1234 replies to this topic

[X1Viper]

PGI, look at this thread. Don't just skim; absorb it. Digest it. This is a collection of your staunchest supporters. Your most hardrcore, highest-paying, longtime fanbase. It's in almost 100% rebellion against you. This can't be "a few bad apples". This is a direct result of your actions. Dissolve your company and give this IP to someone who can do it justice.

[Bunkka]

My high-school buddy and current roommate has been into the BattleTech universe as long as I have known him. I am pretty easy going, and tend to be interested in what my friends are interested in, so he often pulled me into the game.

He was eager to share his hobby. We played tabletop a bit, I ended up getting and painting my own mechs. When we played, though, it reminded me of playing Stratego, HeroQuest or M:tG with my younger sisters. I wanted to play the game badly, but my sisters were very young and essentially clueless as to how to play. I would try to teach them, and even help them "beat" me to show them how to win or let them feel as if they had won hoping they would get hooked as I did. But as for my roommate, even though I was not well versed in the rules or how to play well, he was just happy to play the game, even with my constant interruptions and questions.

I enjoyed reading through the sourcebooks, technical readouts, and rulebooks that he had many of. He has a good sized library of Battletech stuff, which he was always happy to discuss. We sometimes discussed the engineering side of things, which I found very interesting.

Fast forward a bit and we are playing Mechwarrior 2, 3 and 4 and loving it. We ended up buying extra copies of the games just for other friends to install during lan parties. We played it hours on end, and honestly didn't really get tired of it until other friends quit playing it and we found some other computer game time sinks. During this time, he was playing MegaMek a ton, and tried to get me into it. I wasn't able to get into it very much, and only played it a few times with him. It crashed and had issues saving progress, which turned me off about it. He, however, powered on with it.

I came across Mechwarrior: Living Legends on ModDB one day and got it up and running since I had Crysis already. Showed my roommate, and he bought Crysis just to give it a go himself. It was cool at that point in time, but you could tell it was a ways off from "playable". We kept an eye on it, and played a bit more, but something happened which kind of made us drop our toy.

We were in a guild in WoW for a while which took up a lot of our playtime when all of a sudden the MW5 trailer popped out. He was ecstatic and I was honestly super excited myself. Most, if not all of you, can relate to the idea that it looked fantastic and had a lot of potential. From what I remember, the trailer came out and there was not much concrete info about the game at the time. I was looking forward to a single player campaign, better AI than the previous games and glorious Crysis level prettiness. My roommate, as far as I know, was mostly just looking forward to Mechwarrior anything.

Time passed, with us both doing what young adults do, gradually get sucked more and more into work. I was between jobs when MWO first popped up with founder stuff. I was a little confused, since the last I had heard of it, was basically a trailer for MW5, but my roommate brought me up to speed quickly. I knew that just because of the IP, he was going to be playing it a lot. We tended to play a lot of coop games being roommates and all, so I asked him some questions and did some research of my own.

I had some cash, but not enough at that time for Legendary. He fronted me the rest to get it, since he knew it would be sort of an investment for himself (see letting my sister win, form earlier in this post). I honestly was very much into the idea of the game at the time, and had I been employed, I would have gone for Legendary Founder just the same. We both were pretty excited about it, and I believe we even messed around with MW3 and 4 for a while for old time's sake. Fortunately, I got some income, and paid him back reasonably quick.

When MWO went into closed beta, I was working a ton. Lots of overtime. Basically, I left for work before my roommate and got home after him. This meant that I almost always saw him playing MWO. Many times I got up to go into work early and he was still up from the night prior still playing. He liked it. A LOT. When I did have time to play, we would play. Even though I would be 2 steps behind in performance and knowledge, he still was just happy to play this game that he loved along with his friends. When we were able to play with another couple friends, I think he about pissed himself from happiness even though we routinely got stomped.

