125 replies to this topic

[Xarian]

Putting in mech limitations has been confirmed to be IS vs Clan only, however I think that limiting IS mechs initially by faction is a good idea.

What do I mean? Well, if you're working for a faction, you get several 'core' variants of different Mechs available. As you fight, you build up salvage and reputation with that faction. To unlock variants, you either spend salvage to build that mech, or spend reputation with a faction to purchase that mech - not every faction could sell every variant, and the mechs available would depend on whatever planets you had been to recently.

Salvage could be separated by chassis. Reputation could spent with the main faction, or you could trade it on the "black market" to unlock variants at a higher cost in reputation - but these variants would change over time and be partially randomized. Mercenaries and Lone Wolves would have some small discounts on the black market, but more importantly they could earn reputation easily from different factions without having to resort to desertion/switching teams (which should incur a large penalty to the reputation for that faction).

Eventually, Clans would go through the same treatment. However, right now there aren't enough Clan variants to make it workable. Omnipods would have to be treated much the same, since they largely make variants obsolete.

Edited by Xarian, 11 September 2014 - 07:18 AM.

[Zyllos]

Limitation of ever being able to field a certain mech might be a bad idea.

Instead, once logistics comes into play, fielding a mech that doesn't belong to your faction, not owning the battlemech facility, ect, should put huge strains on fielding it.

This is what I hope the C-Bill coffers will be used for, a resource for fielding certain mechs.

[PANZERKAT]

Faction specific was pretty wide ope. There are only more common numbers due to certain Houses having certain active factories. The Houses have been at war for so long that all mechs are represented in the standing armies of them all.

http://www.catalystd...iewUnitList.asp

Anything else is PGI magic.

I am a supporter of only advantages and bonuses, never negatives for playing outside your House. You'll see people flock to the factions with the Meta mechs if they aren't shared across the board. If they planned to eventually have a timeline ticker for "seasons" before a reset, which would be cool, they could attach an EARLY MID LATE tag to mechs where using a LATE mech in EARLY gave you negatives to certain gains like cbills and loyalty due to being in a prototype mech or and EARLY mech in EARLY OR MID, during the MID time frame getting bonuses to gains.

That's about the extent of negatives and advantages that I could come up with that is fair and would impact what we see on the battlefield in any way without a faction list being too heavy handed and blocking mechs out completely.

Edited by KOMMISSAR KITTY, 11 September 2014 - 08:38 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

God I love that list!

[PANZERKAT]

I thought it said "jewunitlist" at the end of the link haha

[KraftySOT]

Viktor Drake, on 11 September 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

I don't understand why they would even put faction limitations on mechs.

First, there is nothing in lore that supports it.

You should be banned for that. Are you insane?

In the lore thats really all there is until 8-10 years AFTER the clan invasion.

In 3025 there was two ways to have a mech in a houses army. The guy is a noble and owns that mech, and most likely didnt leave his own Houses space to buy it...so if youre in House Davion, you buy a mech from one of the factions in that space. Or two, you train a pilot and put him in a mech that was built in a factory you own.

This is why theres no Ravens in the Lyran Roster. And no Dragons in the Free Worlds roster. They dont make them, theyre too far away to ship.

By 3050 the situation is barely improved. Though two large wars have spread around some of those mechs to other houses and to merc groups.

The lore ENTIRELY revolves around the Inner Sphere being a post apocalyptic wreck right up until Comstar takes hold, opens the flood gates, and names a Star Lord.

:facepalm:

Banned dude. Banned.

Itd be like one of the English Tudor Houses courtiers, buying a spanish Galleon for their navy.

Doesnt happen.

You used ships of the line, because thats what your House builds. You can buy stuff from Scotland, Ireland, Calais, maybe even Anjou...but you surely dont buy things from half way across the world when youre antagonistic with the people youd be buying it from.

The lore is completely based on earth history, mostly the pre victorian age right after the fall of the Holy Roman Empire.

God lord what the hell is wrong with you people.

Do you actually read the Battletech lore or just make this stuff up as you go along?

[PANZERKAT]

He's kind of right about there being no reason for it in lore. Each House technically has access to all but the most advanced mechs, which lay in ComStars bays, until the new factories start rolling again. Those newly designed mechs, yes I could see them being restricted in the lore. The classic mechs were in such abundance that many of your enemies mechs are salvaged off the battlefield and put into your own units. That's why people should get more of an advantage than a wrist slap for deviating.

Then we get to Merc units who purchased directly from Houses OR were granted them as payment or gifts for jobs well done. Mechs are whores. They get around.

Germany and Russia weren't at war for 2 years before the Germans started using full units captured with Russian tanks and gear. The Russians went one better and started designed tank destroyers with salvaged tank hulls. Imagine what salvage is obtained after a few hundred years of conflict? A Steiner company or lance of Dragons, though terrible, wouldn't be odd.

Edited by KOMMISSAR KITTY, 11 September 2014 - 08:57 AM.

[KraftySOT]

Not to mention some of the mechs we have now in the faction roster (google it, already up, ive sold some mechs and bought new ones for Laio, just how it goes if you want to CW) arent even being built by those houses in the lore, just to shore up some "meta" descripencies.

