99 replies to this topic

[Zyllos]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 September 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

too many 2 ER LLaser Ravens around, blame them, lol.

Sounds like a fix that sized hardpoints would solve (and give more emphasis on Omnimechs).

[bluepiglet]

Didn't we see this coming? Massive nerf bats rights after Clan meches became available for C-bills.

This is not even the end of the beginning.....to be continued......

[Kiryuin Ragyo]

Doesn't look that bad in game actually... just Trial Nova-PRIME no more chainfire usable, just semi-alphas. I thought it will be much worst.

[Xmith]

These changes will not change hardly anything.

Battlemech performance is dependent on the pilot.

I personally don't believe the changes will hurt my game.

Good pilots are op not the battlemechs

[BLOOD WOLF]

Xmith, on 05 September 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

These changes will not change hardly anything.

Battlemech performance is dependent on the pilot.

I personally don't believe the changes will hurt my game.

Good pilots are op not the battlemechs

All I care about is the CERLL change from 2.0s to 1.6 on the cool down.

Kiryuin Ragyo, on 05 September 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

Doesn't look that bad in game actually... just Trial Nova-PRIME no more chainfire usable, just semi-alphas. I thought it will be much worst.

Take note from this guy, Go in the game, test for 10 rounds and see if it drastically makes a difference.

[Bishop Steiner]

BLOOD WOLF, on 05 September 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

All I care about is the CERLL change from 2.0s to 1.6 on the cool down.
Take note from this guy, Go in the game, test for 10 rounds and see if it drastically makes a difference.

Pulse lasers do still suck,. even after 10 games, lol.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 September 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Pulse lasers do still suck,. even after 10 games, lol.

I dont know about that one, I love me some clan pulse mediums:)

X8 pulse on my nova, I just cant stop.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 05 September 2014 - 01:25 PM.

[Josef Koba]

RetroActive, on 05 September 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

Did they adjust the values at all after the feedback from the PTS? It doesn't look like it.

I'm of the opinion that placing these changes on the test server was to give the appearance of due diligence. I get the sense that these changes were going to be THE changes regardless of information compiled by the test server. I was one among many who voiced the opinion that their nerf/buff extravaganzas needed to be tested on the test server first because far too often we've seen significant changes to systems that proved to be overboard. Heck, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe their proposed changes were the "sweet spot" they'd been searching for and the test server simply validated that. But given the massive amount of changes I've seen in the approximately two years I've been playing, I am not confident in their ability to intuitively find the sweet spot.

Napes339, on 05 September 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

Paul posted about the change to beam duration for the IS ER Llas. It will be adjusted to 1.25 as planned on the September 9th patch. 1.5 seconds was a mistake that slipped by.

Slipped by... Amazing. Lots of mistakes slip by around here.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Pulse Lasers Either:
Double the damage, and heat vs their counterpart eg. IS ML does 5 dmg 4 heat, make IS MPL do 10dmg 8 heat

half the burn time and cool down vs counter part.

etc etc.

If i'm going to have reduced range, there better be a perk, it's supposed to be accuracy in lore so I'm assuming that means the laser fires really quick.

[Josef Koba]

Xmith, on 05 September 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

These changes will not change hardly anything.

Battlemech performance is dependent on the pilot.

I personally don't believe the changes will hurt my game.

Good pilots are op not the battlemechs

Then why make these changes? If these changes will hardly change anything, and the fact is that good pilots are OP, then why make these changes at all? Why nerf certain systems (CERSL) into the ground thereby reducing their viability to the point where hardly anyone will use them, if these changes won't change hardly anything?

[Alistair Winter]

One of the worst patches to date.

By now, most of the sensible people playing this game will tell you that the 8 Clan mechs are not equal. Some of them are overpowered, some of them are fairly close to the top Inner Sphere equivalents, and some of them may even be inferior. I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain about the Adder being overpowered compared to Inner Sphere mechs.

What does Paul do? He nerfs all mechs equally by changing the weapon values. And he nerfs all the energy weapons, including small lasers and small pulse lasers, with very little apparent logic.

What else? The best Clan mechs are arguably the ones using lots ballistics and SRMs. But PGI leaves those alone and then Russ goes out and says this is hopefully the last time they're nerfing clan weapons. So it's not even a matter of nerfing all clan mechs equally. It's effectively nerfing the Nova, Warhawk, Adder and Kit Fox much harder than the the Timber Wolf and Dire Wolf.

I don't even, guys. I don't even.