I have a stance on Alpha and Beta development. I understand that there will be jarring changes made in the name of balance, and for me, I don't do well with that. I purposely only played a little here and there because I was waiting for a more matured version of the game. Too many times in the past, I had taken a short break from a game and come back after the nerf bat had struck and was completely lost about what happened when and what to do from there. I also know that I can get burned out playing something new, and having to relearn mechanics balance and I wanted to "save myself" for a more refined product as U said earlier.

If you take my stance on early development and combine it with working a ton, you can guess that I didn't play much. Oh, I wanted to play, but I was waiting and didn't have much time anyways. I did, however have time to read while at work, and I followed the forums loosely. I also frequent reddit, so /r/MWO was one of my reading stops, and I would see important info pop on my frontpage. Cliffnotes of development.

Time went on, and I started seeing things that concerned me on the forums, but I did not see my roommate play MWO much less than he had. He was still going strong. I remember at one point we had a bit of an argument over some details I had asked him about because I thought the 3rd person view situation was handled pretty poorly. I had actually played the game for the first time in a while when I read about it to see if it really worked as I saw on the forums and it did. I was floored, it seemed like a pretty bad issue, and the part that hit me the hardest was the responses from the devs about it. He had more faith about it and was pretty adamant that it was only temporary or a misunderstanding. The apology letter a couple days later kinda supported what he said, but i was feeling uneasy about some of the stuff. Seemed too unstable.

I am pretty skeptical, especially after Hellgate: London and Age of Conan bit me, and I started getting more and more hung up on the types of responses I was seeing from the devs. Game balance at the time wasn't as big of a deal to me as to how the ship was being sailed. I saw a lot of stuff I didn't agree with, between switching stances and quieting criticism, I was not liking what I saw. I will say this, though: anyone who games any decent amount knows you don't have to like the developers or the publisher, it is all about the game itself. Sadly, the game itself was turning into this odd, taffy like, stretched out idea which seemed like it was just going on forever and not really making any progress. I was losing interest. Even as the launch date approached, from what I saw, it didn't feel like a complete game. It felt like it was still missing a ton of stuff.

To say my roommate was pretty excited about the launch event is to understate it. He is a frugal dude (except when it comes to MWO and SC) and rarely does anything "special" for his vacations. Typically, he doesn't really travel or anything. Just veges out and relaxes or whatever. For this event, though, he was jazzed. Getting extra days on either side of the event, was gonna treat himself with nicer lodging, flying from the east coast. This guys soundtrack at the time was Starship's "Nothings Gonna Stop Us Now' but it was about him and his MWO login. He sent me a couple texts about it while he was out there, and came back with a bit of loot and bunch to say. Who he had met, what he had talked about to whom, who he played with, etc.. He gave me an MWO keychain and as funny as it sounds, I understood this dude is all about the IP, so something as simple as a keychain was still a big deal to him.

Anyways, I am still subbed to /r/MWO and /r/OutreachHPG, and I still am a little interested in what is going on, but the reason I am writing this wall of text is not to describe my take on the state of things, it is to point out that things have changed for my roommate. The guy doesn't hardly play anymore. This is a dude, that, like many of you, just wants this IP to succeed. He isn't looking for perfection, just something solid. He just wants to soak in the lore and detail of an awesome universe. He has picked up pack after pack and enjoyed playing builds which are more lore based than meta based even if it isn't an OP build. He mostly sticks to /r/OutreachHPG to avoid any negativity, and for the first time recently actually spoke critically of some of the decisions being made in the game. When I spoke with him tonight, he actually was cautious about his expectations when the Community Warfare post was thrown up.

I don't want this to sound bad, but I am not a customer that will be very hard to lose. I am possibly overly skeptical, and though I like the MW universe, I am not as personally invested as many other that bear the founders title. I have a ton of other games I am as interested in as MWO, and some more. My roommate, on the other hand, is someone who, if lost, would indicate larger, more serious issues at hand.

I am posting in this thread as my first, and possibly last post because I haven't felt that moderation was being properly administered recently, and that the seemingly critical nature of the post would be bad mojo. But, I also felt that a lot of what I read today resounded with what I have seen, and felt that here would be a good place to share.

