1306 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

The player "council" (as I've understood it) is just a mouthpiece for the ideas the entire community comes up with. They aren't guiding or directing anything (other than maybe help keep posts on-topic and such), they're just there to help collect the data, streamline it, maybe help refine them for people who aren't real articulate or whose first language isn't english.

This shouldn't be confused with "elected representation", completely different deal there.

[FactorlanP]

Sandpit, on 17 September 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

This shouldn't be confused with "elected representation", completely different deal there.

If you're correct, then why are we having this long drawn out process and discussion about nominating and voting etc etc?

Edited by FactorlanP, 17 September 2014 - 01:22 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Some of the arguments against are exactly why this is a good idea. Anyone who had kept up with everything Russ has said would know he's already looking at other topics and that whatever they start with is just a test case. I get that not everyone has the time and inclination to read every post on a topic -

Some people do. Those people are going to be better suited to provide feedback to everyone else. Anyone who didn't know the council has no authority and probably isn't going to start with ECM is exactly why the council is useful. If PGI took the feedback from many of the people here it would be derived from people who either didn't understand the topic or who didn't have the time or energy or interest in understanding the topic. Regardless the feedback from that would be less useful.

Edited by MischiefSC, 17 September 2014 - 01:31 PM.

[Peter2k]

FactorlanP, on 17 September 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

If you're correct, then why are we having this long drawn out process and discussion about nominating and voting etc etc?

Most likely because they thought they could have a mature rational discussion of who might be a good addition as a candidate

Edited by Peter2k, 17 September 2014 - 01:29 PM.

[Rebas Kradd]

Sandpit, on 17 September 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

The player "council" (as I've understood it) is just a mouthpiece for the ideas the entire community comes up with. They aren't guiding or directing anything (other than maybe help keep posts on-topic and such), they're just there to help collect the data, streamline it, maybe help refine them for people who aren't real articulate or whose first language isn't english.

This shouldn't be confused with "elected representation", completely different deal there.

They're basically a secretary.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 17 September 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Some of the arguments against are exactly why this is a good idea. Anyone who had kept up with everything Russ has said would know he's already looking at other topics and that whatever they start with is just a test case. I get that not everyone has the time and inclination to read every post on a topic -

Some people do. Those people are going to be better suited to provide feedback to everyone else. Anyone who didn't know the council has no authority assn probably isn't going to start with ECM is exactly why the council is useful. If PGI took the feedback from many of the people here it would be derived from people who either didn't understand the topic or who didn't have the time or energy or interest in understanding the topic. Regardless the feedback from that would be less useful.

I don't argue that.

I support it.

But seriously, how long does this topic need, to run it's course?

If a person has not been nominated by now, or nominated themselves, they are not paying enough attention to what is going on to be used for this. And since this is a temporary position, with NO REAL POWER, on the slim chance someone who would have been was on vacation, it shouldn't really rankle them anyhow. And again, if they would be upset, are they really looking at it from the communities best interest, or their own.

At this point, all the good that can be squeezed from this OP; has been. We are recycling pre-squeezed lemons on here.

It's past time to lock this topic, and move forward with collating the data found, to pass to Russ, to prepare to move on with whatever the next step should be.

[Peter2k]

Rebas Kradd, on 17 September 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

They're basically a secretary.

They're also fine with it

They're fine with sacrifice they're free time to hopefully help all players.

---------------------------

I still don't see why some have a problem with that

Worst case scenario is that those on the "council" waste they're time, and nothing comes out of it.
So how would that be bad for the players that don't agree with them.

It's not like a Heimdelight can run around promoting PPFLD and JJ boosts and Paul or Russ are gonna implement it like puppets or something.

Edited by Peter2k, 17 September 2014 - 01:34 PM.

[KingCobra]

Sandpit said (The player "council" (as I've understood it) is just a mouthpiece for the ideas the entire community comes up with. They aren't guiding or directing anything (other than maybe help keep posts on-topic and such), they're just there to help collect the data, streamline it, maybe help refine them for people who aren't real articulate or whose first language isn't english.

This shouldn't be confused with "elected representation", completely different deal there. )

Your correct but what if you or I summited a post about AC20 good or bad and it was well written and informative about the subject but certain player counsel member decided it was not what they wanted to see happen? don't you think those posts would be excluded? that's my point. And why player counsels are bad news.
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FactorlanP said ( If you're correct, then why are we having this long drawn out process and discussion about nominating and voting etc etc.? )

Because when a small minority of the player base can collect the data they seem worthy and submit it for a proposal over the objections of the majority of the player base it is never a wise or good outcome for the company involved and a waste of resources and time..