There is no Banshee factory in Cappellan space.

There is no Battlemaster factory, anywhere, in the IS. None. Zero. Doesnt exist. No one builds them. The only people to build them after comstar releases the plans, is the FedCom before the split, in like 3062.

All the battlemasters in the roster previous to that, are super rare mechs that survived countless battles and repairs. None of them mounted star league era weapons that in some cases (though not realized once FASA lost the IP) were better than clan weapons anymore. Hell in the board game, a 3025 Battlemaster was going to end up punching his opponent to death or kicking them, because they lacked the firepower to do any serious damage before closing with an enemy you cant run away from because youre so slow. Its a slug match.

They started to refit old ones, and comstar ones, on Twycross by 3050...but they churned out less than 10 by the time it was annihilated by the clans.

[Tezcatli]

I see a lot of talk about repair costs being thrown around. If that's true. Great. I really like the idea of repair costs being in at least part of the game. Also gives people who lose too often a reason to return to the public queue. While also imparting the feeling of battlefield attrition.

I personally am completely fine with faction specific mechs only if you're not playing a merc. It makes sense from the lore. And since they've said CW is supposed to be more about providing a Battletech experience. I'm all thumbs up for it.

Edited by Tezcatli, 11 September 2014 - 08:57 AM.

[KraftySOT]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 11 September 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

He's kind of right about there being no reason for it in lore. Each House technically has access to all but the most advanced mechs, which lay in ComStars bays, until the new factories start rolling again. Those newly designed mechs, yes I could see them being restricted in the lore. The classic mechs were in such abundance that many of your enemies mechs are salvaged off the battlefield and put into your own units. That's why people should get more of an advantage than a wrist slap for deviating.

Then we get to Merc units who purchased directly from Houses OR were granted them as payment or gifts for jobs well done. Mechs are whores. They get around.

Germany and Russia weren't at war for 2 years before the Germans started using full units captured with Russian tanks and gear. The Russians went one better and started designed tank destroyers with salvaged tank hulls. Imagine what salvage is obtained after a few hundred years of conflict?

This is pretty off. Comstar didnt let anyone have anything, until after the clans showed up, and then only at the behest of a single guy.

The only other times was shipping accidents like comstar shipping Star League era Battlemasters to Kurita:

Federated Suns[color=#000000], themselves lacking any [/color]BattleMaster[color=#000000] factories.[/color]^[2][8][color=#000000] By fortuitous accident the [/color]Draconis Combine[color=#000000]also came into possession of a large number of [/color]BattleMasters[color=#000000] when a hapless [/color]ComStar[color=#000000] [/color]Precentor[color=#000000], intending to ship unmodified versions of advanced [/color]BattleMasters[color=#000000] to [/color]Com Guard[color=#000000] units, sent them to the Combine instead. These[/color]BattleMasters[color=#000000] served as excellent command vehicles during the [/color]War of 3039[color=#000000].[/color]^[10]

[PANZERKAT]

I would welcome repair and rearm again. Mono missile boats will be spending a pretty penny for their thousands of missiles every match.

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

This is pretty off. Comstar didnt let anyone have anything, until after the clans showed up, and then only at the behest of a single guy.

The only other times was shipping accidents like comstar shipping Star League era Battlemasters to Kurita:

Federated Suns[color=#000000], themselves lacking any [/color]BattleMaster[color=#000000] factories.[/color]^[2][8][color=#000000] By fortuitous accident the [/color]Draconis Combine[color=#000000]also came into possession of a large number of [/color]BattleMasters[color=#000000] when a hapless [/color]ComStar[color=#000000] [/color]Precentor[color=#000000], intending to ship unmodified versions of advanced [/color]BattleMasters[color=#000000] to [/color]Com Guard[color=#000000] units, sent them to the Combine instead. These[/color]BattleMasters[color=#000000] served as excellent command vehicles during the [/color]War of 3039[color=#000000].[/color]^[10]

War of 3039. ComStar gave the DCMS a large number of Star League era mechs without the tech because they were hard up against the wall due to Davion and Steiner tag team.

Edited by KOMMISSAR KITTY, 11 September 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[KraftySOT]

The total number of mech factories in 3030, was less than 50.

Each one only generally mechs one type of mech. So considering the volume of types, theres a ton of mechs no one builds and no one has.

No one had a Pheonix LAM, no one had a Marauder II, no one had a King Crab, no one had an Annihilator...the few of those that still existed, were in comstars hands.

No noble owned them, unless his family had owned them for over 400 years. Which is possible, but also very unlikely.

Remember in the IS there are two types of mech pilots. Nobles, and enlisted. Enlisted get what is built. Or bought. And generally you never bought anything more than a jump or two away because that was expensive, and NO ONE builds jump ships.

