175 replies to this topic

[focuspark]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

What PGI does with their money is none of your damn business. You aren't congress, you aren't the President and you certainly aren't an invester. You pay them for a service.. I for one am happy to have this game. It's lots of fun and very well done. Every game has it's share of bugs and glitches. Less QQ and more *pewpew* If you don't like it, don't play it. I know this will more than likely be flamed to hell but I had to give my 2 cents.

You're right, I'm more important: I'm a customer.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

i was thinking today.if what we have is information warfare, we should at least see what dead enemies were driving on the scoreboard midmatch.that would be valuable info.

[Thrillho]

Russ Bullock, on 09 September 2014 - 11:29 PM, said:

Well this wasn't very uplifting.
For me I feel like were starting fresh now.

Do you wanna start fresh? And I mean really start fresh?

Drop ghost heat and tabletop values, and try to balance this game on your spreadsheets. This isn't tabletop Battletech and should not be treated as such. You could have fixed Lurmageddon, poptarting, and broken brawling by simply adjusting dmg and armor values in a spreadsheet.

Take advice you were given literally years ago. Fix this game. It's not too late Russ...

[focuspark]

Russ Bullock, on 09 September 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

Yes it takes time I agree. For some the past 9 months might mean a lot. For you I guess not and that is 100% your prerogative.

We will continue working hard.

I'm concerned that you're missing what people are annoyed about. At least for me it's poorly implemented systems: ECM, Ghost Heat, Crit bonuses etc. Most of the game is good, these systems are downright confusing.

[Finster]

The problem is that PGI thinks everything is hunky dorey once CW is out.

Information warfare? ECM is broken. LRMs are broken. Scouting is pointless on these anemicly sized maps that were built for 4v4 or 8v8.

Role warfare? Where is it? It takes more than 3x4 to create role warfare. Game modes? We have Team Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch with a base, and Team Deathmatch with little bases.

'Mech warfare? I guess. It kind of got ruined when you did a bait n' switch on Clan purchasers with the massive nerfs they're getting now that they're available for c-bills. Admittedly, they were definitely pay2win, though. Either way, they've really only made the game worse in almost every aspect.

So yeah, when Community Warfare, the vaunted FOURTH PILLAR is finally released, I do kind of expect some of these features to be fleshed out to the level they were advertised during Closed Beta, instead of the minimum viable product that we have now.

[Brut4ce]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

The real problem with PGI isn't being slow to deliver content, their management of funds, or their business decisions... the REAL problem here is all of US the community.

You complain because they don't deliver content fast enough for you. How much time and money (yes time is money, wages are one of your highest operating costs in any business) have they had to spend to make changes that people in these forums have complained, whined, and QQ'd for. One of PGI's biggest mistakes is that they pay TOO much attention to their community and we end up with them trying to appease the vocal minority while the silent majority are left scratching their heads.

You complain about the order in which they release content. I want community warfare, no wait I want maps, no wait I want clans, no wait i want community warfare. We as the collective gaming community have rejected the traditional model of subscription based games, we want free to play. Well guess what? Free to play isn't free. It's going to cost somewhere. You know what PGI has to do before they work on implementing community warfare? They have to BRING IN REVENUE, and that may come in the form of a big clan release in order to get you to *gasp* spend real money on buying clan packs. How in the world can anyone play a free to play game and complain about pay to win. You do realise that if these guys don't come up with a way to separate you from your cash then there will not be a game to play right? You think developers and artists and servers are free.

What PGI does with their money is none of your damn business. You aren't congress, you aren't the President and you certainly aren't an invester. You pay them for a service.. I for one am happy to have this game. It's lots of fun and very well done. Every game has it's share of bugs and glitches. Less QQ and more *pewpew* If you don't like it, don't play it. I know this will more than likely be flamed to hell but I had to give my 2 cents.

Well.....i stand speechless...so I will just quote this.......

[Kain Demos]

Finster, on 11 September 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

The problem is that PGI thinks everything is hunky dorey once CW is out.

