237 replies to this topic

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

ALL THAT JUST PROVES ONE THING: - ON A GR8 CLAN-MECHS USUALLY ARE SH!T PILOTS BEHIND THE WHEEL!

Edited by Hagoromo Gitsune, 06 September 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 September 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

don't forget crit factor for the Ember.

HECK YES... all those MG's. It's a perfect little rogue.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kiiyor, on 06 September 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

TL;DR

FTFY

[Kiiyor]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 September 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

FTFY

This is perfect. It helps that even my TL;DR is longer than most sane people's posts.

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 September 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

FTFY

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 September 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

don't forget crit factor for the Ember.

Definitely, honestly I just wanted to keep it brief.

It has better hitboxes than the Jenner, it's smaller and harder to hit.

It trades a bit of upfront alpha power (-2 MLAS) but gains heat free DPS.

It's probably the best battlefield vulture in the game.

[Fire and Salt]

IS does certainly have too many bad mechs dragging down performance.
Some need to be buffed (Ex: All atlas except D-DC)
Some are just at the lower end of their weight class, so its no surprise that they don't do so well (Ex: The good Locusts, The good Commandos, Cicada-3M)
Some experience both of these problems (Ex: The bad locusts, the bad commandos, the non-ecm cicadas, dragons, awesomes)



With the exception of the Warhawk, all clan mechs are at the maximum weight for their class, or within 5 tons of it. This is obviously going to show up in the stats.



IMO, damage is irrelevant. Only kills matter. This misconception that damage is somehow relevant is why AC2s were nerfed into near uselessness.




As for the top performing IS mechs:
Ember - no surprise there. It is great at killing targets of any size. Among other light mechs, only the 6ML jenner exceeds it in light vs. light ability (barely), but said Jenner is much less effective against larger targets. The all SRM oxide may possibly (barely) exceed the ember when it comes to getting behind assault mechs and blowing them up, but it is nowhere near on par with the Ember when it comes to shooting anything remotely fast.
IMO the Ember is the only hero 'mech in the entire game I would consider to be OP. Quad lasers and quad machine guns is just plain badass.

Shadowhawk - Hey its 55 tons. It outweighs most IS mediums. Ton for ton I think the blackjack is great, but it is still 10 tons short.

Jagermech / Firebrand: Jagermech is the ultimate 'mech for killing cleanly. Most firebrand configs can be built on other Jagers with a few exceptions, and vice-versa. Buy hey, if I'm gonna run gonna run dual gauss or dual ac20s, I'm gonna use the Firebrand for that C-bill bonus.
Imagine if there was a 75 ton version of the Jager. It would be the king of heavies.

Misery: Stalkers are supremely tankish. I enjoy my Quad LL+SRM STK-3F and my 3LL+AC20 Misery about equally. I tend to take the Misery more because of the cbills, but in general all of the stalkers are good at doing what assault mechs are meant to do. I wish they would give some quirks or something to the stalkers that have no reason to exist due to being outdone in all ways by other variants.



Yes, I own the heroes for Firestarter, Jager, and Stalker and IMO the only one that is noticeably better than the c-bill versions is that Ember.






Anyways, good work on the stats, man. You must be tired LOL.

[ShinobiHunter]

TL;DR


Just kidding. This is incredible info, my hat is off to you sir! Great work, great presentation.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Thank you for this thread. Pure win doesn't even begin to describe it.

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

ShinobiHunter, on 06 September 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

TL;DR

Spoiler

Kiiyor, on 06 September 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

. all those MG's. It's a perfect little rogue.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Kiiyor, on 06 September 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

HECK YES... all those MG's. It's a perfect little rogue.

It helps the Ember (and firestarters) are a LOT more resilient than other IS lights who tend to bite it too easily. MGs are brawling weapons, and a light built for brawling AND speed it a bit over the top at times. Mediums and Heavies are suppose to hunt lights, not the other way around. LOL

[bluepiglet]

This proves what we already knew, this Clan Invasion thing is a "OP mech for rent" scheme, the ones willing to spend real cash get to abuse the intentionally broken meches for a few months before they become available for C-bills then immediately nerfed into oblivion, which just started to happen momentarily.

Edited by bluepiglet, 06 September 2014 - 08:52 AM.

