97 replies to this topic

[Fire and Salt]

Shadowhawk is the most recommended medium... and for good reason.

Blackjack is also very good. If you have a fondness for the blackjack, I would go for it.



If someone said "what mech should I buy first" and gave me no additional information, I would say Shadowhawk.


That being said, everyone has different preferences...

I have 3 friends who based their decision on my suggestion:

1 Got a Blackjack BJ-1 because he likes ACs PPC Lasers and JJs but doesn't like missiles. He got a BJ-3 Next.

1 Got a Cataphract CTF-1X because he really wanted the Cataphract 3D, but it was cheaper, and you need 3 of each chassis anyways.

1 got a CPLT-K2 because he likes PPC+Gauss+LRMs. He was torn between the K2 and a Jager because both offer at least 1 sniper chassis and at least 1 LRM chassis, but he went with the catapult because some of the variants offer jump jets.

[Hoax415]

If your favorite trial so far is the Blackjack you should probably get a Blackjack.

Unless you are a powergamer at heart aka a Spike from mtg. Then you don't want to waste time with a less than 55ton medium.

[Johnny Reb]

Pandawaffle, on 06 September 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

I'm new to MWO and have only tried the trial mechs thusfar. I was recommended to buy a hunchback for learning to play the game in a Twitch chatroom, but I would like a second opinion before I make the purchase. I've also looked up threads similar to my request in this one, but many of them are from 2013, and I would like something more up-to-date.
I've enjoyed the blackjack thusfar, but I have been hurt badly in games by the coordinated missile spam that clan-stacking groups commonly do, so a kit-out with ECM would be nice.

Hunch was the old suggestion. Now get a shadowhawk 2-2D. Prolly best medium and if you get it down you got any other mech!

[Escef]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 September 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

No ECM means it will die to all the LRMs that are blotting out the sky. I'd skip Medium mechs, go for the big boy.

It's not nearly as bad as you think.

However, simple advice for LRMs: stick to cover, move up, if you see an enemy UAV in the air it has to die.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Escef, on 06 September 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

It's not nearly as bad as you think.

However, simple advice for LRMs: stick to cover, move up, if you see an enemy UAV in the air it has to die.

I wouldn't know, I don't play this piece of crap anymore. But by reading the forums, it would seem LRMs are the god-weapon of MW:O.

ECM or bust buddy, ECM or bust.

[Escef]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 September 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

I wouldn't know, I don't play this piece of crap anymore.

In other words, it's safe to ignore your opinions.

[Johnny Reb]

Escef, on 06 September 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

It's not nearly as bad as you think.

However, simple advice for LRMs: stick to cover, move up, if you see an enemy UAV in the air it has to die.

If your new I would say don't use lrms. You will get lazy and not get the skill you need in a fight. LRM are called easy but brawl first then when you get a hold of the game and maps if you want go lrms!

[Fire and Salt]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 September 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

But by reading the forums, it would seem LRMs are the god-weapon of MW:O.

LRMs are the god weapon among beginners because they are easy to use. That's not to say there is no skill in LRM use... it is just skill in positioning yourself rather than aiming. Valid skills nonetheless. But beginners have no skill with positioning so LRMs can ruin them. I watched my roomie do 700 damage in a trial LRM stalker and he didn't even move once he got into position. (He parked up on hamburger hill on alpine, and noone was able to get over the crest of the hill to shoot him. I think he ended the match basically undamaged. I'm not even sure anyone even had him in LOS. Of course, his success was due to his team playing well... and this was presumably low ELO match becuase he had just started playing the game. Interestingly enough, he got a blackjack as his first 'Mech. He said LRMs were 'boring'

IMO the true god weapon of MWO is the NARC. Expose yourself for 1 second in a light mech, and in return you get basically unlimited damage potential.

Edited by Fire and Salt, 06 September 2014 - 12:48 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

Fire and Salt, on 06 September 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

LRMs are the god weapon among beginners because they are easy to use. That's not to say there is no skill in LRM use... it is just skill in positioning yourself rather than aiming. Valid skills nonetheless. But beginners have no skill with positioning so LRMs can ruin them. I watched my roomie do 700 damage in a trial LRM stalker and he didn't even move once he got into position. I'm not even sure anyone even had him in LOS. Of course, his success was due to his team playing well... and this was presumably low ELO match becuase he had just started playing the game. Interestingly enough, he got a blackjack as his first 'Mech.