[Rebel Roshak]

Just joined in and what the f...

[Omeda Zero]

Wow almost 50 pages of founder tags. This might be a good learning opportunity of how not to run a community. I personally don't think you should get your reddit access back. Content creators are specifically asked not to moderate communities where their content is the focus because of a conflict of interest and you violated that rule. You ban people over the smallest things on your own forums and then want exceptions made when you break major rules on other peoples sites.

[H4-ThunderGoose]

[Rebel Roshak]

Hey my long lost founder friends how you all doing?
Been up to much?
Family ok?

[Draco Argentum]

And here we see a man who thinks rules are only for other people desperately trying to get BTech fans to tell those meanies at Reddit to un ban him.

No, it turns out that BTech fans have more self respect than that. Perhaps not slapping them around for a few years might've helped. At the very least they wouldn't be all over the internet shouting you down and pointing out that you don't deliver on promises. No CW yet? Thats borderline fraud.

[Grimbrand]

I know I'm an original Legendary Founder, and that I'm not PGI's target audience.

I know I'm on my Star Citizen island, and anything I say is going to be pretty irrelevant, clearly.

So are people at CIG, and Star Citizen fans 'against' PGI and their new Transverse game? Not because we are jealous, or worried that they might be successful in some way. Most of us involved with Star Citizen love all kinds of sci-fi games, and would love to see another good one.
But a lot of us are Mechwarrior fans too, and we got to experience PGI's abuse and dishonesty firsthand.

Maybe CIG has actually got some right to be outraged, because the ships from this game are a pretty blatant ripoff of the Redeemer and Cutlass ships from Star Citizen, as is a lot of the general layout and presentation of Transverse.

What made ME mad was having PGI promise to build a game with dropships, interplanetary combat, salvage, important mechanics to address tonnage and roles like scouts, destructible environments, and last but not least, meaningful organizations like the Successor Houses, merc groups, and all the rest - but then never working on any of those features.

Having the moderators on the MWO forums prevent us from giving useful, honest, and well-meaning feedback in order to improve the game? That made me pretty angry

Spending hundreds of dollars for a game that is just a deathmatch with horribly flawed game mechanics, and asking for a refund two months before release, only to be denied and then told that I should stop being so nostalgic about an old franchise? WOW. Furious.

And Nikolai, if you think that 'un-approving' posts is a good way to remove the problem, I think you should read the story of the little Dutch boy who tried to plug holes in the dam with his fingers. Spoiler: It doesn't end well.

I genuinely don't know what you guys could do to improve things at this point. You've made an awful lot of bad decisions. But as ever, apologizing for your mistakes, focusing your resources on actually fixing some of the issues, and putting back in the features you promised for MWO might be a good start.

I don't hold any more hope for Transverse being a decent game than I do for PGI to work on Mechwarrior and make it shine. And that's a shame.

Edited by Grimbrand, 11 September 2014 - 02:22 AM.

[PlzDie]

Thronde, on 11 September 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

A White Knight cautiously pokes his head out! And instantly retreats back into mom's basement having said his "adult words"!

Thanks now I have coffee all over my keyboard and screen.

[PlzDie]

Cavale, on 10 September 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

I was referring to you coming onto their turf to slag them. As well as the general bile they're getting for running their ****. Yeah, they ****** up on Reddit. What the **** ever. Go back there, you puss filled vitriol spewing sack.

Well they did come after us first, we left, we all went to the ISLAND, where they put us since we were no longer the target demographic.

We slagged them from there.

They came after us and brought this wonderful disaster on themselves.

[Garandos]

Kottlewski, on 11 September 2014 - 12:43 AM, said:

Oh this is that "island" am i right?
Let's give it a name...
What about Réunion?
Any other suggestions?

From Wikipedia:
Réunion (French: La Réunion, IPA: [la ʁeynjɔ̃] ( listen); previously Île Bourbon) is a French island with a population of 840,974 inhabitants (as of January 2013^[1]) located in the Indian Ocean, east of Madagascar, about 200 kilometres (120 mi) southwest of Mauritius, the nearest island.

