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Community Warfare - Phase 2 - Feedback


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#481 Devillin

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 06:59 PM

View Post5th Fedcom Rat, on 10 September 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:


This is why I made three accounts: one Davion, one Kurita, one Clan. We've known since the beginning that Community Warfare would come one day, and everyone in I.S. factions running around in 3050 with Clan gear would be so ridiculous it would ruin the spirit and atmosphere of CW.


While I wouldn't go so far as to make three accounts, I always figured that they would do something like Star Trek Online, where you log into a separate character to use ships for a specific race. So for MWO, you'd have one character for the Inner Sphere mechs, and one character for the Clan mechs. I don't see where the confusion is, especially since they said from day one that you wouldn't be able to mix Clan and IS mechs and tech, that there would be two different queues and parts bays for both of them.

The only thing I had a concern about is that they said that Community Warfare for the Clans would come several months after CW for the IS. I don't get why they don't just copy and paste whatever they do for the IS side to the Clan side, and change the artwork and flavor to match the Clans (and remove any references to Lone Wolves or Mercenaries). Get the Clan side up preliminarily, then phase in the specific Clan flavor.

#482 Cimarb

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 07:11 PM

View PostDevillin, on 13 September 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:


The only thing I had a concern about is that they said that Community Warfare for the Clans would come several months after CW for the IS. I don't get why they don't just copy and paste whatever they do for the IS side to the Clan side, and change the artwork and flavor to match the Clans (and remove any references to Lone Wolves or Mercenaries). Get the Clan side up preliminarily, then phase in the specific Clan flavor.

Where did they state that?

#483 Hoax415

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 08:23 PM

They actually said almost the opposite. They have only promised that Clan vs IS will be available upon launch. They consider the clan invasion to be the showpiece of CW and it has their focus.

Clans vs Clans and IS vs IS are planned but they consider them to be lower priority. It has been pointed out already by several people that that plan leaves half the IS without anyone to really fight.

Edited by Hoax415, 13 September 2014 - 08:23 PM.


#484 Cimarb

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 09:18 PM

View PostHoax415, on 13 September 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

They actually said almost the opposite. They have only promised that Clan vs IS will be available upon launch. They consider the clan invasion to be the showpiece of CW and it has their focus.

Clans vs Clans and IS vs IS are planned but they consider them to be lower priority. It has been pointed out already by several people that that plan leaves half the IS without anyone to really fight.

Well, actually it leaves half of the IS fighting for the other Houses, regardless of their chosen faction. It effectively makes there only two factions: Clan and IS. I am not happy about that, but it is pretty low on the list of things to fight over right now.

#485 Kageru Ikazuchi

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 10:00 PM

View PostCimarb, on 13 September 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

Well, actually it leaves half of the IS fighting for the other Houses, regardless of their chosen faction. It effectively makes there only two factions: Clan and IS. I am not happy about that, but it is pretty low on the list of things to fight over right now.

Concur with all ... breaking the player base into more than two sides right now is probably not the right move. I was hoping for more, but understand why they don't want to start with something so complex.

Once CW goes live, we can start asking about House v House border skirmishes, Clan v Clan trials, etc.

Personally, I think new user experience should have a higher priority (after CW) ... let's make it easier to attract and keep new players.

#486 Modred

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 02:28 AM

Happy to see that the game is advancing towards community warfare, however if I'm reading this correctly its all based on 12man deployment, does that mean that you have to have dedicated 12 man or can anyone or groups up to 10 play in community warfare and be 'added' up to make a 12 man.

If its based purely on you must have a 12 man to start, this will be a major failure, the dedicated 12 man hasn't worked from day 1, virtually no one does it, when you do have a dedicated 12 man you keep running into the same 2 or 3 other 12 man that are playing.

Some clarification would be great.

#487 Quincy McAllister

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:33 AM

PLANETARY CONQUEST GAME-MODE

Although I admit that a new "planetary conquest" game mode has some merits, there are more gameplay options than only planetary conquest. What about recon drops, sabotage runs, or raids? Will other strategic approaches than planetary conquest (only) play a role?

#488 Hoax415

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 06:05 AM

View PostModred, on 14 September 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

Some clarification would be great.


In order to select a planet and hit drop you must have formed a 12-man.

It has to be faction appropriate: the planet must be under attack by your faction and all 12 must be from your faction*

*we do not know at this time how exactly mercs, clan daggerstar or LNW work.