IMO the true god weapon of MWO is the NARC. Expose yourself for 1 second in a light mech, and in return you get basically unlimited damage potential.

This! get used to the balistics and lasers first then if you want lrm. Shadowhawk is a great starter!

edit: terrible lrm boats are real obvious! They are all around don't be that guy to start!

Edited by Johnny Reb, 06 September 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[Fire and Salt]

Hoax415, on 06 September 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

If your favorite trial so far is the Blackjack you should probably get a Blackjack.

Unless you are a powergamer at heart aka a Spike from mtg. Then you don't want to waste time with a less than 55ton medium.

Blackjack does AC20 better than the shadowhawk. There are valid arguments in favor of the blackjack even if you are a "powergamer".

[Koniving]

Pandawaffle, on 06 September 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

I'm new to MWO and have only tried the trial mechs thusfar. I was recommended to buy a hunchback for learning to play the game in a Twitch chatroom, but I would like a second opinion before I make the purchase. I've also looked up threads similar to my request in this one, but many of them are from 2013, and I would like something more up-to-date.
I've enjoyed the blackjack thusfar, but I have been hurt badly in games by the coordinated missile spam that clan-stacking groups commonly do, so a kit-out with ECM would be nice.

It largely depends. As the first response suggests, a Centurion is a good idea. They tend to be simple to set up. There is a delay in firing missiles if you do not open the doors (with the / button), but beyond that they tend to be good mechs to run two weapon groups on. The arms are huge so they can soak up fire if you twist away from the enemy attack.

The Hunchback is also a fairly good choice. Unlike the Centurion's simplicity, the Hunchback can sometimes need up to 5 firing groups (depending on how complex you build it). Most Hunchbacks keep it around 3 firing groups. They tend to run hotter as well so keep that in mind. Their torso twist range is incredible, visibility is pretty solid (except to the right on the ones with hunches). Their shorter frame tends to make it harder to hit them and the on-level-with-the-head shoulder cannons/lasers are very handy for shooting over crests and hills.

A Shadowhawk do similar things to a Hunchback but is taller than than the Centurion. Still it also has a higher maximum armor and can jump. Higher tonnage allows it to carry a little bit more. The arms are large enough to soak damage (unlike the Hunch). The ability to jump comes with its own banes which includes breaking your legs on rough landings. The overall downfall of the Shadowhawk is it means the other side must get a mech of the highest possible tonnage of medium to compare to yours.

Blackjacks and by some extension Vindicators are not at all bad. The only issue is that most of the time you will want an XL engine otherwise you're left with the only choice of energy boating (as ballistics and/or missiles get heavy very fast). XL engines tend to cost a lot.

No matter what you get, the first thing you should do is switch to double heatsinks.

[Escef]

Actually I think something like THIS would be a good mech to learn LRMs on. Maybe cut a jet for another ton of ammo. Heavy armor, acceptable speed, good mobility, and you learn to not rely on the LRMs. In PUG matches the amount of ECM and the quality of your team mates is very variable, this mech does not rely on LRMs as the primary source of damage, but it has them to soften the enemy up before closing if things go well (or even fling at retreating enemies if things go very well).

[Satan n stuff]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 September 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

More ECM counteracts spotters. Can't spot through 4 or 5 ECM, all new players need to buy DDC's. GO GO GO.

That's never going to happen, so why make yourself a target? Even the newbs always shoot the Atlas first.

[Johnny Reb]

Koniving, on 06 September 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

It largely depends. As the first response suggests, a Centurion is a good idea. They tend to be simple to set up. There is a delay in firing missiles if you do not open the doors (with the / button), but beyond that they tend to be good mechs to run two weapon groups on. The arms are huge so they can soak up fire if you twist away from the enemy attack.

The Hunchback is also a fairly good choice. Unlike the Centurion's simplicity, the Hunchback can sometimes need up to 5 firing groups (depending on how complex you build it). Most Hunchbacks keep it around 3 firing groups. They tend to run hotter as well so keep that in mind. Their torso twist range is incredible, visibility is pretty solid (except to the right on the ones with hunches). Their shorter frame tends to make it harder to hit them and the on-level-with-the-head shoulder cannons/lasers are very handy for shooting over crests and hills.

A Shadowhawk do similar things to a Hunchback but is taller than than the Centurion. Still it also has a higher maximum armor and can jump. Higher tonnage allows it to carry a little bit more. The arms are large enough to soak damage (unlike the Hunch). The ability to jump comes with its own banes which includes breaking your legs on rough landings. The overall downfall of the Shadowhawk is it means the other side must get a mech of the highest possible tonnage of medium to compare to yours.