[Bryan Ekman]

Wow! Love the effort and attention to detail. It would be interesting to compare your findings against the same telemetry we've collected!

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Bryan Ekman, on 06 September 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

It would be interesting to compare your findings against the same telemetry we've collected!

[KraftySOT]

Every one who suggests balancing be done by changing stats should be banned from all MechWarrior related things.

How about clanners lose Cbills for shooting at mechs that aren't their target or that are targeted by another clan mech?

How about using the actual canon rules for balance. And 10v12.

I hate you people.

[El Bandito]

Fire and Salt, on 06 September 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

Some are just at the lower end of their weight class, so its no surprise that they don't do so well (Ex: The good Locusts, The good Commandos, Cicada-3M) Some experience both of these problems (Ex: The bad locusts, the bad commandos, the non-ecm cicadas, dragons, awesomes) With the exception of the Warhawk, all clan mechs are at the maximum weight for their class, or within 5 tons of it. This is obviously going to show up in the stats.

Guess what. Mad Dog is at the lowest end of the Clan Heavy class with 60 tons, and I will bet my left nut that it will be better than many heavier IS mechs once it comes out. It has 28 tons of pod space!

People think A1 is annoying? Wait til they get a glimpse of Mad Dog A, bolstered by other omnipods.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 September 2014 - 09:14 AM.

[Fire and Salt]

lockwoodx, on 06 September 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

It helps the Ember (and firestarters) are a LOT more resilient than other IS lights who tend to bite it too easily. MGs are brawling weapons, and a light built for brawling AND speed it a bit over the top at times. Mediums and Heavies are suppose to hunt lights, not the other way around. LOL

I do not fully agree.

Firestarters are easy to kill with an ac20 + 3ml blackjack because you can shoot a side torso with the AC20 and then follow it up with the mediums.

Try doing that to a Jenner.



When I'm piloting a jenner, I kinda like the large CT + small side torsos because I can avoid insta-death do to a side torso hit.



With the Jenner you are protecting that CT rather than all 3 torsos, so you tend to get a much more consistent experience. You don't get side-torso ganked out of the blue in a Jenner.

KraftySOT, on 06 September 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

How about clanners lose Cbills for shooting at mechs that aren't their target or that are targeted by another clan mech?

Because balancing with cbills is stupid, since I am rich and I don't care.

Edited by Fire and Salt, 06 September 2014 - 09:10 AM.

[KraftySOT]

Seriously. The rules are the rules.

Nerfing and buffing is ******** and exacerbates existing problems and creates entirely new ones. All you do is create a new balance that isn't balanced. Its not red vs blue and never will be. Until you start thinking outside of the box and creating entirely new outside factors that effect the game play the way you want, youll never get balance...youll just get frustrated players, and a different "OP" mech or mechs.

Its freaking amateur hour at PGI.

Then be rich. And don't care. How does that not effect the other 450 players who aren't rich.

So you end up shoveling more money into the game to play you clan mechs like theyre IS mechs. How is that bad?

[Fire and Salt]

El Bandito, on 06 September 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

Guess what. Mad Dog is at the lowest end of the Clan Heavy class with 60 tons, and I will bet my left nut that it will be better than many heavier IS mechs once it comes out.

People think A1 is annoying? Wait til they get a glimpse of Mad Dog A, bolstered by other omnipods.

Jager falls into that same category of a lighter mech that performs well.

Still doesn't refute what I said. The jager and the mad dog would both be more effective if they weighed 75 tons with the same hardpoints and hitboxes as long as the breakdown is done by weight class instead of exact tonnage.

To clarify, my point isn't that clan mechs arent better, my point is that we are changing multiple variables at once, which makes the comparison less scientific.


I also am not sure we will get the mad dog A. We might just get the Prime, B and C. Dual gauss is going to be badass, though. Thats the one I am waiting for... Sure you will need to lower the armor and you wont have tonnage for backup weapons if you want good ammo... but still... CASE + Clan tech engine will help offset the low armor.

Edited by Fire and Salt, 06 September 2014 - 09:24 AM.

[KraftySOT]

You could also...kick people out of the clans for doing it.

Not being able to use the stuff you paid for would suck. But im sure you didn't care when PGI booted people from the #saveMWO movement.

So why should the entire rest of the player base care if youre a rich jerk off, and play like an *******?