Y, 02 September 2014 - 03:04 PM.

[Koniving]

Welcome to MWO. I've numbered your questions.

UrsusMorologus, on 02 September 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

1) I guess thats an assault?
2) IIRC the classes have to focus on their role really closely, except assault mechs can run multiple roles at once. Is that wrong?
3) Is it just the cheap/free mechs that are too weak?

1) Medium through assault.
2) Truth be told roles don't mean as much as they should. Provided you are 35 tons or 45 tons and higher to the obvious exclusion of 40 tons, you can choose any role you want and play to your heart's content... provided you have the hardpoints available for the role you wanted. If anything assaults are kind of limited on roles mainly due to speed limitations.
3) It's mechs under 35 tons that are too easy to kill and SL and ML weapons that are just too hot which really hurt them.

Quote

4) How is the overall balance here?
5) Any classes really bad or UP/OP to the point of exclusion?
6) Is it P2W?
7) Are the chassis that can be bought with in-game currency any good?
8) When I open the in-game store it looks like all of them are available for MC but only some are in-game currency (excluding hero mechs which I understand are premium).
9) Is it P2P?

4) Balance is pretty shifty but all weapons are available for Cbills.
5) Right now if you're below 30 tons you're going to be rather miserable. Beyond that certain mechs have 'issues'. Without some experience you should probably avoid the following mechs: Dragons, Awesomes, Cicadas, and anything lighter than 30 tons.
6) No. Truth be told it might actually be more accurate to say 'pay to lose', the typical MC only mech is either identical and just pre-upgraded for cash and a slight experience bonus (becomes useless pretty quick) or a unique variant that's like combining traits of two variants into one box. This typically comes with some quirks or nerfs, depending on how good or bad the end result is.
7) Most of the best ones are Cbills and all standard mechs can be bought with Cbills. Those not yet available will be across the next 2 months.
8) You can use MC to buy them without having to earn the cbills or to save on them. But instead of the store (which is incomplete and barely functional), try using the mechlab instead.

Click on Mechlab. Filter. Change "Owned" to "Purchasable" and do your window shopping that way.

9) Heavens no. It's pay to lose.

Quote

10) What is the point of clans and houses here? Right now it seems like this is just TDM with random scrambles.

10) Factions. It is at this moment.

Quote

11) Is the game going to become more strategic with territory control or something?
12) Will this affect the mechs I choose?
13) Should I save some bays?

11) Yes. Youtube "MWO Community Warfare." Edit: To add to this, click "Faction" in MWO for the map. Zoom in, quite a few planets and a number of hidden ones.
12) Yes and no. If repair and rearm ever returns then yes. Since that is unlikely no matter how many of us crave it, then it probably won't affect you until you go to purchase a mech after it arrives. Having X territory with X factory of X mech will make X mech cheaper. Not having it will make X mech harder to get and thus more expensive on the black market.
13) No. You should however get some more as soon as you can.

You're welcome.

Edited by Koniving, 02 September 2014 - 03:54 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

Quote

large lasers and an LRM coupled with a couple of mediums and an AC 20

That would be a lot of gun even for an Assault mech, and a small LRM while the rest of the mech is focused on direct damage probably isn't the best approach. AC20s are serious business and not something you can add as an afterthought because of high weight and large number of slots.

Assaults themselves d not make for the best first mech, since the tend to be slow and unforgiving of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, which is hard when you haven't memorized the maps and every little path or bump. you also need 3 variants of one chassis in order to progress your skill tree, and 3 assault mechs aren't cheap.

Mechs are not limited by role or class, but by weapon type.

Which trial mechs did you enjoy? Which did you feel you were best at?

Mediums & heavies tend to be the best place to start, although exactly which will depend on what kind of weapons you want to bring or just personal preference.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 03 September 2014 - 06:05 AM.

[Spike Brave]

Welcome.I do agree with the other posters in that you may have difficulty if you jump straight into an assault. I'd like to answer your build question. The build you describe, large lasers, LRMs, medium lasers, and an AC 20, could be done with an Atlas. Again, the other posters are correct in that assaults require some practice and even then can be very difficult to play. If you run a build like this your Atlas will be slow and because of the threat it presents, it will draw a lot of enemy fire.

Enjoy the game. If you have more questions, just post and we'll help you out.

Edited by Spike Brave, 02 September 2014 - 05:16 PM.