[Kiryuin Ragyo]

WE ARE BACK TO THE STONE AGE AND SWITCHING ON AUTOMATICS WEAPONS AND MISSILES. VIETNAM MODE ON!

...thnx Paul, you've just turn MWO into CoD.

[BumbleBee]

I thought that "Burn time cant be used in judging how a weapon is balanced, learn to aim n00b" was the consensus of the "Nerf Clans" posters.

Seems that only applies to Clan mechs :/

Clan Large Pulse Lasers were only being overused because of the cPPC and cERLL overnerfs. cMPL and cSPL were not great before the nerf.

Seriously, there are really only 2 problem Clan Mechs (Storm Crow and Timber Wolf), and one that might need some small tweaking (Dire Wolf).
FFS, add a heat or speed penalty for losing a side torso and tweak these 3. That should fix most of the issues.

Edited by BumbleBee, 05 September 2014 - 02:09 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Range drops, completely acceptable 100%

Heat ramp on ERSL ERML, too much, 50% gain on smalls | 20% gain on Meds, too much.

Nova is pretty much ruined in any capacity as a laserboat.

What the hell were you thinking?

Edited by Mister D, 05 September 2014 - 02:09 PM.

[Sorbic]

lol I just tested the trial Nova on Rivercity. Fire bank 1, wait until beams stop and fire the second bank. Overheat. Weee And in other good news, if you Alpha (don't!) on a hot map you can skip that whole damaged internals bit and go straight to the scrap yard. They either need to drop the heat back down a bit or raise the ghost heat threshold slightly.

That said I do love the flashing indicator telling me the map launched when the game's windowed!

Edited by Sorbic, 05 September 2014 - 02:32 PM.

[Sandpit]

Alistair Winter, on 05 September 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

What does Paul do? He nerfs all mechs equally by changing the weapon values. And he nerfs all the energy weapons, including small lasers and small pulse lasers, with very little apparent logic.

which is exactly what's been done since day 1 and yet whenever anyone mentions stuff like that the cheerleaders come out in force to dispute it with "everything's great! you shouldn't post this! quit complaining!"

PGI has ALWAYS made balance changes for the entire game based around 1-2 builds. That's exactly why we keep having imbalances.

"Hey, PGI, this build is imbalanced!"
"Ok, we're "listening", we'll nerf every system used in that mech for every mech!"
"Uhm.... you just hurt every mech that DOESN'T use them in that very specific and narrow manner"
"We listened to you! Everything is going great!"
"Uhm... no it isn't, you just ruined 8 mechs to make one build "average"
(insert various cheerleaders talking about what a great job PGI is doing)


Instead of working on underlying issues with specific builds, they're just going to continue playing nerf warrior apparently. I'm fairly sure what will happen. After this weekend (or during), they're going to either revert or drastically reduce all nerfs on short and medium range weapon systems. They'll leave the long range weapon nerfs as is.

[Dark Jackal]

Sandpit, on 05 September 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

Instead of working on underlying issues with specific builds, they're just going to continue playing nerf warrior apparently. I'm fairly sure what will happen. After this weekend (or during), they're going to either revert or drastically reduce all nerfs on short and medium range weapon systems. They'll leave the long range weapon nerfs as is.

'Mech of Duty Online

[n r g]

Ultimatum X, on 05 September 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

Weapon Balance

IS ER Large Laser heat down from 8.5 to 8.0
IS ER Large Laser duration increased from 1.0 to 1.5

Heat down I'm assuming comes with it being 1.5s.

I don't think it needs to be 1.5s, that's too long. I do understand the goal of this however.
1.3s maximum if PGI really feels the beam needs to be longer and to create role space for the IS LLAS.


Clan ER Large Laser damage down from 11.25 to 11.0
Clan ER Large Laser heat penalty down from 12.0 to 4.0
Clan ER Large Laser long range (max damage) reduced from 890m to 740m
Clan ER Large Laser max range (falloff to zero damage) reduced from 1780m to 1480m
Clan ER Large Laser duration down from 2.0s to 1.6s

I'm OK with everything except the beam duration. I never like the 1.5 beam, so while 1.6 is better than 2s its still a bit too long imo.

Clan ER Medium Laser base heat increased from 5.0 to 6.0
Clan ER Medium Laser long range (max damage) reduced from 450m to 400m
Clan ER Medium Laser max range (falloff to zero damage) reduced from 900m to 800m
Clan ER Medium Laser duration down from 1.3s to 1.25s


Should be heat or range nerf, not both. I think the range nerf makes more sense.

