1306 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Tichorius Davion, on 16 September 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

I am sensing a lot of context and tone being lost in translation here. Lawl.

me too XD

Cause apparently I didnt say what he was saying yet the message was the same?

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 16 September 2014 - 05:31 PM.

[DEN_Ninja]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 September 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

me too XD

Cause apparently I didnt say what he was saying yet the message was the same?

It is just inherently wrong to write people off for single offenses. Especially for past transgressions that are already forgiven.

I don't agree with anyone that says that You, Sandpit, Roadbeer, or anyone else don't have valid opinions. I might disagree with said opinions but as far as I can tell the intent is always good.

Pretty sure we all agree on this except that Bishop wants to see it in your actions as well.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 16 September 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 September 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

I think I just said that but without the insinuation that they wouldnt change



Oh whoops I saw that backwards

No, I think we are looking at it different, unless I misread your statement. I mean, let them prove their change, here on the forums for a bit before nominating them for anything.

If any of them really are as concerned with the game as you say, they should decline nomination anyhow to remove any of the distraction it will cause.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Tichorius Davion, on 16 September 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:

It is just inherently wrong to write people off for single offenses. Especially for past transgressions that are already forgiven.

I don't agree with anyone that says that You, Sandpit, Roadbeer, or anyone else don't have valid opinions. I might disagree with said opinions but as far as I can tell the intent is always good.

What I was saying is to look at the vote spread

Homeless Bill 63 (mod/owner to HPGOutreach which is seen as knight central on Reddit)

Konivig 55

Adiuvo 27

Roland 27 (Ive been gone so long I dont know your stance here anymore)

JagerXII 22

Peiper 13

Livewyr 11

VXJaeger 10

TheMagician 10

Sandpit 9 (WAS very white knight but then changed dont know where he is now)

Roadbeer 9 (the only very vocal name that I know here)

Heimdelight 9

[DEN_Ninja]

Ha... Ha... haaaaa

Homeless Bill...

a white knight?

Oh mein sides.

Edit: He could be dumped in a buck of white knights and the bucket would be full of dead white knights with a fierce white rabbit instead.

Live is pretty supportive.

Roland is very critical of PGI and Co.

Jager actually has some pretty good strong opinions if you ever listen to him.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 16 September 2014 - 05:43 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 September 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

No, I think we are looking at it different, unless I misread your statement. I mean, let them prove their change, here on the forums for a bit before nominating them for anything.

If any of them really are as concerned with the game as you say, they should decline nomination anyhow to remove any of the distraction it will cause.

So youre saying the unbanned should forgive and forget the history of PGI (as was said to standingcow on reddit) but we should expect to have our histories held against us? How exactly is that fair?

Tichorius Davion, on 16 September 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

Ha... Ha... haaaaa

Homeless Bill...

a white knight?

Oh mein sides.

Other than his very bipolar attitude, yes he VERY much is and HPG VERY much is considered that. But then, Im a /r/mwo type of guy since Im banned from HPG lol So I havent seen his latest stance on anything because I dont go to HPG (being that Im banned)

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 16 September 2014 - 05:45 PM.

[DEN_Ninja]

Trust me when I say this as probably one of the longer standing 'white knights' that Bill is hardly erring on the side of supportive.

When PGI does good he's quick to praise but when PGI does bad he is quicker to criticize. It is the reason why so many people vote for him. He's so in the middle its amazing.

He's only in control of /r/Outreachhpg because Serious stepped down and he was the most reasonable choice despite his earlier actions.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Tichorius Davion, on 16 September 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

Trust me when I say this as probably one of the longer standing 'white knights' that Bill is hardly erring on the side of supportive.

When PGI does good he's quick to praise but when PGI does bad he is quicker to criticize. It is the reason why so many people vote for him. He's so in the middle its amazing.

He's only in control of /r/Outreachhpg because Serious stepped down and he was the most reasonable choice despite his earlier actions.