[Bishop Steiner]

Elizander, on 11 September 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

Russ Bullock, on 11 September 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:


No. Let me know if I did blow it in the town hall, but I certainly meant IS and Clans - not down to the faction level.

yeah kinda disappointed, actually. I wanna see Fedcoms in Commandos and Firestarters, not Ravens and Jenners. Kuritans bringing Dragons, K2s, Jenners and AS7-Ks. Purple DoDo Birds in Awesomes and Orions.

Obviously it should not be forced exclusivity, but there should be rewards and such to encourage use of faction appropriate mechs.

[KraftySOT]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 11 September 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

I would welcome repair and rearm again. Mono missile boats will be spending a pretty penny for their thousands of missiles every match.



War of 3039. ComStar gave the DCMS a large number of Star League era mechs without the tech because they were hard up against the wall due to Davion and Steiner tag team.

Exactly. No one builds these things. You dont have them unless comstar gives them to you, by accident or otherwise, which is rare, and those mechs also immediately went into battle and 50% were destroyed...or some random noble goes out to the peripherary and finds a cache ala Crescent Hawks.

[PANZERKAT]

Well someone has to own their mechs or there wouldn't be any merc units. As it end sup..there are many merc units.

[KraftySOT]

These are all SL mechs that no one has in their rosters in 3050:

[color=#000000]- Mercury (MCY-99)[/color]
[color=#000000]- Lynx (LNX-9Q) [/color]
[color=#000000]- Spartan (SPT-N2)[/color]
[color=#000000]- Wolverine (WVR-7H)[/color]
[color=#000000]- Phoenix Hawk (PXH-1b and PXH-1c)[/color]
[color=#000000]- Shogun (SHG-2F)[/color]
[color=#000000]- Thunder Hawk (TDK-7X)[/color]
[color=#000000]- Rifleman II (RFL-3N-2)[/color]
[color=#000000]- Battlemaster (BLR-1Gb)

None of those are operated by a house in our timeline.

Though id love to a see a Rifleman II

Here:[/color]

http://bg.battletech...hp?topic=1219.0

88 page PDF about halfway down, will tell you whats available to every faction in 3050.

[Chrithu]

The faction limitation as far as I understand is ONLY Clan vs. IS. So clan faction only can ride clan mechs but not necessarily only mechs that faction would use. Vice versa an IS faction can use ALL IS mechs not just those that belong to the faction.

[KraftySOT]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 11 September 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

Well someone has to own their mechs or there wouldn't be any merc units. As it end sup..there are many merc units.

Mercs, other than three huge units that were given planets...all station out where theyre a hop and a skip from caches. Also, in the lore, mercs dont use mechs 99% of the time. They use bloody tanks.

Obviously you dont know the lore if you think theres merc units other than the Kell Hounds, Death Legion, and Highlanders, with mechs. And two of those have what they have because of comstar and clan intervention. The other because they bloody well own a mech factory.

[Bishop Steiner]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

You should be banned for that. Are you insane?

In the lore thats really all there is until 8-10 years AFTER the clan invasion.

In 3025 there was two ways to have a mech in a houses army. The guy is a noble and owns that mech, and most likely didnt leave his own Houses space to buy it...so if youre in House Davion, you buy a mech from one of the factions in that space. Or two, you train a pilot and put him in a mech that was built in a factory you own.

This is why theres no Ravens in the Lyran Roster. And no Dragons in the Free Worlds roster. They dont make them, theyre too far away to ship.

By 3050 the situation is barely improved. Though two large wars have spread around some of those mechs to other houses and to merc groups.

The lore ENTIRELY revolves around the Inner Sphere being a post apocalyptic wreck right up until Comstar takes hold, opens the flood gates, and names a Star Lord.

:facepalm:

Banned dude. Banned.

Itd be like one of the English Tudor Houses courtiers, buying a spanish Galleon for their navy.

Doesnt happen.

You used ships of the line, because thats what your House builds. You can buy stuff from Scotland, Ireland, Calais, maybe even Anjou...but you surely dont buy things from half way across the world when youre antagonistic with the people youd be buying it from.

The lore is completely based on earth history, mostly the pre victorian age right after the fall of the Holy Roman Empire.

God lord what the hell is wrong with you people.

Do you actually read the Battletech lore or just make this stuff up as you go along?

Actually, a large part of the British Navy was made up of captured French, Spanish and American ships, renamed and repurposed for HMS.

And to a less extent, that is how the Successor States operated. The reason Marik didn't field many Dragons, and Kurita many Awesomes (though in Warrior En Garde, it was indeed a Kuritan Awesome dueling Ardan Sortek's Victor.)? No shared border, so they never fought. And thus they didn't salvage each others units. What limited each house WITH their captured goods was access to factory parts for maintaining them. But half the mechs in the 3025 TRO had not been in production for centuries and were still used, generally with jury rigged parts.

So yes, each house did indeed have other "faction specific Mechs" in the TO&Es, whether salvaged, or procured through Merc Service, defectors, etc. But they were usually in insignificant quantities, and much harder to maintain, and lower priority for the Quartermaster, than readily available "official" house Designs.

[KraftySOT]

I mean the Death Legion doesnt even count...its got battle armor back in 3039...thats just ridiculous post FASA stuff. And Stackpole didnt do the universe any favors.