Information warfare? ECM is broken. LRMs are broken. Scouting is pointless on these anemicly sized maps that were built for 4v4 or 8v8.

Role warfare? Where is it? It takes more than 3x4 to create role warfare. Game modes? We have Team Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch with a base, and Team Deathmatch with little bases.

'Mech warfare? I guess. It kind of got ruined when you did a bait n' switch on Clan purchasers with the massive nerfs they're getting now that they're available for c-bills. Admittedly, they were definitely pay2win, though. Either way, they've really only made the game worse in almost every aspect.

So yeah, when Community Warfare, the vaunted FOURTH PILLAR is finally released, I do kind of expect some of these features to be fleshed out to the level they were advertised during Closed Beta, instead of the minimum viable product that we have now.

Good point on the maps, some of them are just comically small for 12v12.

Realistically we need at least 3x as many maps are there are now. The best solution to this (and continued map growth long term) is to release a map editor (like Starcraft) and let the fans do the work themselves. They can even make contests out of it with prizes--every quarter or so have a map contest with some tiered prizes for the winners and the winners maps get adopted after any changes/revisions internal testing determines are necessary are made.

To change them up some more they could then make weather variable on ALL maps--this could give them a bit more of a random feeling.

Example--If there is an open desert map in the future and is large and mostly flat and open (not a hilly/rocky or dune type desert) then when you drop with clear weather scouting may not be very neccessary (but flanking likely will). Such a map will probably be a snipe until you get close kind of map but imagine how different it would be to drop on the same map in the middle of a sandstorm with poor visibility and reduced sensor range?

I also would like to see some maps with tunnels/caves/narrow canyons/alleys that only a light or medium mech can fit into for some more variety.

Edited by Kain Thul, 11 September 2014 - 12:39 PM.

[PANZERKAT]

Finster, on 11 September 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

The problem is that PGI thinks everything is hunky dorey once CW is out.

Information warfare? ECM is broken. LRMs are broken. Scouting is pointless on these anemicly sized maps that were built for 4v4 or 8v8.

Role warfare? Where is it? It takes more than 3x4 to create role warfare. Game modes? We have Team Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch with a base, and Team Deathmatch with little bases.

'Mech warfare? I guess. It kind of got ruined when you did a bait n' switch on Clan purchasers with the massive nerfs they're getting now that they're available for c-bills. Admittedly, they were definitely pay2win, though. Either way, they've really only made the game worse in almost every aspect.

So yeah, when Community Warfare, the vaunted FOURTH PILLAR is finally released, I do kind of expect some of these features to be fleshed out to the level they were advertised during Closed Beta, instead of the minimum viable product that we have now.

Clan Pack wasn't a bait and switch. Anyone going into Clans thinking there wouldn't be numerous passes is either an idiot, ignorant or lying.

You paid for access to Clan mechs. There was no mention as to their ability in the game...which...like anything in an online game...every changing to suit the game.

[Ghogiel]

Yeah basically. We knew the TBR would be OP at release, prompting many to get one, then inevitable nerfing. Oldest trick.

[Garandos]

Just to add something, somewhat off-topic,

i feel i should say sorry to Russ at this point, about HOW i adressed him in my last posting here.

Ross should know by now the main reason, WHY i was so extremly upset with the situation, this threads topic and the (now rephrased) statement about the "Loyal customer".

Still no excuse to get low like i did, should respect anyone, even your "enemy".

So, well, im sorry for my choice of words, and my "tone" back there.

[EgoSlayer]

1453 R, on 11 September 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Heh...the recent Phase 2 design document, and Paul's uncharacteristic-but-extremely-welcome all-nighter in the feedback thread, bears me out pretty nicely*, actually. Only an organized 12-man can launch an attack on a world, and the defenders have to respond within two minutes. The only way for an organized response to an attack to happen within two minutes is if a defending team has the resources in manpower to have a hot-scramble 12-man doing absolutely nothing except sitting on their thumbs waiting to click in as a response to any attacks that turn up.