I suggest Tranquility, for, when everything will blow up, it will be VERY tranquil after....

[Horrace]

Remember when they shut the general forum here because the top threads were always issues that actually needed to be addressed?

Haha good times, so clueless.

I miss knockdowns and Dragon bowling.

[Angelos Sanguinum]

Because community are fed up with your(PGI's) lies Nikolai. Sad but true.

[Lord Ikka]

The only reason I'm still in this game after 2 years of PGI pulling crap is because of my brothers in the 9th Sword and HK. I have made a group of friends that I love to play this broken game with and they are the reason I've stayed and paid over 400 dollars. If PGI doesn't fix the many issues brought up, I don't think even my friendships will be enough for me to stay.

This game reignited a long dormant love of the BT universe for me. I love the stories and the game. Luckily the new TT boxed set is out so I can still get my BT on.

I will be sorry if I leave MWO, but I will do my best to bring my friends along to a new game. Our regiment has lasted since 96, we can wait around another 15 years to play another Mechwarrior game.

Edited by Lord Ikka, 11 September 2014 - 03:18 AM.

[Draco Argentum]

DoctorDetroit, on 11 September 2014 - 03:15 AM, said:

Our society shows its ineptitude with its demand for people to resign or be fired from positions when they make mistakes. People make mistakes, a lot of them. This situation is something that can be learned from and not repeated.

Consider that Niko, had probably been moderating a lot of inflammatory posts for the extended weekend(or longer). That is a lot of negativity to absorb without time to relax.... pretty much a recipe for making a judgement error.

Now get back to breaking mechs!

As the former Premier of Queensland used to say 'the buck stops with me'. Unfortunately there comes a time when so many bucks have stopped with you that you're buried and you just look like a fool, troll or saboteur. It cost Peter Beatie his popularity and it has cost Niko any shred of credibility, goodwill or respect that BTech fans could have had for him. And now he is here, exposed as a rank hypocrite, crying because Reddit enforced the ToS that he was too self important to follow.

[Blurry]

how bad at pr can you be? do you not take a step back and look at what you are doing and see?
amazing to see you can still go lower.

oh well the price to get out of this is going to be expensive guys and cost humble pie as well.

my advice - turn it all off and start over somewhere else or pay someone a lot of money to fix it.

either way very bad options for a small indie company.

[Matta]

I'm not into reddit to be honest and at first I haven't had a clue what went on.

But now... wow ! Just, wow !

Seems like a scenario from lousy B-rated movies: a plan to ruin something, so perfect that it sucks for the story because it's so blunt.


BTW, hello fellow founders, nice to see you all in such great numbers !

[Eviscerator]

Haven't posted here since 2012, all I can say is... You guys broke the rules, and now have the gall to complain to the community you've been pissing off since you came out of Closed Beta when your actions finally have consequences?

I hope you're not wondering why people are savoring this.

Also, about my refund?

Edit: Happy to see so many Founder's tags. Brings bag fond memories.

Edited by Eviscerator, 11 September 2014 - 03:34 AM.

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

Niko violated Code of Conduct and moderating rules. So, the answer is: - No.

With regards, Reddit administration.

[Tolkien]

DoctorDetroit, on 11 September 2014 - 03:15 AM, said:

Our society shows its ineptitude with its demand for people to resign or be fired from positions when they make mistakes. People make mistakes, a lot of them. This situation is something that can be learned from and not repeated.

Consider that Niko, had probably been moderating a lot of inflammatory posts for the extended weekend(or longer). That is a lot of negativity to absorb without time to relax.... pretty much a recipe for making a judgement error.

Now get back to breaking mechs!

Niko getting PGI banned from reddit is just the tip of the iceberg. The deeper issue is that he violates the reddit TOS again in his post here because he's calling on the 'loyal community' of MWO to brigade reddit and get them reinstated so he can continue doing what he has been doing.

