119 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Illegal Username, on 11 September 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

I forgot to mention that while Community Warfare has always been 90 days away, the current shitstorm made PGI reveal "High level design documents" about CW.

It was basically a napkin-level outline with no details whatsoever "uh maybe you have a team and you click on planets"
Paul and russ couldn't even initially agree on if there will be IS vs IS or Clan vs Clan CW.


No work has been done on CW whatsoever.

Let's be fair on this -

There was the slide show about CW done at the release party.

I'm playing MW:O, I'm willing to invest in the idea of CW, I'm happy to discuss it - but until I get pics I'm going to be dubious because I've had great conversations about CW before.

However for the last year they've absolutely delivered everything they said, when they said. They made some decisions that were less than ideal, which they then walked back and replaced with what the community said they wanted.

It's been years now man. Am I going to have to post a Frozen gif for you?

[Illegal Username]

MischiefSC, on 11 September 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

They made some decisions that were less than ideal, which they then walked back and replaced with what the community said they wanted.

I agree with the first part but man, did you have a stroke or something while typing that comma

[MischiefSC]

Illegal Username, on 11 September 2014 - 10:42 PM, said:

I agree with the first part but man, did you have a stroke or something while typing that comma

CERLL. 2.0 second burn time was TEH DEBIL. So was the reduced Ghost Heat on it btw. Both of those got walked back. We said '2.0 second burn time sucks and we hate it and it makes me want to shake a baby. Please remove it, reduce damage and range and raise heat'.

Which we got, 2 patches later.

I'm good with that.

[Soulscour]

I miss knock downs :-(

[TLBFestus]

Tezcatli, on 11 September 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

I'm simply content to get an update with new changes, additions, and fixes. That's exactly what they give us now. I mean it would be cool if they could give us some in progress pics of them working on stuff. But that's just fluff.

But, that "fluff" is the exact stuff that they SHOULD be spoon feeding us. This community (in it's less foaming at the mouth days) would lap this stuff up! It may still.

It creates a "Hey, look at this screen capture of what we are working on" vibe. It re-directs our anxiety and impatience and gives us something TO DO WITH IT.


Remember, way, way, long ago in the past when they said they had a "big" announcement to make? they had this picture, all fuzzy and disconnected looking?



Gradually things become, or seemed to get clearer?

In the end it was to announce the (DOA) Razor ARTEMIS













Now, it was a total bust, never got past the concept piece of vapor-peripheral, but the thing is WE WERE EXCITED OUT OF OUR MINDS!!!

I spent literally hours with that stupid image, using photoshop, cutting it apart and trying to assemble it like a jig-saw puzzle. By the way, it didn't work, but I was occupied!

People speculated, talked, and the Devs didn't give us any hints, they just let us RUN WITH IT. We were all wrong (mostly), and it wasn't anything we thought, but in the end we weren't disappointed. That "fluff" was freakin' AWESOME.

So, they need more fluff. Release some early concept art, a screen cap or two, some with info, some with not. Let us vicariously participate! Let our minds wander and speculate.

The thing is, so many of us have been here for a LONG TIME and we have lost our wonder. PGI has, unfortunately, jaded us. We've become cynical and because they aren't communicating well (over all, fan boys, over all), we are left to fix our attention on THE DISAPPOINTMENTS, not on "what might come next when you look at that...".

Niko, do you want to salvage your reputation and work your way back to a level of respect with the large portion of the community you disenfranchised? Drop the hammer (actually..no....place it down,....carefully), muzzle your dogs, and start doing stuff like this. Interact, show us stuff...no explanation necessary, let us "wonder".

Why the heck not PGI? Is the stuff you are working on so "tip-top ultra secret" that you are afraid to let a little drib or drab be seen out of fear some competitor will snap it and produce "Bass Fishing MechRobots 2?"

Engage your audience. Show us concepts that DIDN'T work, that might work. Do this stuff, occupy us and make us "participants" again, and bridges can be mended, the community restored. It will take time, but it can work.

Edited by TLBFestus, 11 September 2014 - 11:07 PM.

[Jonathan Paine]

I demand that Niko keeps his job and free ice cream for everyone!

Actually, I'd take a continued stream of posts from devs here and complete neglect of reddit.

Also, maps. Lots of maps. Did I mention maps?

[Robin Wolf]

Holy grail, why some people don't just play the darn game, or go play another darn game?

I suspect a lot are posting from work or other places where they can't play a game, yet they can devote their time to posting here/anywhere else just to throw some *beep* at PGI...

[Trystan Thorne]

Apnu, on 11 September 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

There's a community of paying players waiting to return to this game.