If you hate organized 12-mans you will only be able to drop as a fill-in defender. Whenever an attack drop happens the planet's official defending unit is notified. They have 2 minutes to form a 12-man and commit to defense. If they do not the defense is opened to the public. At this time everyone faction appropriate is capable of defending. Solo players included. A pick up 12-man will be formed out of these players and they will be the defenders.

You can read all of that in the OP.

#489 Deffias

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 01:48 PM

There was no mention of dropships in the phase 2 outline. Will player/unit owned dropships be used in phase 2 of cw? If so, can we get a quick synopsis of their function and utilities in phase 2? If not, when can we expect dropships?

#490 Devillin

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 09:35 AM

View PostHoax415, on 14 September 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:


In order to select a planet and hit drop you must have formed a 12-man.

It has to be faction appropriate: the planet must be under attack by your faction and all 12 must be from your faction*

*we do not know at this time how exactly mercs, clan daggerstar or LNW work.

If you hate organized 12-mans you will only be able to drop as a fill-in defender. Whenever an attack drop happens the planet's official defending unit is notified. They have 2 minutes to form a 12-man and commit to defense. If they do not the defense is opened to the public. At this time everyone faction appropriate is capable of defending. Solo players included. A pick up 12-man will be formed out of these players and they will be the defenders.



Since these series of battles take place over three days, I guess the question I would have is, how is the final determination made as to who wins the planet? Will it be the most wins 6 out of 11, or some other number? Or will it be an infinite number of battles over those three days, with the side having the highest number of victories the winner of the planet?

Edited by Devillin, 15 September 2014 - 09:38 AM.


#491 Cimarb

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 03:57 PM

View PostDevillin, on 15 September 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:



Since these series of battles take place over three days, I guess the question I would have is, how is the final determination made as to who wins the planet? Will it be the most wins 6 out of 11, or some other number? Or will it be an infinite number of battles over those three days, with the side having the highest number of victories the winner of the planet?

Based off the OP, it is just whoever has the most number of wins for that planet.

#492 Hoax415

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 07:48 PM

Its an interesting question though if some wins or losses will help or hurt more than others. Probably not at launch of CW but certainly something to consider in the future.

#493 Devillin

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 01:54 AM

View PostCimarb, on 15 September 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

Based off the OP, it is just whoever has the most number of wins for that planet.


So really, the whole thing about having a "scramble team" isn't really important, since it will be the total number of wins over 3 days that matter, not whether or not your "scramble team" wins the first fight. It sounds like the more important thing is whether your group has enough quality players to ensure that you win enough battles to retain ownership.

If so, that sounds very inviting not just for the guilds, but for the PUG players as well. I'd love to see additional achievements come out of this that you can earn. Like "Defender of [Insert Planet Name Here]" or "Raider of [ *** ]" or "Taker (or Assaulter) of [ *** ]" for whatever defenses, assaults, or raids that you successfully participate in.

#494 Alaric Hasek

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 02:26 PM

Can we get a list of what 'mechs are available to each House when CW opens?
I realize there are canonical lists from old BT tabletop sourcebooks, but PGI might have made changes. So, would those lists be possible to see?

#495 Cimarb

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 05:34 PM

View PostAlaric Hasek, on 16 September 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

Can we get a list of what 'mechs are available to each House when CW opens?
I realize there are canonical lists from old BT tabletop sourcebooks, but PGI might have made changes. So, would those lists be possible to see?

All IS mechs that you have purchased or are on trial are usable if you are a Merc, Lone Wolf, or House Loyalist. All Clan mechs that you have purchased or are on trial are usable if you are a Dagger Star or Clan Loyalist.

#496 Verdic Mckenna

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:47 PM

This has been a consistent suggestion of mine for years. I think Mechwarrior 2 had some really fun mission structures. They need to be here in a way that is balanced for multi-player.

View PostQuincy McAllister, on 14 September 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

PLANETARY CONQUEST GAME-MODE

Although I admit that a new "planetary conquest" game mode has some merits, there are more gameplay options than only planetary conquest. What about recon drops, sabotage runs, or raids? Will other strategic approaches than planetary conquest (only) play a role?


#497 Iraklis72

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 08:08 AM

There are many times that from the start or after few minutes the fight looks like a certain defeat. The problem is that there is no other option than continue fighting until being destroyed. Will you give another option like retreat or surrender (and exchange freedom for some money or mechs etc)?

