48 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

Little background. Legendary, Overlord, Masakari and I own every hero. For the most part I see the value in the hero mechs. The last two, not so much. To the point where this "whale" is really considering further purchases.

I was in on the SIB. It is a Vindicator for god sakes. And 3750 MC didn't seem that bad. But then I had to throw in 5 Mill c-bills to make it viable. Really? 3750 and all standard equipment?

But still I bought the latest hero, Sparky. Over 4k MC, or around 18 USD. Again all standard equipment. And it looks like it will take around 7 Mill to make playable.

That is total crap.

I am very disheartened by this turn of events. Previous HMs were for the most part plug and play. The past 2 are not even remotely close.

If the next hero comes out in the same fashion I will pass. And it may be some time before I decide to refill my MC coffers.

[Mcgral18]

Blame the lore, since both of these heroes are taken directly from it.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Vindicator

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Griffin

[1453 R]

Well, the St. Ives Blue is actually a faithful recreation of a canonical tabletop 'Hero' Vindicator, as seen here. The community pretty much flat demanded that the SIB make it in as the Bindicator Hero. I just checked the Griffin pages for Sparky, and it turns out Sparky's the same deal.

So yeah. These aren't Piranha originals, they're lore-appropriate 'Mechs piloted by heroes of the tabletop canon, similarly to Yen-Lo-Wang. Minus the claws, of course.

[CheeseThief]

The St Ives Blue and Sparky are actual mechs driven by 'Heroes' in the lore.

Both are 3025 tech.

[CycKath]

As mentioned, lot of people have been clamoring for lore canon hero 'Mechs and the last three, the Hellslinger included, reflect this. Unfortunately for MWO players, a lot of the canon TT heroes are 3025 tech variants, YLW for example.

[Ted Wayz]

I don't mind lore cannon hero mechs, with the Vindicator there were not many choices (read one other). But that doesn't mean that a premium needs to be charged just for the sake of lore.

My feedback is even though I own all the TT books I still ant my $$ worth. So cut the crap and return to making playable hero mechs. That or charge a reasonable fee for the mechs, especially 3025 mechs released in a 3050 timeline.

Save the lore mechs for a "Lore Pack". There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[Mcgral18]

PGI releases good Hero mechs, community cries OP.

PGI releases lore friendly Hero mechs, other community cries bad. Stock mech community loves them, though.


They just can't win.

[Tremendous Upside]

Consider yourself lucky bro. No amount of money can swap the brakes out on my Pretty Baby.

[Eboli]

^^ Gotta like that

[Malleus011]

As a stock player, Sparky is welcome. Now if only we could've gotten Butterbee instead of Jester ...

[Angel of Annihilation]

I have to also put out there that Sparky is one of the few hero mechs I have seen that I think is a massive improvement over the standard variants. I mean it totally solves the Griffin's one major flaw, all its weapons being located one side of the mech. I also like the pure energy set up.

In any case, I am not disappoint at all with Sparky, however $18 is a bit much, especially with new clan mechs apparently right around the corner. I will probably pick up a Sparky when it goes on a 50% off sale though. $9 is very reasonable (and really what we should be paying in the first place).

[CycKath]

Malleus011, on 09 September 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

As a stock player, Sparky is welcome. Now if only we could've gotten Butterbee instead of Jester ...

Makes me wonder if IGP pushed for a certain style of 'Mech, last few heroes all lore ones and coming when PGI was taking over control...

[Elizander]

I have a suggestions regarding Sparky and Lore-centered hero mechs.

PGI has the ability to bundle things with UI2.0 and obviously the MC price of Sparky is fixed at the 75MC/ton (I think that's what it is) formula. Of course this and other heroes (with SHS and no Endo) are obviously 'less value for money' due to the inconsistency of some heroes being souped up with DHS and so on.

I suggest that they bundle some C-bills with some hero mechs for customization if those hero mechs do not have upgrades. The only thing we really need to cover for is DHS (1.5m) and Endo Steel so maybe 2,000,000 to 2,500,000 C-bills to go with it would balance out the cash value to those who are not so focused on lore.

You get your lore hero mech and more competitive players/min-maxes/'don't care about lore" players get more bang for their buck. Someone will haggle for the XL engine but we don't need to worry about that!

Edited by Elizander, 09 September 2014 - 08:18 PM.

[JackPoint]

The trouble with Lore friendly hero mechs,99% o them are boats and they don't fit well in mwo with all the " balancing" pgi have done-are doing. There was no ghostheat penalties, so these lore friendly mechs get shafted.

You're buying a Delorian dressed as a Lamborgini

[Kmieciu]

I thought the whales had enough C-Bills to outfit their mechs because of the premium/hero +80% bonus?

[Russ Bullock]

Ted Wayz, on 09 September 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

Little background. Legendary, Overlord, Masakari and I own every hero. For the most part I see the value in the hero mechs. The last two, not so much. To the point where this "whale" is really considering further purchases.

I was in on the SIB. It is a Vindicator for god sakes. And 3750 MC didn't seem that bad. But then I had to throw in 5 Mill c-bills to make it viable. Really? 3750 and all standard equipment?

But still I bought the latest hero, Sparky. Over 4k MC, or around 18 USD. Again all standard equipment. And it looks like it will take around 7 Mill to make playable.

That is total crap.

I am very disheartened by this turn of events. Previous HMs were for the most part plug and play. The past 2 are not even remotely close.

