1234 replies to this topic

[Apnu]

Rallog, on 11 September 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

I'd have to say that a good chunk of this discussion has absolutely nothing to do with cyber-bullying. That is such a crap term anymore thrown out in places it doesn't belong. There has been a VERY small number of posts that are anywhere even on the same continent with bullying.

This discussion? In this thread? Not so much. Mostly people have gloated over the shitpile PGI stepped into and have been discussing said shitpile. That's fine to do. And I notice PGI has allowed this thread to go on 56+ pages so far w/out bans or reprisals. So they too, feel its legit.

Have players, on these forums, advocated trying to financially ruin PGI and PGI's reputation? Yes. Have they been doing that on Reddit, twitter, Facebook and other places? Yes.

There are a group of people online who are demanding PGI create the game a certain way, else they will do whatever they can to destroy PGI and its staff. That's cyber-bullying, and PGI is enduring that.

All of this is a two way street, If people want PGI to listen to them, then they have to phrase their requests in a way that makes PGI receptive. This is social engineering 101 stuff.

[Jestunhi]

Lukoi, on 11 September 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Hey guys Im late to the party.

What exactly did Nikko (and/or other PGI employees) do that violated the ToS on reddit? And are we talking linkable, viewable missteps or is it conspiracy theory conjecture kind of stuff? Im at work, looking at this on phone and sixty pages of disjointed discussions are impossible to paw thru to find the golden nuggets. Can someone pm me the bottom line here please?

Quote

Please don't

• 
  Take moderation positions in a community where your profession, employment, or biases could pose a direct conflict of interest to the neutral and user driven nature of reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette

Check out the Transverse page and you can see they have removed every single discussion about the game (or indeed anything else) and it is nothing more than a series of links to articles / videos posted by Niko: http://www.reddit.com/r/Transverse/

You can also see from the moderator list on the right-hand side that it is 100% moderated by PGI.

You can still access the removed posts if you have the URL, e.g. http://www.reddit.co..._stretch_goals/

But if you access the subreddit itself the only thing accessible is PGI-approved advertising.

[RussianWolf]

wanderer, on 11 September 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

It's that place where all the MWO news generally comes from first, along with Twitter- rather than the MWO Forum Ghetto.

Likely still will be. http://www.reddit.com/r/OutreachHPG/ and it's Islandia-based cousin http://www.reddit.com/r/MWO/

you kids and new fangled things..... lol

[Ultraviper]

I paid $120 to ruin this game. mission accomplished!

How is this Drewjitsu goon mastermind "responsible" anyway? Did he hack into PGI accounts, set up the reddit, then spam advertisements? Or did he hack into reddit admin accounts and ban them that way?

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Lukoi, on 11 September 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Hey guys Im late to the party.

What exactly did Nikko (and/or other PGI employees) do that violated the ToS on reddit? And are we talking linkable, viewable missteps or is it conspiracy theory conjecture kind of stuff? Im at work, looking at this on phone and sixty pages of disjointed discussions are impossible to paw thru to find the golden nuggets. Can someone pm me the bottom line here please?

Made a sub reddit with himself and PGI accounts as moderators of said channel; and moderated any negative post into oblivion in the usual Niko style.

This is against reddit rules so they were Shadowbanned.

TLDR reddit did to them what they do to us here since Niko was hired.

[Gwaihir]

Ultraviper, on 11 September 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

I paid $120 to ruin this game. mission accomplished!

How is this Drewjitsu goon mastermind "responsible" anyway? Did he hack into PGI accounts, set up the reddit, then spam advertisements? Or did he hack into reddit admin accounts and ban them that way?

He's a goon, so, both.

[Kekrebos]

Apnu, on 11 September 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

This discussion? In this thread? Not so much. Mostly people have gloated over the shitpile PGI stepped into and have been discussing said shitpile. That's fine to do. And I notice PGI has allowed this thread to go on 56+ pages so far w/out bans or reprisals. So they too, feel its legit.

Have players, on these forums, advocated trying to financially ruin PGI and PGI's reputation? Yes. Have they been doing that on Reddit, twitter, Facebook and other places? Yes.

There are a group of people online who are demanding PGI create the game a certain way, else they will do whatever they can to destroy PGI and its staff. That's cyber-bullying, and PGI is enduring that.

All of this is a two way street, If people want PGI to listen to them, then they have to phrase their requests in a way that makes PGI receptive. This is social engineering 101 stuff.