I was there and was talking to serious when he did it, ya I know how/why that happened

ID suggested he pull it down with him. But thats me. Table had said he'd rather watch it destroy itself

AND ya I was there when Bill went on a one man rant against /r/mwo and stepped down from being a mod. Table was a good man and was VERY in the middle but he was forced to step down by that community which was sad

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 16 September 2014 - 05:51 PM.

[Hoax415]

Russ Bullock, on 16 September 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

Okay everybody.

I want to try and move this concept forward, obviously this is a tough one with no shortage of ideas. There are a decent number of people out there that still are opposed to the concept or at least are somewhat fearful of the outcome.

I want to again assure everyone that were going to take this nice and slow and see if we can't create something that works for MWO. I won't go out and commit to a system that is already out there like say EVE, perhaps we end up there perhaps we don't. I am more interested in finding a nice balance between PGI and it's community. That is the starting point I think we all agree.

Ideally I think it should be a small manageable number, 12 is likley at the very far end of managable, but we also want to make sure everyone is represented.

The only idea I have currently is to take this thread, invite everyone that has been nominated to a teamspeak server. The first order of business will be discussing together how we can widdle that group down a manageable size, vote on that group of players for perhaps a certain "term"?

Once they are in place we can focus on our first Subject whether that remains ECM or perhaps a softball or two out the gate.

Thoughts?

This sounds solid, perhaps 8 is a more manageable number to start with.

I strongly strongly strongly advise dealing with a softball issue first. If the trial run of this is an utter failure its going to be DOA as a concept but having them try to take on ECM, which is so deeply connected with other game systems is just too much too soon.

It will take several tries before we understand what kind of proposal is useful and what kind is less than. The council itself will have to go through all sorts of growing pains and iterations. A softball to start with is a much better plan than throwing them into the deep end right away with ECM.

Additionally I feel ECM is a bad bad community guidance issue. There are very very strong feelings on LRM's on both sides of the spectrum. That's really something you as the developer with more data and hopefully a more distant perspective can separate the feelings from the facts to make the correct call on.

tl;dr softball first pls. I trust PGI more than the council to deal with ECM and indirect LRM fire. ECM is too powerful but what can be done to tone it down and how should it be done is too complex for the council's dry run.

Edited by Hoax415, 16 September 2014 - 05:50 PM.

[DEN_Ninja]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 September 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

I was there and was talking to serious when he did it, ya I know how/why that happened

ID suggested he pull it down with him. But thats me. Table had said he'd rather watch it destroy itself

AND ya I was there when Bill went on a one man rant against /r/mwo and stepped down from being a mod. Table was a good man and was VERY in the middle but he was forced to step down by that community which was sad

Bill is kind of crazy. Probably why he's homeless.

-shrug- I'd actually vote for Serious over Bill if he

Seriously considered it.

Edit: Mother of god, after 3 years i've hit a thousand.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 16 September 2014 - 05:55 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 September 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

So youre saying the unbanned should forgive and forget the history of PGI (as was said to standingcow on reddit) but we should expect to have our histories held against us? How exactly is that fair?



Other than his very bipolar attitude, yes he VERY much is and HPG VERY much is considered that. But then, Im a /r/mwo type of guy since Im banned from HPG lol

I say forgive, not forget.

And as many of the Unbanned have said, and the Black Knights....let PGI prove it. Funnily enough, I used the flip side of your argument for why non banned should be on this particular council. Let them prove it first. At one point they lost that trust. If PGI has to re-earn it, so should they.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 September 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

I say forgive, not forget.

And as many of the Unbanned have said, and the Black Knights....let PGI prove it. Funnily enough, I used the flip side of your argument for why non banned should be on this particular council. Let them prove it first. At one point they lost that trust. If PGI has to re-earn it, so should they.

Then have a way to vet these people where banned and not banned can show their true colors

ID say let the first cut off be who still plays. ppl who dont or havent within a set timeframe are lost customers and wont be eligible for the council

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 16 September 2014 - 05:57 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 September 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

Then have a way to vet these people where banned and not banned can show their true colors. Put the voting process and council formation off until that trust can be established for BOTH sides. That will work wont it?