[UrsusMorologus]

I actually meant AC-10 dunno why I wrote AC-20. What I'm looking for is flexibility that can fight all the way up to the capture point. Some long-rage weapons for softening the rear-field defenses, and enough short/medium range weapons to engage targets along the way and once I get all the way there. Combinging large and medium lasers into different groups is something I used to do in the sp campaign, can combine them with kinetics for focus damage and tap them all manually when needed without overheating all the time.

I have been using the Cataphract the most lately and it is really close to that config already with good speed plus jumping. It is missing the LRM though. Have used some others but most of the Trial configs are more narrow.

I dont really have a feel for range/distance yet, should probably try to study that more first.

I agree that I should not jump straight into the Assault class, like I said in the OP I need something lighter first.

Thanks for the information so far, very helpful

Edited by UrsusMorologus, 02 September 2014 - 05:37 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

UrsusMorologus, on 02 September 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

I actually meant AC-10 dunno why I wrote AC-20. What I'm looking for is flexibility that can fight all the way up to the capture point. Some long-rage weapons for softening the rear-field defenses, and enough short/medium range weapons to engage targets along the way and once I get all the way there. Combinging large and medium lasers into different groups is something I used to do in the sp campaign, can combine them with kinetics for focus damage and tap them all manually when needed without overheating all the time.

I have been using the Cataphract the most lately and it is really close to that config already with good speed plus jumping. It is missing the LRM though. Have used some others but most of the Trial configs are more narrow.

I dont really have a feel for range/distance yet, should probably try to study that more first.

I agree that I should not jump straight into the Assault class, like I said in the OP I need something lighter first.

Thanks for the information so far, very helpful

Sounds like an Orion would be right up your alley.

Heavies are very flexible mechs, and you can modify them to fit multiple roles. Their stock STD 300 engine is actually one of the better ones to be used for them.

My advice is not for competitive play, since that is restricted to practically 2 mechs.

ON1-K

PROTECTOR

Those two builds are designed to be pure short range brawlers.

However, you can easily slap a PPC in there, drop the AC 20 to an AC 10, etc.

Use the Smurfy website to experiment with mechs and their designs. The stats and numbers are all up to date, and it won't cost you any C-Bills or MC to see what your mech would look like. It also calculates the expected cost for the mech. Allowing you to figure out how much you actually need before you buy it, and field it (stock loadouts are bad. Pretty much all the time).

[Phobic Wraith]

Well, That's a tall order. Few 'mechs do the "Jack-of-all-trades" thing well, and I would argue that there's NO 'mech that does it well enough.

That being said, the Thunderbolt might be a pretty close fit. Not my ride at all. I picked up one of them during an event and I've found that I pretty well detest it... I wanted to like it so badly too...

MW:O tends to favor specialization and boating of a particular weapon. There are some good reasons for that, and from a gameplay perspective It makes sense. This whole thing is designed to make YOU as a player rely on other players that are specializing in what you have not.

As far as recommendations go, that Cataphract you're piloting is a great chassis. I would also look at an Orion as another possible does it all 'mech.

If I may be so bold, I think you'd enjoy a few other chassis more... Maybe a Jagermech, Catapult, Shadowhawk, just to name a few

[HlynkaCG]

UrsusMorologus, on 02 September 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

I actually meant AC-10 dunno why I wrote AC-20. What I'm looking for is flexibility that can fight all the way up to the capture point. Some long-rage weapons for softening the rear-field defenses, and enough short/medium range weapons to engage targets along the way and once I get all the way there. Combinging large and medium lasers into different groups is something I used to do in the sp campaign, can combine them with kinetics for focus damage and tap them all manually when needed without overheating all the time.

I have been using the Cataphract the most lately and it is really close to that config already with good speed plus jumping. It is missing the LRM though. Have used some others but most of the Trial configs are more narrow.

The Cataphract is a solid performer and has the added benefit of being reasonably usable in it's stock configurations. If you're enjoying it, roll with it. I'd also second IraqiWalker's suggestion of looking at the Orion, though I should warn you that building one up can get real expensive real quick.

Personally I tend to recommend the Hunchback as the quintessential starter chassis, as it provides a lot of bang for your buck and has diverse selection of variants. (remember that you will need a total of three to unlock all the efficiencies)

Edited by HlynkaCG, 02 September 2014 - 06:14 PM.