Actually I'd like you to quote those posts you're talking about. I know there are a few in here that are not pretty, but they are a very small minority. Most of the posts have been "reap what you sow" posts. Also a good bit of "told you so" and some gloating.

Have players been trying to financially ruin PGI and PGI's reputation? No, PGI is doing that to PGI, which is the whole point of all these replies.

Have they been demanding PGI create the game a certain way? Yes, we all want to see the game be a success. Input is being given.

Have they said they will destroy PGI if they don't? No. Absolutely no. They may say they will likely fail if they don't listen.

I think you are either reading way in between the lines on posts or putting a lot of words where they aren't.

I know there have been a few pretty toxic posts, but not the majority.

Edited by Rallog, 11 September 2014 - 08:14 AM.

[Apnu]

miliardo, on 11 September 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

Wait, wait wait what??!

Is there any proof of this, that they redirected funds and programming hours from MW:O to design that Travesty of the game they call Transverse ?

I highly doubt they diverted any "funds" from MWO for Transverse. They could have been using profits (they are a for-profit enterprise after all) to fund what development was done. They may have found other VC from a core group of private investors, taken out business loans or Bryan may have been developing the game in his own spare time.

All of which is far more likely than diverting MWO's budget to Transverse. That's bad business and PGI's been around for 14 years. If they had that habit, they would have died out years ago and never would have take on this project.

Anybody suggesting they used MWO budget monies for Transverse is shoveling FUD.

[Avalerion]

Here are the particulars for those interested on specifically why all PGI staff accounts were shadowbanned.

Quote

your access to reddit


Without advance notice and at any time, we may, for violations of this agreement or for any other reason we choose: (1) suspend your access to reddit, (2) suspend or terminate Your Account or reddit gold membership, and/or (3) remove any of your User Content from reddit

I'll just state this first.

Quote

moderators

Moderating a subreddit is an unofficial, voluntary position. We reserve the right to revoke that position for any user at any time. If you choose to moderate a subreddit, you agree to the following:[/color]

• You may not enter into any form of agreement on behalf of reddit, or the subreddit which you moderate, without our written approval.
  
• You may not perform moderation actions in return for any form of compensation or favor from third-parties.
  
• When you receive notice that there is content that violates this user agreement on subreddits you moderate, you agree to remove it.

http://www.reddit.co...i/useragreement



Ignoring for the moment Reddit admins can do whatever they want in regards to revoking or approving moderators and user accounts, being a paid member of a company and a forum moderator is plainly against the rules. I am aware there are other subs that have openly company affiliated accounts in moderator positions. But Reddit has likely not received any complaints for aggressive moderating on those subs.

Also.

Quote

NOT OK: Sharing links with your friends or coworkers and asking them to vote.

http://www.reddit.com/rules

May or may not have happened. But when you have multiple accounts from the same company up voting the same content on a company run sub it's difficult to tell from a Reddit admin point of view if that is legitimate behaviour or not.

And lastly.

Quote

Please don't
Take moderation positions in a community where your profession, employment, or biases could pose a direct conflict of interest to the neutral and user driven nature of reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette


While reddiquette itself are not hard rules that triggers admin action, the actions taken by PGI accounts are clearly against the spirit of Reddit.

Edited by Avalerion, 11 September 2014 - 08:22 AM.

[DivineCoffeeBinge]

Ultraviper, on 11 September 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

I paid $120 to ruin this game. mission accomplished!

How is this Drewjitsu goon mastermind "responsible" anyway? Did he hack into PGI accounts, set up the reddit, then spam advertisements? Or did he hack into reddit admin accounts and ban them that way?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that he said "Hmm, PGI seems to be breaking Reddit's rules here. Hey, Reddit? Check it out, PGI seems to be breaking your rules. What's that? Shadowbanning? Huh, I guess I did my good deed for the day."

But, you know, he's a filthy GEWN so clearly it's a long-standing grudge and massive vendetta, probably involving Machiavellian schemes and long-hidden plots and more twists and turns than you could count because Goons hate Niko, or something.

(disclaimer: I am also a Goon. Feel free to proclaim my posts - which I've tried to make rational and reasonable and all - as just another facet of the Goon Master Plan To Destroy Everyone's Fun; believe it or not, it won't be the first time I've been accused of such)

[Joseph Mallan]

Skunk Wolf, on 11 September 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

He's going to be fired tomorrow anyway (Friday). I wonder who they will get to replace Niko on monday?