Since It's a one time thing, for a single issue, why wait? If this works, there will be other issues put forth, and discussed. Being nominated now certainly does not mean one will be on future councils. But sorry if you dislike it, but there are several who had a very vocal, agenda against PGI. Just walking in the door saying sorry doesn't set all at ease that their agenda is still not there.

Time will.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 September 2014 - 05:58 PM, said:

Since It's a one time thing, for a single issue, why wait? If this works, there will be other issues put forth, and discussed. Being nominated now certainly does not mean one will be on future councils. But sorry if you dislike it, but there are several who had a very vocal, agenda against PGI. Just walking in the door saying sorry doesn't set all at ease that their agenda is still not there.

Time will.

Becausae if you take a group that is mostly comprised of ppl that look like knights (and are joking about shining up their armor in another thread) then the other side of the argument will see it as a knight only club and your message will get lost in the rabble. Thatd as bad as failure in some ways, unless thats what ppl are looking for.

bah I editted that to get rid of the snark -.-

ID say let the first cut off be who still plays. ppl who dont or havent within a set timeframe are lost customers and wont be eligible for the council

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 16 September 2014 - 06:01 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 September 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

Becausae if you take a group that is mostly comprised of ppl that look like knights (and are joking about shining up their armor in another thread) then the other side of the argument will see it as a knight only club and your message will get lost in the rabble. Thatd as bad as failure in some ways, unless thats what ppl are looking for.

bah I editted that to get rid of the snark -.-

ID say let the first cut off be who still plays. ppl who dont or havent within a set timeframe are lost customers and wont be eligible for the council

I'm not looking for white knights to be nominated. Heck I nominated Roland. Who I disagree with, quite a bit. But I trust him to take the job serious, and not have an agenda. I removed myself because I felt I was not best qualified, and my notoriety would be a distraction from results. You don't see me pushing for CDLord either. By the same token I don't feel it is best for the community, yet, for you, Vass, Sand, Roadbeer, et al to represent, either.

But I do push for people like Homeless Bill and Roland and Strum Wealh because I want results.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 16 September 2014 - 06:07 PM.

[DEN_Ninja]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 September 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

Becausae if you take a group that is mostly comprised of ppl that look like knights (and are joking about shining up their armor in another thread) then the other side of the argument will see it as a knight only club and your message will get lost in the rabble. Thatd as bad as failure in some ways, unless thats what ppl are looking for.

bah I editted that to get rid of the snark -.-

ID say let the first cut off be who still plays. ppl who dont or havent within a set timeframe are lost customers and wont be eligible for the council

Ah the crux of the situation. I see what Buddha means.

A fair amount of us represent a more supportive view in your mind and you feel this tilts the balance in a player council in terms of opinions. Bishop just wants to make sure of everyone's character. I'm okay with everything... because of those that are unbanned or to be 'black knights' I've known to be quite sensible.

Edit: I'd let Russ do his Teamspeak Chat and hammer out all these details. We can bring it up when we do our talk.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 16 September 2014 - 06:11 PM.

[Chronojam]

Tichorius Davion, on 16 September 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

Only way to really get a good gauge of the community in my opinion are in game client polls. Give them a reason to give a crap while you are at it. Along with places to look up things so they can make their own judgements.

Without a doubt, MWO would benefit from polls; linked on the front page and the launcher (or even ingame if that's reasonable to rig up for a quick patch). Get it in people's faces, as many as is reasonable.

[DEN_Ninja]

Chronojam, on 16 September 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Without a doubt, MWO would benefit from polls; linked on the front page and the launcher (or even ingame if that's reasonable to rig up for a quick patch). Get it in people's faces, as many as is reasonable.

Heeey, missed your face too Chrono.

I am all for pushing these issues into people's faces. Ignorance is no longer an excuse at that point.

[RobinSage]

I edited the post Bishop.....thank you. And that was my initial thoughts as well.

[RaKa]

Right then, I hereby nominate the following 5 people. Homeless BIll, Konivig, JagerXII, TheMagician and Adiuvo.

Best of luck to everyone else!