And I'm one of them. I left MWO weeks ago and planed to return when CW arrives.
I'm only back on the forums the last few days, because suddenly all over the web everyone talks about PGI.
Some really bad press out there. The Transverse and Wing Commander thing is bringing it to a new level of bad press now.
The Reddit fiasco didn't help either.

Getting new players into MWO will be really difficult now. PGI's name is rather quite toxic out there right now.

Yet, I'm still ready to return and spend money on MWO if I see things going the right way. In the recent month, we saw an improvement in the game development. Comms are still terrible though. Would be great if these could be improved as well. And no need to fire anyone really. Mistakes can and do happen. Errare humanum est!

I honestly believe that the fate of PGI stands and falls with MWO at the moment. Transverse already failed and I can't see it be saved without any major rework.
All the best PGI in sailing your ship safely out of the storm! I'm honest!

Edited by Trystan Thorne, 11 September 2014 - 11:12 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MischiefSC, on 11 September 2014 - 10:51 PM, said:

Which we got, 2 patches later.

I'm good with that.

Wasnt that the same patch that saw the Clan ERSL and Clan Pulse get normalized?

[MischiefSC]

WM Quicksilver, on 11 September 2014 - 11:16 PM, said:

Wasnt that the same patch that saw the Clan ERSL and Clan Pulse get normalized?

PGI hates pulse lasers. Hates them deeply and passionately. I suspect that several of them got touched in a bad way by the stupidly imbalanced CLPLs from TT and have never forgiven or forgotten.

One of those things. maybe it'll change some day. Small lasers are there for fluff, like flamers.

[TheCaptainJZ]

People often throw around the "you are on an island" quote and "not the target audience" quote. I strongly suspect that PGI and, in particular Russ, does not know or understand how it is used against him or why. I also suspect it's been blown way out of proportion to what he really meant or who he was talking about specifically.

My theory regarding the target audience is that hardcore TT players that want TT rules and values (something that came up frequently in closed beta) are what he meant by "not the target audience" or in other words, hardcore BT fans are not the specific target audience, but they are included in the target audience as a very broad and vague target audience. He didn't want a game that would appeal only to those hardcore players. I absolutely do not believe he meant that founders were not the target audience. But I don't remember the exact conversation on twitter anymore and I don't have a screenshot of it for reference. I looked it up a long time ago and that was my conclusion.

My theory regarding the "on an island" phrase is similar. Someone complained about how bad ghost heat was as a mechanic and matches were terrible afterwards and stuff like that. Russ responded that most people are happy about the change as it combatted high alphas successfully, so that twitter player was "on an island" in his thoughts that matches were worse because of the change. I'm sure Russ didn't mean that all founders were irrelevant now and was trying to marginalize them. Ghost heat is for sure a convoluted system and I'm sure better alternative solutions could have been found (that is beside the point at the moment though). The truth is, it did curtail high alphas and the majority of the playerbase agreed that it did so to someone believing it failed in its goal, is "on an island."

I'm sure many people will flame me for my thoughts but I honestly believe that these two phrases have been taken out of context and exaggerated in their meanings. And I think Russ is oblivious to how those offended by him have taken these phrases and how they use them today. Karl Berg responded in his awesome super thread to one of those signatures that use the $500 clan page pics with UI2.0 DX11, Voip, and one was Island. Karl responded saying how they achieved most of those things and when they were delivered. However, he thought the Island one it was referring to Crimson Straights (referred to as "Island map" when talked about to us) and he said it was completed. To make matters worse, Russ has never responded to either of these phrases, further causing a breakdown in communication.

I mean, really, a lot of this mess comes from the lack of communication last year. Yes there were mistakes and errors made too, but it wouldn't have been as bad had the communication been far better.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Russ Bullock, on 11 September 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

It's a good post and I appreciate you taking the time. But I watch the team work 12 hours a day and making every effort to communicate but every day brings several more posts like this.

There are limits and if this past week still isn't enough, that is a hard thought.

FYI: We are working on another Vlog we hope to release it next week.

This is why you have a community manager, who should be making far more than 5-6 posts per day (is that even value for money for his role?)

Hell it might even improve his position and cred within the community, instead he's too focused on wielding the banhammer and lock thread toolkit ...........which would be needed far less if there was actually communication.
You guys respond to mostly the wrong threads (ones like this) instead of the ones that offer you suggestions, balance changes, system changes to improve the game....like the ones that really matter.

tldr: if your going to ask us to feedback, address the feedback take ideas on board. You have a test server that sees practically ZERO use, use it.