[miliardo]

MarsAtlas, on 11 September 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

Russ said in the Town Hall that they started working on Transverse in January of 2014.

Edit: And in twelve hours, this thread's view count doubles to 72,000. Hottest thread in MWO history right here, built entirely on animosity. Really says something doesn't it?

wwiiogre, on 11 September 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

Ekman stated they used PGI staff to start working on Transverse in 2012. So instead of working on CW, they worked on another game.

So yeah, according to PGI this is true. Can we verify it, not sure. Do we need to once they admit it. No, we do not.

Chris

Unbelievable...so they lied to us all the time..and there they were telling us how understaffed they are... Well of course you are ******* understaffed when you are developing 2 games simultaneously....someone has to sue them for not delivering on time...there has to be some form of legal protection for consumers. After all we paid and they broke all of their promises.

[Yiphyin]

My beef with Transverse is terrible timing. I think having MWO be stable, four pillars complete, etc would have been the time to start on a second project. Announcing the second project when they did was a PR nightmare considering how little they have to show on their Transverse site. It's like they locked a single digital artist guy in a closet Milton-style and told him to make a game for them.

Stretch goals could have been named better.. "$2m - Combat" makes people think "You.. aren't going to put combat in the game unless we reach 2 million?" when it's really a stretch goal for PvP.. which means I assume they had -some- PvE concept they didn't show anyone.

As it is, Transverse seems completely dead. This is going to force them to come back to MWO and eat some crow.

[Ken Fury]

And a single Goon actually warned Niko that it would end with an empty subreddit. Though I confess that I didn't see THIS coming.



Also: http://themittani.co...l-transreversal

AND
Hi to everyone from the Antares Scorpions.

Edited by Tank Boy Ken, 11 September 2014 - 08:25 AM.

[Bilbo]

MarsAtlas, on 11 September 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

...
Edit: And in twelve hours, this thread's view count doubles to 72,000. Hottest thread in MWO history right here, built entirely on animosity. Really says something doesn't it?

True, it says the thread is quite an amusing read.

[DeathofSelf]

Thronde, on 10 September 2014 - 10:44 PM, said:

Pretty much.

I was looking for this last night! I'm glad someone posted it, it so perfectly sums up the situation.

[Apnu]

Rallog, on 11 September 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

Actually I'd like you to quote those posts you're talking about. I know there are a few in here that are not pretty, but they are a very small minority. Most of the posts have been "reap what you sow" posts. Also a good bit of "told you so" and some gloating.

Have players been trying to financially ruin PGI and PGI's reputation? No, PGI is doing that to PGI, which is the whole point of all these replies.

Have they been demanding PGI create the game a certain way? Yes, we all want to see the game be a success. Input is being given.

Have they said they will destroy PGI if they don't? No. Absolutely no. They may say they will likely fail if they don't listen.

I think you are either reading way in between the lines on posts or putting a lot of words where they aren't.

I know there have been a few pretty toxic posts, but not the majority.

They are comments made to me by players in 2013, I have 13 pages of history to search. I have them in there. But I'm not wasting my time digging them up. You can mine the forums here and find comments in the feedback threads like this everywhere.

And as I said in my previous post. THIS THREAD is not bullying PGI. And, like I already said, PGI doesn't think so either as this thread continues w/out CoC violations.

But go over on Reddit and you will see it. Take a spin around Twitter and you will see it. People in /r/mwo are actively trying to generate negative press for PGI to destroy them.

[Blacksoul1987]

There most certainly are people that deserve to be banned, and many users could stand to be more considerate when criticizing, but really 3rd party sites should be off limits. Let people vent, sometimes it may be hurtful but you gotta endure the storm else you will just embarrass yourselves.

[wanderer]

I'd be tempted to be a bad person just to hear "You're baaaaaanned!" in his Sonic voice.

Quote

Unbelievable...

Much like Australia, Islandia has some pretty friendly blokes and shelias, unless it's related to some kind of MWO failstorm. Have a coconut, mate?

Edited by wanderer, 11 September 2014 - 08:36 AM.

[Gwaihir]

You know what the best way to shut down toxic complainers is? Prove them idiots with your actions, by delivering what you say you're going to do. If cut off at the knees like that, they become just what they should be: Fringe crazies.

Back in 2012, that's pretty much what they were. A fringe that was rightfully drowned out as wrong. Only through consistent actions has the tone and general feeling changed.

Edited by Gwaihir, 11 September 2014 - 08:33 AM.