If the next hero comes out in the same fashion I will pass. And it may be some time before I decide to refill my MC coffers.

Those pointing out that this is lore based are 100% correct and honestly we felt the "value" for the customers was mostly in being true to lore in these situations. This is not the first person that has responded like this recently so it seems we have made an improper judgement on what the community wants. On the next hero mechs we will look for options on upgrading them rather than making them true to lore.

Stop me now if you feel the other way. Thanks for this input.

[Duke Nedo]

Just do your best to put them on par with the other variants. Heroes shouldn't be the best obviously, then you get the p2w discussion all over, but it also feels pointless if they are clearly the worst variant for the chassi, like for example Pretty baby, which is just a 9M with negative quirks and one hardpoint less = a pure downgrade.

[Christof Romulus]

Russ Bullock, on 09 September 2014 - 11:55 PM, said:

Those pointing out that this is lore based are 100% correct and honestly we felt the "value" for the customers was mostly in being true to lore in these situations. This is not the first person that has responded like this recently so it seems we have made an improper judgement on what the community wants. On the next hero mechs we will look for options on upgrading them rather than making them true to lore.

Stop me now if you feel the other way. Thanks for this input.

Greetings,

Please keep in mind that at the moment, PGI can't win on the forums. If mechs are released that are true to lore, then people are going to cry they aren't powerful enough. If mechs are released for MC that are powerful, then the forums will be alight with people claiming that the game is pay-to-win.

You are currently riding a very fine line that is really difficult to tread, and I think that the way that PGI has been doing this up to this point has been correct: Hero mechs from the lore should be released as they are from lore.

With that, I have to explain that the issue isn't that the mechs aren't good enough - but it's that they aren't good enough for the COST of the mech. 18 dollars, then an additional 2.5 mil cbill tax (due to lore mechs using single heatsinks) plus a mechbay is a bit steep, honestly. Perhaps PGI should adopt the policy that any hero mechs released (true to lore of course) that come with single heatsinks also come with a 1.5 mil cbill bundle - this will satisfy releasing cannon mechs from tabletop, while not being too punishing to the player's wallet.

Oh, and lower the MC cost of hero mechs based on faction (IS vs Clan) and BATTLE VALUE - simply input the mech into a battle value calculator using the most "meta" builds to determine what the actual cost of the mech should be. For example, the Boar's Head shouldn't cost that much as a hero mech, while the Dragon's Slayer should cost a bit more, etc.

[Edit]
I was giving this a lot of thought today, and I am going to redact my statement regarding purchases of hero mechs that come with single heatsinks.

So, two things:
1. The OP is essentially saying that he wants his real money to produce results. This concept is ultimately playing into the pay-to-win side of gameplay and should be discouraged.
2. If hero mechs that came with standard heatsinks came with a monitary incentive (beyond the fact they are hero mechs that generate additional cbills already) it would play into a pay-to-win model. Why? Here's why: There are many mechs in the game that come with Standard heatsinks, and they're available for Cbills. If PGI were to grant a 1.5 mil cbill award with the purchase of any such mech with MC, then it would have to outright reduce the price of every Inner Sphere mech with single heatsinks by the same amount, or else it would be a form of PTW.

Edited by Christof Romulus, 10 September 2014 - 07:33 PM.

[Lexx]

Russ Bullock, on 09 September 2014 - 11:55 PM, said:

Those pointing out that this is lore based are 100% correct and honestly we felt the "value" for the customers was mostly in being true to lore in these situations. This is not the first person that has responded like this recently so it seems we have made an improper judgement on what the community wants. On the next hero mechs we will look for options on upgrading them rather than making them true to lore.

Stop me now if you feel the other way. Thanks for this input.

Elizander made the same suggestion in this thread that I made in another thread about the same topic. It's not that we don't want you to stay true to canon with hero mechs. We love that they are real canon heros. The problem is that when they are older (level 1 tech) hero mechs, it costs a lot of c-bills to upgrade them to make them competitive. Instead of upgrading them and changing them from lore, you could just add in c-bill packages along with them to cover the costs of the upgrades. That way you can be true to lore with the hero mechs and we won't have to deplete our "coffers" upgrading them.

[Naduk]

Russ Bullock, on 09 September 2014 - 11:55 PM, said:

Those pointing out that this is lore based are 100% correct and honestly we felt the "value" for the customers was mostly in being true to lore in these situations. This is not the first person that has responded like this recently so it seems we have made an improper judgement on what the community wants. On the next hero mechs we will look for options on upgrading them rather than making them true to lore.

Stop me now if you feel the other way. Thanks for this input.

i do not see the issue ted was making at all
half the fun of MWO is customizing your mechs and making it play your way
what is left for a player to do if a hero comes fully kitted out with no real room for upgrades or changes (ember for example)

nowhere ever was it stated that purchasing a mech with MC means you dont have to spend c-bills on it at all
every hero i buy is about 3 things
1. the unique hardpoint layout to mix it up from its normal models (Sparky, Jester, Wang, Oxide are perfect examples of this)
2. extra cbills , makes owning them just that bit nicer
3. unique paint, a love or hate thing for most, but a big influence on heros as most see the skins they have as extra value for their MC

these are the factors that make heros important
spending cbills on a mech after you buy it is a 100% natural part of the game

russ incase i was not clear , keep doing what you guys have been doing with heros , its awesome
oh and oxide needs 2 machine guns