The notion of filling up against an unanswered attack with whatever randoms spot the thirty second window is pretty laughable. You're going to take twelve random puglies and throw them against an organized 12-man death squad, specifically kitted out for the precise map and game mode they'll be attacking? Those puglies will be pounded into metal shavings in short order.

Don't get me wrong, the proposed Invasion mode sounds like it could be a great deal of fun if you ever see two decently balanced teams against each other in it. I just don't see how singletons, Puglandians, or most anything that isn't a 50+ man heavily organized unit able to dictate those hot-scramble 12-man Wait Squads are going to be anything but disposable cannon fodder grinding to dust between the gears.

No, Paul's post doesn't bear out your ideas, quite the opposite. The only things that *require* a twelve man and/or a merc unit are 1) Declaring an attack on a planet, 2) Contract for the Defense of a planet.

So your perceptions of what was described are still wrong; once a planet is under siege it's open to public queues group and solo, further confirmed by:
http://mwomercs.com/...09#entry3715509
Are there problems with the Attack method and the '2' minute window? Sure it sounds poorly thought out to me since the defenders are then relegated to sitting in a 12 man lobby waiting for an attack. And what if nobody is contracted, or Joins the defense of the planet? Not enough details yet.

But, once it's underway it's a 3 day conquest so if the 12 man attack group gets matched against six 2 mans it will be a walk. Group and solo queues are not merging so it won't be 12 solos vs a 12 man, and there should be hundreds of battles that decide the outcome over the 3 days, not just that first match.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 12 September 2014 - 09:49 AM.

[1453 R]

EgoSlayer, on 12 September 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

No, Paul's post doesn't bear out your ideas, quite the opposite. The only things that *require* a twelve man and/or a merc unit are 1) Declaring an attack on a planet, 2) Contract for the Defense of a planet.

So your perceptions of what was described are still wrong; once a planet is under siege it's open to public queues group and solo, further confirmed by:
http://mwomercs.com/...09#entry3715509
Are there problems with the Attack method and the '2' minute window? Sure it sounds poorly thought out to me since the defenders are then relegated to sitting in a 12 man lobby waiting for an attack. And what if nobody is contracted, or Joins the defense of the planet? Not enough details yet.

But, once it's underway it's a 3 day conquest so if the 12 man attack group gets matched against six 2 mans it will be a walk. Group and solo queues are not merging so it won't be 12 solos vs a 12 man, and there should be hundreds of battles that decide the outcome over the 3 days, not just that first match.

All right, let’s be realistic here, eh Slayer?

First of all, ‘the group and solo queues’ don’t exist in Commodity Warfare. Those are the Puglandia drops which are in a different section of the game completely. The Commodity Warfare panel is effectively its own separate launcher for its own separate game, which just so happens to use the same inventory and backend as the regular Puglandia queues you guys are all so hot-n-eager to get rid of.

Second of all: if you want to effectively participate in Commodity Warfare, and not just slop around between the cracks doing pretty much the same thing you do in Puglandia except less often, against tougher enemies, and for much slimmer rewards, you need to be part of a unit that can initiate an attack, or part of a unit that can contract for defense. Sure, absolutely randoms can help plug in the gaps! But that’s all they’re doing, all they’re good for – filling in the holes in everyone else’s games. The ultracomps and the massive long-standing BattleTech unit-communities who’ve been pushing so hard for CW don’t need solos, don’t want solos, and would in fact almost certainly get behind hard-coded in-game rules forcing anyone who’s not part of an in-game unit to stay out of CW entirely and restrict their attentions to Puglandia.

You’re part of a unit yourself, aren’t you Slayer? I thought you were, anyways. If your unit contracts for the defense of a planet, are you really going to leave it in the hands of randoms? Or are you going to make sure that as many hands as possible are on deck if your world gets attacked for the entirety of that three-day period, defending your claim with your own hands because you do not trust, desire, or barely even tolerate random scrubs too stupid/antisocial/foul-smelling/whatever-it-is-we-are-this-time to join a unit and Partake Of The True BattleTech Experience™.