Blackjacks and by some extension Vindicators are not at all bad. The only issue is that most of the time you will want an XL engine otherwise you're left with the only choice of energy boating (as ballistics and/or missiles get heavy very fast). XL engines tend to cost a lot.

No matter what you get, the first thing you should do is switch to double heatsinks.

LOL, yes dbl heatsinks is a mandatory upgrade despite what mech you get!

Johnny Reb, on 06 September 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

LOL, yes dbl heatsinks is a mandatory upgrade despite what mech you get!

Shadow will let you try eveything. Thats why I recommend it. You want my fav medium its the kintaro-18 but its only missile and laser.

Edited by Johnny Reb, 06 September 2014 - 01:07 PM.

[Fire and Salt]

True that most blackjacks benefit from an XL.

Here is one that uses the stock standard engine - only needs Endo Steel and DHS as upgrades.
BJ-1

Only downside to this build is that you don't get that much AC10 ammo. In theory, 300 damage worth with the AC10, plus you have an ERPPC that will never run out. With the PPC added in, you will probably not run out until you do 300-500 damage, which is usually satisfying for a beginner.

Note that there are 14 free slots, so you could theoretically add ferro armor and save tonnage... but you wont have ANY free slots.

I wouldn't get ferro specifically for this buuld though, since you may want to take if off again once you buy an XL. It only saves about 1 ton on the blackjack. (Exact amount depends on how much armor you have.) This build is only intended to be something to use until you can afford an XL engine. But I thought I would post it since its kinda fun.

Best thing about that build is that the PPC and the AC10 have the same exact projectile speed, so they will hit the same spot... its basically like a longer ranged, faster moving AC20.

Plus it will teach you how to block damage... in my example you will want to use the right side as a shield, but you can easily build a right handed version.




You can also use the 225 engine from the BJ-1X to build a 'downgrade' of the hero BJ-1
BJ-1

You only get 1 medium laser instead of 3... but you are more durable and you will never overheat this thing.







An optimized blackjack typically includes:
XL235
DHS
Endo Steel Structure
Standard Armor (Usually there are enough slots for FF, but there are exceptions)

Here are some examples:
PPC Blackjack BJ-1
PPC Blackjack BJ-3
AC20 BJ-1


The BJ-1X is different because it can hold a bigger engine. XL295 is the max for that, and it is usually the engine of choice.

Here is a BJ-1X build:
Laser Brawler / Light Killer BJ-1X If you alpha strike all of the weapons you will get extra heat due to ghost heat, so what you do is fire the 6 mediums, and then wait .5 seconds, and then fire the 2 medium pulse lasers. The BJ-1X can't jump, but it can go 116.



The only BJ I do not recommend is the BJ-1DC. It is the only one that is slow and has no jumpjets. Its not 'bad' its just that there aren't many things that you can do with that one, that you can't also do on another version of the blackjack.

Edited by Fire and Salt, 06 September 2014 - 01:50 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

recommending a blackjack to a new player to me is really a sh!tty move.

Edited by Johnny Reb, 06 September 2014 - 01:28 PM.

[Fire and Salt]

Johnny Reb, on 06 September 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

recommending a blackjack to a new player to me is really a sh!tty move.

Even if their favorite trial 'mech is the BJ1 Champion?

[Roughneck45]

Johnny Reb, on 06 September 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

recommending a blackjack to a new player to me is really a sh!tty move.

Its a great mech, but it requires experience to really make it shine.

The shadowhawk is more durable, less XL dependent, and can field a greater diversity of hardpoints and loadouts.

Fire and Salt, on 06 September 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Even if their favorite trial 'mech is the BJ1 Champion?

Certainly would not be a bad way to go, if you are willing to spend a few bucks.

[Fire and Salt]

Though the BJ does generally need an XL... one good thing about the BJ is that the XL235 is the perfect engine for almost all BJ-1 and BJ-3 builds.

Shadowhawk optimal builds use much more varied engines. I Have personally used:
XL255
XL280
XL295
XL300
XL325

Not that you shouldn't get a shadowhawk.... they are great.

As I said... if I had no other information the shadowhawk is the 'mech I would recommend for a player.

But if you really like that AC20 blackjack... know that it is a good 'mech.

[Johnny Reb]

i WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THE LOW SCALE WEIGHT MECH TO A NEW PLAYER.