#498 Stormwolfe13

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 02:48 AM

There are a lot of things about the proposed model for CW that leaves me scratching my head and/or shaking my head in despair. 2 minutes to respond to challenges. 30 Second set up. Forcing teams to add non-team members to the battle when defending. Matches only available during "peak" play times. Looks absolutely ridiculous. Why am I not surprised. This will be the last straw for a lot of players I am sure... I will be sad to see this game die off. So much wasted potential :(

#499 Threat Doc

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 12:46 PM

It's my intent to read through, and comment on, what was written for this posting. I know I'm sort of late to the party, but as I've explained elsewhere, my sons and I have been moving to Washington state, starting three weeks ago, and ending with the restoration of our internet last night. Anyway, I intend to do this, and then spend some time reading what everyone else has been asking for.

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Community Warfare - Phase 2
Sept 10, 2014


OPT-IN TO COMMUNITY WARFARE
When a player clicks the Faction tab, they are opting into Community Warfare gameplay. This means they will be accepting the fact that teams will be split into IS vs Clan ‘Mechs and cannot mix the two technologies.
Very nice verification of how things should be.

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INTERACTIVE INNER-SPHERE MAP
The Inner-Sphere Map displays the status of the Inner Sphere in terms of borders and conflicts. It shows all planets that we have data for.
Unfortunately, unless some changes and updates to the map have been made in the past three weeks, I still get an ugly matte grey/black THING behind the star systems, and am unable to see the successor states and/or the colors in the image representing it at all. Are you going to be fixing that?

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Interactivity
  • Players can pan the map.
  • Players can zoom in/out on the map.
  • Players can click a planet.

Planet Details
When a planet is clicked, an information panel should show the planet’s detailed information:
  • Planet Name
  • Planet Faction Affiliation
  • Occupying Unit (If applicable)
  • Any lore from BT we can add (Population, temperature, lore facts)
  • Indicate if the planet is contested or not (see below)

Contested Planets
When a planet is contested, the warring factions are fighting over who will control the planet and reap the associated rewards. For each planet, there is an attacking Faction Unit and a defending Faction Unit.
  • Contested planets are specially marked on the IS map and can be identified at all zoom levels.
  • Contested planets are assignable by the design team.

ENGAGING IN PLANETARY CONQUEST
During peak player count times throughout the day, planetary control matches will be kicked off within the Faction tab. Players will see planets on the Inner Sphere map which are currently contested and be able to choose to be part of the fight.

A Player's Faction Selection
The faction a player has aligned to will be a hard rule as to which ‘Mechs they can use and which planets they can attack/defend.
Thank God. I was wondering if this was going to be addressed.

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Groups in Community Warfare
Groups in community warfare will be hard limited to players in the same unit. This is to re-enforce faction gameplay so you will not see groups of mixed Kurita and Davion for example.

Initiating an Attack
Initial plan is to have initiation of an attack can only be done by a 12-man unit group. The group leader will select a planet and click the attack button.
Not a fan of that, and I think you're going to find that will not work very well, especially for smaller groups. What about adding the various game and map modes that would allow for missions requiring various sizes. Restricting a Planetary Assault to a minimum 12-Man makes sense, but what about raids, bounties, etc.?

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Prioritization of Groups
Attacking groups are always placed in a single queue in a first-in first-out logistics order (FIFO). Defending groups are placed in queue and are given the opportunity to choose their group’s ‘Mech weight class build to meet the requirements of the defending team for the given match.
I'm not quite certain what this looks like, but it doesn't sound as if it would be terribly exact, nor viable for Merc Units, or Lone Wolf elements less than twelve.

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DEFENDING TEAM QUEUE
There are 2 types of defenders for a planet. Contract defenders are the Unit that won the right to defend a planet through the bidding system. Faction defenders are the rest of the players who can defend the planet but are not part of the contract defending unit.

Contract Defenders
  • When an attack is first triggered, a notification is sent to all members of the unit that is part of the contract defenders.
  • The contract defenders have [2] minutes to respond by creating a 12-man unit team and clicking the defend button.

