55 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

i know its abit odd to ask,
but is there anyway the Summoner/Nova can be changed,
to allow for us to remove Jump-Jets from these Omni-mechs?
(this List May Grow when Clan WAVE 2 Comes out)

As the Adder its Clearly stated that the Flamer is Fixed to the chassis,
but for the Summoner/Nova, i have found no example of Jump-Jets being fixed,
so why cant we then remove them like the KitFox-S/TimberWolf-S?


what would this do for players if we could remove Jump-Jets?
well it would free another 2-5 tons of space within their chassis,
2-5 tons= +2-5 more DHS, armor, ammo, auxiliary equipment,

also since their competitors(StormCrow/TimberWolf) have more free Tonnage,
i feel this would give these mechs a slight buff to even them out abit more,


also on the ground of free weight after armor in clan-mechs,
Clan-Lights=.............KitFox(30T)- 16.04 Free Tons,..........Adder(35T)- 16.01 Free Tons,
Clan-Mediums=........Nova(50)- 16.00 Free Tons,..............StormCrow(55)- 23.02 Free Tons,
Clan-Heavies=.........Summoner(70)- 22.52 Free Tons,.....TimberWolf(75)- 27.52 Free Tons,
Clan-Assaults=........WarHawk(85)- 32.51 Free Tons,........DireWolf(100)- 50.50 Free Tons,
so the extra 2-5 tons of optional Jump-Jets would make these mechs more competitive,


id like to know what other Players think on the Grounds of Jump-Jets,
i feel allowing the removal of these Jump-Jets would help these mechs,
thanks,


Edit- Spelling,
Edit2- Mech-Comparison,
Edit3- Russ a shout out to PGI,
Edit4- Topic Name Changed,

this is a shout out too Russ,
if you happen across this Topic, Please Post your thoughts,
there are many Opinions on both sides of this Remove Jump-Jets Topic,
if possible could you and your team run a quick test to see if this is viable?
Thanks, and thanks again for your work on MWO,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 18 September 2014 - 08:23 PM.

[Pika]

I don't think you'd ever get that with the Summoner. If I remember rightly in the BT lore it's entire gimmick and point was that it was incredibly agile and would spend more time bounding along rooftops rather than fighting as it does now.

For the Nova? I dunno. I don't think it'd lose anything but I can't think why you'd want to to do that either.

[Mcgral18]

Pika, on 11 September 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

For the Nova? I dunno. I don't think it'd lose anything but I can't think why you'd want to to do that either.

2 tons would be enough to pack a 12 ton piece of Dakka with some armour on both sides.

[Ultimax]

Pika, on 11 September 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

... in the BT lore it's entire gimmick and point was that it was incredibly agile and would spend more time bounding along rooftops rather than fighting as it does now.

Sounds about right...

Pika, on 11 September 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

For the Nova? I dunno. I don't think it'd lose anything but I can't think why you'd want to to do that either.

Because I only need one to two JJs but THE BEAST MUST FEED ON MOAR HEATSINKS!!!!

[Scratx]

Sorry, under current rules omnimechs are stuck with their fixed gear.

Love it or hate it, Nova and Summoner are stuck with jumpjets.

[Andi Nagasia]

the thing is KitFox-S/TimberWolf-S have Re-moveable/Movable Jump-jets on the Torso(L/C/R)/Legs(L/R),
however the Summoner/Nova do not & there is nothing that i have found that says they Have to have them,

with the Adder its Clearly stated that the Flamer is Fixed to the Chassis,
as so far i have not found a Reason for the Jump-Jets to be Fixed(un-removable),

could some one see if they can find an instance in the Tech-docs,
Clearly stating Jump-Jets being or not-being Fixed to the Chassis,

also lore saying they are highly mobile/agile, and have jump-jets,
is not a valid in-game excuse for saying that they are fixed to them,

this Jump-Jet wouldn't be much of a buff but a slight use change,
but it would bring Novas Free Tonnage up from 16 to 20, closer to StormCrows 23 Free Ton,
it would also bring Summoners Free Tonnage from 22 to 26, closer to TimberWolf 28 Free Tons,

thanks,

Edit- spelling,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 18 September 2014 - 08:17 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Fixed JJs always confused me. If an Omni was meant to be versatile, why have locked gear above bare necessities (including Sinks in the engine)?

[Scratx]

Andi Nagasia, on 15 September 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

what are your thoughts on the Nova and Summoner being allowed to remove JJ for an extra 2-5 tons?

Why not allow upgrading to endo-steel and ferro-fibrous instead? If we're going to change the rules, that one's easier to do and fixes more problems than it creates. Probably.

Joseph Mallan, on 15 September 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

Fixed JJs always confused me. If an Omni was meant to be versatile, why have locked gear above bare necessities (including Sinks in the engine)?

For the same reason the majority of mechs are deliberately unoptimized. Fluff~

Edited by Scratx, 15 September 2014 - 06:41 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 September 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

Fixed JJs always confused me. If an Omni was meant to be versatile, why have locked gear above bare necessities (including Sinks in the engine)?