[UrsusMorologus]

Looking at chassis in the mechlab, the Shadow Hawk SHD-2D and the Orion ON1-K both look like they could do the job. The Cataphract feels good but it doesnt look like any of them could get me what I want. I see people recommend Shadow Hawk a lot.

[Spike Brave]

I agree that an Orion may be best for you. Just wanted to add that one of the 'Phracts has a missile hardpoint in the head. It would limit you to an lrm 5, but it is a missile option for that mech.

[Koniving]

UrsusMorologus, on 02 September 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

I would like something with a couple of large lasers and an LRM coupled with a couple of mediums and an AC 20.

Just because of Redshift saying it's a lot of gun...

Atlas D.

Banshee. Extra laser and extra ammo here. Bit hotter though.

But since you meant AC/10... well there's a lot more choices.

You said you liked the Cataphract but it was missing the LRM? I'm not a fan of the 2X myself (though that would change with an art overhaul so that the tube count can increase)...
Cataphract 2X It's one laser short, but hey for a standard engine you'll make do.

[Koniving]

As Spike Brave mentioned there's the 4X as well. I love that, but not for LRM reasons.

Playing it pure stock though....


Shadowhawks are frequently recommended as it's one of the heaviest armored Mediums and has a high mounted ballistic hardpoint.

Orion K. You can get more ammo with an XL engine.
Vid...with my own preferred build.

Another vid. Back when I was experimenting with builds still.


Heading out myself. Things need to be shot. You'll find me near Saint Ives some day (the planet not the mech). See you there.

[IraqiWalker]

UrsusMorologus, on 02 September 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

Looking at chassis in the mechlab, the Shadow Hawk SHD-2D and the Orion ON1-K both look like they could do the job. The Cataphract feels good but it doesnt look like any of them could get me what I want. I see people recommend Shadow Hawk a lot.

The SHD is the easiest to use medium. Simply because it has JJs, and high mounted ballistic hardpoints. Allowing it to excel as a poptart. However, I would personally recommend the Hunchback over the SHD any day of the week.

It's 5 tons lighter, so it's considered inferior, but it's very nimble, so nimble in fact that it can fire directly behind it. it's short, allowing it to use cover far and away better than the SHD ever could (it's a very tall mech).

It doesn't have JJs, which I consider a plus in a starter mech. As that will allow you to actually navigate terrain, and recognize where you can and can't go (making the transition to mechs with JJs very easy. Transitioning from JJ to non-JJ mechs is VERY hard, thrice as hard if your starter mech is a JJ mech).

The SHD has better hitboxes in some respects since it doesn't have the easily targeted hunch, that the hunchback is so famous for.

It's a toss up between the two for starter mechs, but I always recommend the HBK-4SP specifically as the first mech, and then you can go with 2 other HBKs to round the collection up.

In the heavy section, the Orion, Thunderbolt, and CPLT-K2 are the all-rounders that can do a lot of different roles well. (K2 can't LRM boat, or mount missiles actually.)

[Redshift2k5]

UrsusMorologus, on 02 September 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

I actually meant AC-10 dunno why I wrote AC-20. What I'm looking for is flexibility that can fight all the way up to the capture point. Some long-rage weapons for softening the rear-field defenses, and enough short/medium range weapons to engage targets along the way and once I get all the way there. Combinging large and medium lasers into different groups is something I used to do in the sp campaign, can combine them with kinetics for focus damage and tap them all manually when needed without overheating all the time.

I have been using the Cataphract the most lately and it is really close to that config already with good speed plus jumping. It is missing the LRM though. Have used some others but most of the Trial configs are more narrow.

I dont really have a feel for range/distance yet, should probably try to study that more first.

I agree that I should not jump straight into the Assault class, like I said in the OP I need something lighter first.

Thanks for the information so far, very helpful

UrsusMorologus, on 02 September 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

Looking at chassis in the mechlab, the Shadow Hawk SHD-2D and the Orion ON1-K both look like they could do the job. The Cataphract feels good but it doesnt look like any of them could get me what I want. I see people recommend Shadow Hawk a lot.

Shadowhawk, Orion, Cataphract, all good choices. You may way to stick to a mech with jumpjets for your first purchase as it allows better use of the map (you can get up and over terrain that you should have walked around).