Faction Defenders
  • If the [2] minute limit expires, the remaining slots available on the team are made publically available.
  • When this release to faction defenders happens, all faction players are notified via an in-game messaging system.
  • The remaining slots are filled by faction defenders in priority order in which they clicked the defend button.
  • Faction defenders when allowed to join a team are given [30] seconds to choose their ‘Mechs to fit the available slots.
Will Contract Defenders, who either responded within the 2 minute time-limit -which is ridiculously short, by the way- or that become available after the 2 minute limit, also be allowed to fight with the Faction Defenders, as something of a mixed bag? Otherwise, what you're doing is penalizing Contract Defenders because they couldn't hit the button fast enough, and that's just unfair. What if they were already involved in a game when the 2 minute limit came and went? My recommendation is that you allow between twenty [20] and twenty-five [25] minutes for Contract Defenders to respond, first, then send it out to Faction Defenders, as well. If enough Contract Defenders respond, treat it like readying up in the game, the counter drops to a smaller time, or goes away entirely, and the drop commences. Otherwise, I'm afraid you're looking at potential mutiny territory.

Indeed, I find it silly that the old system of unit commander's agreeing on a set of three battle times, if necessary, is not being set in place. If a House or Clan does not have enough member's on at a particular time, the system you're proposing will penalize them, especially if that's not their prime time to play, let alone what it does to Merc units. You need to institute a means for Unit Commanders, or those authorized to do so in the UCs stead, to either launch off a game immediately, or to negotiate three times and days to get enough people together; this two-minute time limit, and then it goes to Faction, is just silly. If the units cannot agree on any times, or cannot get enough people together at any times, then the UCs need to be responsible and send out a Contract and Faction Defenders message about how many MechWarrior's will be needed at a particular time.

The system you're proposing simply will not work as proposed.

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Drop Decks
A drop deck is a selection of 4 ‘Mechs in the player’s inventory. Each of the 4 ‘Mechs must be one of each weight class (one light, one medium, one heavy, one assault). All 4 ‘Mechs must belong to the same technology core (IS or Clan). The Drop Deck is a means for the player to quickly choose their favorite ‘Mech of a specific weight class when in the defender queue outlined above.

The Drop Deck will display the following:
  • Currently chosen Light ‘Mech thumbnail
  • Currently chosen Medium ‘Mech thumbnail
  • Currently chosen Heavy ‘Mech thumbnail
  • Current chosen Assault ‘Mech thumbnail
  • A drop down in each 'Mech panel will allow the player to change a 'Mech for an owned, same weight class 'Mech.
I like this, but I wonder about those who do not have a 'Mech in a certain weight class? Will they be allowed to drop without four 'Mechs, or would you allow them to substitute with a Champion 'Mech of the appropriate weight class?

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PLANETARY CONQUEST GAME-MODE
This new game mode and map is planned to be part of the map/game mode cycle of matches for Community Warfare.

To make taking a planet feel epic, a new game mode would bring the feeling of longer matches and standoffs. Instead of playing a series of death match games to decide who conquers a planet, this new attack/defend game mode would let players feel like they’re truly fighting over something.

Invasion incorporates an attacking drop zone (where attackers spawn) and a defensive base (defenders spawn). The idea is that the attackers destroy the defenders base and defensive structures. At a severe choke point location on the map, a set of defensive barriers prevent the attackers (those who do not have jump jets) from proceeding beyond this point. If the attackers use high ground positions and take out the power plants holding the magnetic doors shut, the doors will lose power and a safety mechanic opens the doors allowing the attackers through.

Invasion Mode - Map Requirements
  • Maps must have longer travel times to point of first contact. This is important because it also increases the time it takes for re-enforcements (respawns) to arrive back into battle.
  • Maps must have multiple choke points that encase the defensive barriers. Too few choke points and the defenders will have too great of an advantage focus firing on the points of passage.
  • Choke points must provide some means of destroying power generators on the defender’s side of the defensive barriers.
  • Choke points should be protected by defensive turrets.
  • Defensive barriers should be connected to a power plant.
  • Destroying power plants open the connected barriers.
  • Gates should open slowly allowing players to “slice the pie” and engage.
  • Light ‘Mechs with jump jets should be able to barely make it over the barriers if they so choose.
Weak.

But, it's a step in the right direction. Planetary Assault/Conquest should NOT be the only means of fighting in MWO. There absolutely MUST be different missions, in accordance with the BattleTech lore, for God's sake, and we need objectives and contracts that include raids, as well. PGI, you have the tools, you have the talent, you can make this happen and, if you want the game to last, this is what you need to do... what has never been done in a multi-player game before.

#500 Threat Doc

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 10:21 PM

Oh, hey, and my map colors were fixed while I was away. Thank you, PGI.





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