Because anything else would have made all Clan Omnis in the board game over the top - not only TimberWolf and Stormcrow (you know about the MK1 Omnis)

[Andi Nagasia]

Scratx, on 15 September 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

Why not allow upgrading to endo-steel and ferro-fibrous instead? If we're going to change the rules, that one's easier to do and fixes more problems than it creates. Probably.

because Omni rules state the key internals cannot be changed, armor and structure are key internals
sorry but i dont see JJ as Key Internals, also if so, the KitFox-S/TimberWolf-S would have them Fixed as well,

again this change would only benefit Nova/Summoner, two which seem underpowered to others in their Class,
each has 5 JJ, which weigh 0.5-1.0 Tons, so it will only add 2.5-5 Tons, just enough for more DHS or Ammo,

Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 18 September 2014 - 08:19 PM.

[Nightmare1]

The Nova could use it although it is playable without unlocked JJs. The Summoner, on the other hand, is crippled by the locked JJs. I have greater firepower on my IS Mediums than I do on that Clan Heavy...

[Empyrus]

Andi Nagasia, on 15 September 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

because Omni rules state the key internals cannot be changed, armor and structure are key internals
sorry but i dont see JJ as Key Internals, also if so, the KitFox-S/TimberWolf-S would have them Fixed as well,

again this change would only benefit Nova/Summoner, two which seem underpowered to others in their Class,
each has 5 JJ, which weigh 0.5-1.0 Tons, so it will only add 2.5-5 Tons, just enough for more DHS or Ammo,

Omni rules state quite clearly that any equipment fixed to the base chassis cannot be changed (fluff reason for fixed equipment is simpler construction and easier maintenance, and sometimes odd design choices).
Fixed JJs should stay, those should get a considerable buff though, to make the mechs really benefit from their fixed equipment.

[Lightfoot]

Pika, on 11 September 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

I don't think you'd ever get that with the Summoner. If I remember rightly in the BT lore it's entire gimmick and point was that it was incredibly agile and would spend more time bounding along rooftops rather than fighting as it does now.

For the Nova? I dunno. I don't think it'd lose anything but I can't think why you'd want to to do that either.

Unfortunately PGI nerfed jump jets so you don't get the rated altitude anymore, so the agility is just not there. Let me jump over hills and small buildings easily in the Summoner and you might have a point. Since we don't actually have TT Battle Tech jump jets on these mechs we should be allowed to remove them. Nerf is as nerf does and useless equals the ability to remove said useless item.

You can't fairly have TT when it suits you and turn it off where it doesn't.

Also the Summoner is not incredibly agile in any way. it handles like a normal average Heavy Mech.

Edited by Lightfoot, 16 September 2014 - 09:06 AM.

[Empyrus]

Lightfoot, on 16 September 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

Unfortunately PGI nerfed jump jets so you don't get the rated altitude anymore, so the agility is just not there. Let me jump over hills and small buildings easily in the Summoner and you might have a point. Since we don't actually have TT Battle Tech jump jets on these mechs we should be allowed to remove them. Nerf is as nerf does and useless equals the ability to remove said useless item.

You can't fairly have TT when it suits you and turn it off where it doesn't.

Also the Summoner is not incredibly agile in any way. it handles like a normal average Heavy Mech.

How about we'd rather get powerful jump jets (jump sniping can be countered in other ways), rather than start tweaking the Omnimechs? Or just give the Summoner and Nova super JJs quirk.

[Bhael Fire]

Pika, on 11 September 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

I don't think you'd ever get that with the Summoner. If I remember rightly in the BT lore it's entire gimmick and point was that it was incredibly agile and would spend more time bounding along rooftops rather than fighting as it does now.

But that's the problem; it's not incredibly agile and it doesn't bounce so well with the last jump nerf.

[Lightfoot]

Bhael Fire, on 16 September 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

But that's the problem; it's not incredibly agile and it doesn't bounce so well with the last jump nerf.

QFT.

If we can't have BT jump jets and a super agile Summoner the fair thing to do is give it removable jump jets and some type of movement buff, 'Mech Turn' buff is appropriate for a Thor.

[Dracol]

Pika, on 11 September 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

I don't think you'd ever get that with the Summoner. If I remember rightly in the BT lore it's entire gimmick and point was that it was incredibly agile and would spend more time bounding along rooftops rather than fighting as it does now.

Lots of fun piloting Summoners like this. Good practice to up your piloting skill.

Empyrus, on 16 September 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

How about we'd rather get powerful jump jets (jump sniping can be countered in other ways), rather than start tweaking the Omnimechs? Or just give the Summoner and Nova super JJs quirk.

Summoner JJ quirk buff I can see being dead on. As said before, its a known jumper/agile platform.

The Nova is see leaning towards Awesome like heat buffs since its specialty is the large number of lasers.

[Mcgral18]

How about that hardwired Active Probe in the Koshi....It's over 10% of the pod space!

6.5 tons when you nearly max that armour...

Edited by Mcgral18, 16 September 2014 - 09:57 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Lightfoot, on 16 September 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

You can't fairly have TT when it suits you and turn it off where it doesn't.

Uhh yeah we can.

[Jonny Taco]

2 of summoner's and nova's Jump Jets should be removable... JJ thrust amounts on heavies need to be addressed as well... SMN with 5 jj should not be getting out jumped by a victor with 4... SMN legs should have +15% thrust modifier as well as the sane balancing of thrust between assaults and heavies.