Can't really go wrong with large lasers and AC10, I run an Orion Protector with AC10, PPC, and two large lasers. note that you don't necessarily need "close range weapons" if you bring weapons like large lasers and ballistics, since they work just fine up close (although PPCs and LRMs generally require backup close range weaponry). I'd rather have 2 large lasers than four medium ones if I can spare the tonnage!

Shadowhawk is good because it is both versatile and affordable, although Heavies can generally do the same things but with more armor. Shadowhawk has poor visibility and torso twist, but does have good hitboxes & hardpoints.

[bayoucowboy]

Welcome! I thought I would toss in a recommendation for premium time if you have the funds. It gives a nice boost to both C-bill and XP earnings per match (ie reducing the grind to get more weapons for customization, upgrades, mechs, etc). Unfortunately it does run continuously once activated - so YMMV.

There were some nice articles/posts before "official" release talking about best value for your $ - I think it rated mech bays first, premium second?

The game is still basically TDM with slight variations from Assault and Conquest, so if repetition is not your thing, beware.

Also, if it hasn't been mentioned yet - you need 3 variants/chassis of the same mech - I think mostly at the same time - to get all of the unlocks from XP. When you have finished the Basic and Elite levels, the Basic level advantages get doubled. I'm not sure if its just me, but that seems to be when I really start to enjoy playing a particular chassis (it also means you have at least a few hours in on that chassis - so you should be more experienced)

Sorry to change topic, but I would have liked to know these things when I started last year

[Satan n stuff]

E N E R G Y, on 02 September 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

I think you should be weary of mixing loadouts. That's one of the #1 mistake newer players make in MWO in my opinion, apart from many other things they do wrong.

Generally the most efficient mechs are the ones geared for one-type of combat. Wasting tonnage on a LRM boat, with some machine guns or such, will render those weapons useless at range and vice versa.

This is why you obviously see specific roles in competitive play, since it's most efficient. You will have <300m brawling mechs, 600+ sniping mechs, LRM boats....

..I get the idea is appealing to have " cool" mech build with machine guns, pulse lasers, PPCs and SRMS all mixed into one , but it's just not competitive nor efficient.

What do you like to pilot? Do you like to be fast and light weaponed, or really slow but with massive firepower?

Or would you rather something in the middle?

Then, my second question, beside the initial mech chassis question, is do you like to use weaponry at close ranges, <300m or do you like to be far out and use your accurate aim to devastate your opponent?

That's not exactly useful advice for someone who probably can't play any single role effectively yet, I'd say start with two range groups ( for the love of Locust make sure they have significant overlap in their ranges ) and no more than two weapon types, and learn how to use each one from there.
Effective minmaxing requires that you actually know how to use a minmaxed build, and as far as I can tell no new player does. Given how often even experienced players die because their minmaxed mech got into a bad situation and subsequently into a fight it couldn't possibly survive, going that route with no experience with MWO at all will just lead to failure.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 03 September 2014 - 12:01 PM.

[n r g]

Satan n stuff, on 03 September 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

That's not exactly useful advice for someone who probably can't play any single role effectively yet, I'd say start with two range groups ( for the love of Locust make sure they have significant overlap in their ranges ) and no more than two weapon types, and learn how to use each one from there.
Effective minmaxing requires that you actually know how to use a minmaxed build, and as far as I can tell no new player does. Given how often even experienced players die because their minmaxed mech got into a bad situation and subsequently into a fight it couldn't possibly survive, going that route with no experience with MWO at all will just lead to failure.

It's better to start learning the right way than to recommend a new player builds that are ****.

I'm sorry but mixing small lasers and ac's and LRMs is just stupid. You negate half the weaponry when fighting at either long or short range, allowing you to get completely dominated if your at range, or if you choose short range, to get dominated there by pure SRM brawlers.

The whole "fun" machine gun loadouts with mixed weaponry appeal to the BT kids, but they serve no functional purpose at the elite level.

If you want to "have fun" and run machine guns and PPCs and ACs and LRMs on 1 mech , by all means do so.

But if you want to win, you'll quickly find out that isn't logical and asking non-experience, novice, Battletech MWO kids questions about this game is probably your first mistake.

i.e.

"derp derp *drolls at mouth*, well I just love my little Dragon, it is a killer mech!!! It has a small laser, and large pulse laser, and lrm 5 and some machine guns!!! it just wrecks stuff try iit!!!!!"

^^^^

Edited by E N E R G Y, 03 September 2014 - 01:08 PM.