The underlying issue is that PGI has no loyal community because they have spat on us at every turn since 2012:

1) Pretending ECM was balanced for months on end rather than immediately turfing the guy who thought it was 'no op'. (Was eventually nerfed a few times, but still probably the best item in the game by far for tonnage and crit space)

2) Lying about consumable coolant shots and trying to make the MC versions *blatantly* P2W by making the Cbill versions take up 2 slots for the same effect. Seriously go look it up, as originally pitched they were blatantly P2W.

3) Advertising the game as 1pv only even after 3pv was shoehorned in as the default view mode.

4) Saying they would split the queues so we would have a choice to not play with/against 3pv as they swore. They lied and didn't split the queues.

5) Phoenix backers like me (Overlord star of shame not shown - guess the forum is still buggy as hell) still don't have our loyalty points bonus. They mince words like 'oh it's coded in so you got it', but that's completely immaterial because I am not able to earn that currency.

6) Crowing to media outlets that their new game mode would be 'more than just running to a point' before releasing a game mode that was just running to a point.

7) Dismissing players pointing out glaring faults that they are 'on an island' - game is in the best **** **** **** ever.

8) Telling the founders that we are no longer your core audience, while in reality, as you are now learning, founders are the only reason your project had a prayer. What's worse, you claimed 3pv was causing a massive uptick in retention among your 'new target demographic', then forum banned a player for asking how you knew who the heck was in what demographic - your website only asks for an email address to sign up.

9) Acting like used car salesmen by telling us founders that CW would be out in '60-90 days' after open beta (January 2013)

Quote

As we head towards the Founder’s Program, I wanted to update our loyal fans on what exactly they are buying

10) Selling us more mechs on the false promise that CW would be out 'all three phases up to launch' in video interviews from the GDC.

11) Telling us on NGNG episodes (somewhere between no. 34 and no. 36) that CW would be out 'All three phases over 2013'.

12) Selling us more (gold plated!?) mechs while telling us that you actually stopped working on CW but didn't tell anyone.

Quote

Confidence is very high that worst case scenario is the completion of the entire Community Warfare feature set as we currently understand it by Early to Mid-fall.

13) During the reddit AMA you said some nonsense about 'not wanting to miss more deadlines' so you were pushing your deadline back on CW to 21 December.... without a hint of irony, and seemingly oblivious to how you were piddling all over your previous 'heartfelt, gosh golly gee honest this time guys' assurances.

14) The president of the company having the audacity to go on twitter and lie that 'What was sold was delivered 100%' when his own community manager had the good sense to at least acknowledge that they had once again short changed founders by deciding to 'leave out' our in game badge for ~6 months, even though they previously promised everything would be in.

15) This one isn't the biggest by far, but it encapsulates everything wrong with PGI and the way it has treated us players over the past years:



PGI decided that the best way to handle this was to remove the word 'exclusive' rather than do anything to follow through on their word. They even had the class to do it after the deadline to get a refund on Phoenix without getting your account locked was past.
While this last one is one of the smallest of PGI's failings it also shows exactly how little regard you have for your paying customers. You could have made this right even if the 'Phoenix camo' pattern was jammed into the general store by giving all Phoenix backers a simple truly exclusive camo pattern as promised. Something that only costs $1-5 on your store for people that were often dropping $80. Instead you chose to shortchange us.

edit: Now here's the takeaway. You (PGI) have a choice to make. You can either go down this list (and it's not a completely list!) and fix literally all the things you have screwed founders over with since day 1, actually make the game you advertised way back in 2011-2012, or you can prepare to spend the next n years unable to find work in the sci-fi genre except maybe as 3rd party developers.

This isn't a threat, it's just an observation given how your 'new project' has raised only $6000 in 2 days. Your reputation is so toxic that any advertised new project coming from PGI or any of Bryan Russ or Paul is going to be met with a torrent of posts, across all media platforms from your past burnt customers.

You have a choice, and it's best to make it while there's still a prayer of people forgiving you and making this game cash flow positive again.

Edited by Tolkien, 11 September 2014 - 08:28 AM.