And that’s their prerogative. Organized units have been on the short end of the stick for a long time, and CW was always supposed to be their thing. I’m more than happy to see them finally getting their thing, I’m just also going to call people on their bullscheissen when they say that CW is for Everyone, and also their corresponding demands that after this initial CW rollout is complete, CW IS ALL PIRANHA SHOULD EVER WORK ON EVER. I’ve seen way too many people say things like “we don’t need any more new ‘Mechs in this game, ever”, or “What comes after CW? More CW”.

I’m not about to sit here and let the CW crowd try and browbeat the rest of the community into forgetting that IW is in a completely unacceptable state, that the U.I. is garbage, that jump jets are nigh-useless, and that there are a million and one other features, fixes, and flashies in this game that need fixing, introducing, or reintroducing because the only thing their own personal selves care about is CW, more CW, ALL DA CW. A balance of resources is required. CW needs its share, and right now it needs the lion’s share because it hasn’t gotten any share for too long, but after things’ve caught up?

CW can fight for dev time with UI fixes, backend optimization, and fixing friggin’ collision already. On top of everything else this game needs done. You guys don’t get to monopolize the entire game forever, no matter how much you would like to.

[EgoSlayer]

1453 R, on 12 September 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

All right, let’s be realistic here, eh Slayer?

<snip for brevity>

I am being realistic. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I don't see CW as being that dramatically different from Realm Vs Realm combats other MMOs have which are heavily populated with PUGs.

[SmithMPBT]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

The real problem with PGI isn't being slow to deliver content, their management of funds, or their business decisions... the REAL problem here is all of US the community.

You complain because they don't deliver content fast enough for you. How much time and money (yes time is money, wages are one of your highest operating costs in any business) have they had to spend to make changes that people in these forums have complained, whined, and QQ'd for. One of PGI's biggest mistakes is that they pay TOO much attention to their community and we end up with them trying to appease the vocal minority while the silent majority are left scratching their heads.

You complain about the order in which they release content. I want community warfare, no wait I want maps, no wait I want clans, no wait i want community warfare. We as the collective gaming community have rejected the traditional model of subscription based games, we want free to play. Well guess what? Free to play isn't free. It's going to cost somewhere. You know what PGI has to do before they work on implementing community warfare? They have to BRING IN REVENUE, and that may come in the form of a big clan release in order to get you to *gasp* spend real money on buying clan packs. How in the world can anyone play a free to play game and complain about pay to win. You do realise that if these guys don't come up with a way to separate you from your cash then there will not be a game to play right? You think developers and artists and servers are free.

What PGI does with their money is none of your damn business. You aren't congress, you aren't the President and you certainly aren't an invester. You pay them for a service.. I for one am happy to have this game. It's lots of fun and very well done. Every game has it's share of bugs and glitches. Less QQ and more *pewpew* If you don't like it, don't play it. I know this will more than likely be flamed to hell but I had to give my 2 cents.

Battered Wife Syndrome.

Its not your fault.

Edited by SmithMPBT, 12 September 2014 - 01:33 PM.

[Codeine Radick]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 09 September 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

What's the name of that syndrome people get towards their abusers?

Stockholm Syndrome

[Kirkland Langue]

Russ Bullock, on 09 September 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

Yes it takes time I agree. For some the past 9 months might mean a lot. For you I guess not and that is 100% your prerogative.

We will continue working hard.

To be honest, time isn't the issue: results are what people want to see. In fact, the longer it takes to get those results - the worse things will get.

We all want MWO to succeed, and I suspect that many of us liked what we saw in the Dev Diaries back in closed Beta. I warned way back then that people were focusing far too much on the arena battles and not looking at the strategic portion as being of much greater priority for development. And I still believe that you guys completely dropped the ball by shoving CW so far down the list of priorities.