6 Heat for a 7 damage weapon seems a bit extreme, should have tried 5.5 first.

-0.05s beam duration is amount no one cares about. Should be 1.2s.


Clan ER Small Laser base heat increased from 2.0 to 3.0
Clan ER Small Laser long range (max damage) reduced from 200m to 150m
Clan ER Small Laser max range (falloff to zero damage) reduced from 400m to 300m

There is not really much value in taking this weapon now unless you are a Nova, and if you are a Nova you should probably take CERMLAS anyway.

2x CERSLAS = 6 heat, 8 damage. 150m. 1 Ton, 2 Hardpoints
1x CERMLAS = 6 heat, 7 damage. 400m, 1 Ton, 1 Hardpoint

This is a no brainer.


Clan Large Pulse Laser damage down from 11.8 to 11.6
Clan Large Pulse Laser heat penalty increased from 2.8 to 4.0
Clan Large Pulse Laser base heat increased from 8.0 to 9.0
Clan Large Pulse Laser long range (max damage) reduced from 600m to 525m
Clan Large Pulse Laser max range (falloff to zero damage) reduced from 1200m to 1050m
Clan Large Pulse Laser duration down from 1.3s to 1.2s

These seem OK, I think the beam duration needs to come down for this still. 1s or so.



Clan Medium Pulse Laser base heat increased from 5.5 to 6.0
Clan Medium Pulse Laser long range (max damage) reduced from 400m to 330m
Clan Medium Pulse Laser max range (falloff to zero damage) reduced from 800m to 660m
Clan Medium Pulse Laser duration down from 0.9s to 0.85s

This weapon seems awful now, I will never use it.


Clan Small Pulse Laser base heat increased from 2.4 to 3.4
Clan Small Pulse Laser long range (max damage) reduced from 180m to 150m
Clan Small Pulse Laser max range (falloff to zero damage) reduced from 360m to 300m

I can't even fathom what line of reasoning led to nerfing this weapon outside of what seems like an obsessive slavishness to "normalizing all the things".

It might be a forum meme, but it's apt.




Clan LRM-5 cooldown increased from 3.25s to 3.5s

Clan LRM-10 cooldown increased from 3.75s to 4.0s

Clan LRM-15 cooldown increased from 4.25s to 4.5s

Clan LRM-20 cooldown increased from 4.75s to 5.0s


These seem reasonable.



Clan Streak SRM-4 cooldown decreased from 5.25s to 5.0s

Clan Streak SRM-6 cooldown decreased from 7.0s to 6.0s


A touch better, still not a good weapon choice.

6s CD for a brawl range weapon that has auto spread is hysterically bad.

PGI needs to go back to the drawing board on the entire streak weapon system if this is the best
they can do.

I'm indifferent to all the changes. I felt they definitely could have done it more efficiently, as you stated, by consulting with the competitive community.

I never saw people do OP things boating medium or small pulses, so I too, wonder why they had to smash their nerf hamer on it.

But I agree, They could definitely just nerf heat or range on certain things, not both.

and the 0.5 beam decrease is so trivial I don't get it.

[Green Mamba]

Ultimatum X, on 05 September 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

People shoot lights in the legs dude.

Welcome to the world of Adders & Kit Foxes.


Oh wait, scratch that, put a 210 into your Raven for the next week or two.

Come see how the other half lives.

Sorry but I very rarely drive a raven I am talking about my spider..Like I said Both Sides ,So no
its Not the Same ..not even close

Edited by Green Mamba, 05 September 2014 - 03:17 PM.

[Fuligin]

I am getting pretty tired of firing up MWO to find out I have to redo every mech for the latest round of changes. I just got through replacing all of the CERLL with CLPL and now back again.

I don't think the changes are in response to the 'nerf clans' requests that flooded the forums during the time that the clan mechs were only available for real money.

It seems more like part of a long term plan. Release high quality mechs for real money. Allow players to see how nice they are and possibly buy some themselves. Then about when they come out for c-bills nerf them or their weapons or both, resulting in broken, craptastic mechs with fancy paint.

Introduce new nicely functioning mechs for real money. Rinse. Repeat.

The weapons module changes fold nicely into this scheme as the modules will restore weapons to a functionality similar to what they had before the nerfs.

Certainly I understand the desire to sell more mechs for real money, but at a certain point there is a burnout factor for me. I bought individual mechs for money, then phoenix, then clans and each has been slapped down in turn.

I guess all I can do is wait and watch for what tease they come up with next to try and sell me something else. This time I won't buy though. I have had enough.