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 September 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

um. i didn't, tyvm you are welcome?

CAN you post without giving that attitude? Because its funny how ppl demonize the guys that got banned for exactly this thing when its you doing it now

[Roadbeer]

This thread... I don't even.

Started as a good idea, and as always, the Forumites have turned it into something vile and evil.

gtclose

[Bishop Steiner]

Rebas Kradd, on 17 September 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

They're basically a secretary.

exactly this. If anything, it's about as inglourious a post as one can ask. And as such, I think we are past done with beating the dead horse. LEts close this, and either move forward, or not.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Roadbeer, on 17 September 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

This thread... I don't even.

Started as a good idea, and as always, the Forumites have turned it into something vile and evil.

gtclose

And this whole thing is expected to be done on the forums....

I gotta agree with road here

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 September 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

CAN you post without giving that attitude? Because its funny how ppl demonize the guys that got banned for exactly this thing when its you doing it now

wow, you mean the exact same attitude from your accusation "I dont remember typing that so yea, try reading what I wrong rather than pretending I said something else, eh? Dont put words in my mouth please, thanks" that you wrongly lobbed at me?

Seriously, not the time or post to get mad at me over bro. You jump my crap, over your misunderstanding, then are upset I lob it back to you?

For real?

[Rebas Kradd]

KingCobra, on 17 September 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

Your correct but what if you or I summited a post about AC20 good or bad and it was well written and informative about the subject but certain player counsel member decided it was not what they wanted to see happen? don't you think those posts would be excluded? that's my point. And why player counsels are bad news.

If the council is well put-together, that won't happen. And YOU are the ones voting to make sure that the council is diverse and tries to capture the opinions of everyone.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

MischiefSC, on 17 September 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Some of the arguments against are exactly why this is a good idea. Anyone who had kept up with everything Russ has said would know he's already looking at other topics and that whatever they start with is just a test case. I get that not everyone has the time and inclination to read every post on a topic -

Some people do. Those people are going to be better suited to provide feedback to everyone else. Anyone who didn't know the council has no authority and probably isn't going to start with ECM is exactly why the council is useful. If PGI took the feedback from many of the people here it would be derived from people who either didn't understand the topic or who didn't have the time or energy or interest in understanding the topic. Regardless the feedback from that would be less useful.

There should be a game wide vote asking if a player made council is needed or wanted. Because that base using the small % of the forums, you may come back with a reply that this isnt needed OR wanted by the majority of ppl that dont come here.

Peter2k, on 17 September 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Most likely because they thought they could have a mature rational discussion of who might be a good addition as a candidate

which apparently cant happen here as this thread is quickly becoming proof of

[Bishop Steiner]

Roadbeer, on 17 September 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

This thread... I don't even.

Started as a good idea, and as always, the Forumites have turned it into something vile and evil.

gtclose

Yup. Which of course, was the entire goal for some.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 September 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

Yup. Which of course, was the entire goal for some.

....and it starts

Tinfoiling already? Who wanted this discussion destroyed? Am I one? It it the "bad" people here?

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 17 September 2014 - 01:40 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 September 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

And this whole thing is expected to be done on the forums....

I gotta agree with road here

So, I came into this thinking "Hey, maybe the Forumites really want to see things changed, and maybe the "Council" will get to take all the disparate ideas about (insert hot topic here) and make a cohesive plan of action, that'll be satisfying to the players, and low impact on programming needs"

Watching the last 60 pages I've come to realize two things.

1. I'm not a secretary. It's not my job to compile suggestions into a list to hand off to Devs. That's the Community Managers job.
2. If all of you were to design ANYTHING implemented into the game, it would look like this.



Call me when you guys want to accomplish something. Until then, please remove my name from the list of those considered.

(Note to Russ, I'm not saying this to sabotage your plan, I think it's a good one. Just not something I feel I want to take part in at this time)

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Roadbeer, on 17 September 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

Call me when you guys want to accomplish something. Until then, please remove my name from the list of those considered.

(Note to Russ, I'm not saying this to sabotage your plan, I think it's a good one. Just not something I feel I want to take part in at this time)

Agreed

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 September 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

....and it starts

Tinfoiling already?

Actually, started back in post 1210..... I'd say the time to re-read the post you ascribed to me, and jumped my crap over, but it has been removed. Your "issue" is with King Cobra, not me. Excuse me for not appreciating your attitude over it.

So maybe now if YOU get off your own high horse?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 17 September 2014 - 01:44 PM.