Edited by DV McKenna, 12 September 2014 - 12:00 AM.

[Kilo 40]

DV McKenna, on 12 September 2014 - 12:00 AM, said:

...........which would be needed far less if there was actually communication.

we've had TONS of communication this past week or so. and guess what? The normal gang of idiots turned their idiocy up to 11 because of it.

This group is too emotionally invested in seeing PGI fail. Nothing is going to appease them. Even when they get what they claim they wanted, the just moan that it should have been sooner, then they choose something new to whine about.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Kilo 40, on 12 September 2014 - 12:08 AM, said:

we've had TONS of communication this past week or so. and guess what? The normal gang of idiots turned their idiocy up to 11 because of it.

This group is too emotionally invested in seeing PGI fail. Nothing is going to appease them. Even when they get what they claim they wanted, the just moan that it should have been sooner, then they choose something new to whine about.

It depends what you term communication.
Really the only good one was the CW P2 thread.

[Kaspirikay]

Kilo 40, on 12 September 2014 - 12:08 AM, said:

we've had TONS of communication this past week or so. and guess what? The normal gang of idiots turned their idiocy up to 11 because of it.

This group is too emotionally invested in seeing PGI fail. Nothing is going to appease them. Even when they get what they claim they wanted, the just moan that it should have been sooner, then they choose something new to whine about.

I think people are sick of all the talking and just want PGI to release content promised years ago. The ones we see now are all half-baked versions of content. Don't even get me started on UI 2.0, this thing is horrible to use.

For years PGI have been leading the community on with a stick and carrot. "Oh the next BIG ******* THING IS RIGHT AROUNDTHE ******* CORNER" 6 months later "OH GUYS THERES A NEW MECH PACK BUY IT PLEASE NEXT BIG THING STILL RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER" rinse and repeat till today.

I love the mechs, though. Just wish there's actual content in this game.

Edited by Kaspirikay, 12 September 2014 - 12:56 AM.

[Kilo 40]

Kaspirikay, on 12 September 2014 - 12:55 AM, said:

I think people are sick of all the talking

no. They group I'm referring to loves to hear themselves talk. The only talk they don't like is when it's positive.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I will say there was one silver lining to all this and that is I got to see so many names I used to fight with. The old good guys in the game.

I'm afraid PGI is stricken by hubris at a level I have not seen in a long time. I was starting to get my faith back but then this happened and all i can think is who the hell is in charge there and would like to know what exactly he is smoking.

Get yourselves a community manager that actually reads the forums and watches the trends in play here. This is not warfare and its actually not very hard to cater to your customers. Im not talking CW because the joke is way long in the tooth.
I am talking about the basics like maps, in game voip and features asked for that are not hard to integrate into the game. LIke AI in testing grounds, More build assistance and explanations for new players.

Maybe address simple concerns like rule clarifications. I posted a thread at supports request regarding synch dropping into solo. It went 40 pages in a number of days with not a peep from anyone past "we are bringing it to authority"

You cannot type what your position is? really?

Nope, all the credit I have been giving you the past few months is gone once again. I think your only concerned with one thing.
Problem is grifters know they have to set up in a new location once the sting is done.

You guys think its repeatable.

Seek professional help please.

[ZenToad]

I checked up on MWO from time to time, hoping they actually get the game turned around. I so want this game to fill some of the promises they sold us the game on. So yes, if they actually seemed to just acknowledge what the problems are and talk about them then we would be far ahead of the current situation and some customers might be back.

I do think PGI did and do themselves no favors when using phrases like "on an island". If a part of your customer base, that you actively pitched your game idea to feel betrayed and are vocal about it - then you need to get out in front of it - not banish it far away. Because that just comes back hard to bite you.

Just seeing the latest "non-apology" makes me sad, you can't expect an apology to be accepted when you show clear denial about what was wrong in the first place. PGI got booted out of reddit for violating their rules, not for "seems possible we over moderated." The state and nature of their moderation is another subject entirely, and not just on reddit.

[Ensaine]

Russ Bullock, on 11 September 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

It's a good post and I appreciate you taking the time. But I watch the team work 12 hours a day and making every effort to communicate but every day brings several more posts like this.

There are limits and if this past week still isn't enough, that is a hard thought.

FYI: We are working on another Vlog we hope to release it next week.

And, again, as was to be expected.. we reply to THIS^ post, only, instead of ANY valid critical post.

GJ.

[MischiefSC]

So tell me which critical post was valid. he responded to many in the CW thread already. Someone throwing a tantrum isn't valid critical comments. It's just throwing a tantrum.