132 replies to this topic

[PappySmurf]

Leave ECM alone all you bishop and many others have done is let PGI off the hook once again by Claiming ECM is such a terrible problem it needs fixed when so many more pressing issues with the game go unresolved like new maps, New game modes of play, new social aspects of the game (Live Chat Lobby System)and previous bug fixes.

So I say and many others RUSS leave ECM alone its not that big of a deal right now and you and your staff concentrate on Content which is long over due.

If you feel the same way please post in this thread so PGI knows your point of view on what comes first and matters most in the development of MWO.

ME
#1 new maps
#2 new game modes=stock and IS Vs Clan
#3 new chat/lobby=new MSN gamming zone lobby like at MWOLOBBY.com in UI2.0
#4 fix all game bugs
#5 new mechlab with savable multiple configurations like in past PC MechWarrior games
#6 new mm launch method =map then pick able mech configuration then launch battle like older MechWarrior was.
#7 CW
#8 new MM with no ELO or server AI just match by mech tonnage and let players play on skill alone to determine battles.
#9 new tutorial PVE mission for new players
#10 PVE missions and coop play

Edited by PappySmurf, 14 September 2014 - 07:23 AM.

[M3 SABLE]

But Pappy...

Think about the "new players"!

"New players" will have no idea how to fight against ECM if decide to lrm boat.

"New players"! ...Oh wait...

Edited by Unikron, 14 September 2014 - 07:25 AM.

[El Bandito]

We are not letting PGI off the hook. Bishop had made clear of that in another thread. PGI still has the responsibility to finish what they started, in time.

ECM has been a balance problem since its inception 3 years ago. PGI, and especially Paul, had been completely ignoring our pleas for ECM rework all this time. Now that Russ is willing to listen, I personally, am not letting this chance go to waste.

No matter how small of a change, if ECM rework goes though, it will be one small but significant victory for the majority of the forum community.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 September 2014 - 10:15 AM.

[Livewyr]

Seems someone here forgot that the artists that work on maps and such have nothing to do with coding features.

[Mcgral18]

Magic Jesus Box is bad, and you should feel bad.

Let's see what ECM does:

Quote

The Guardian ECM Suite was introduced in 2597 by the Terran Hegemony[1]. Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems, the Guardian is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.[2]

Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming.

The Capellan Confederation expanded the utility of the Guardian even more with the introduction of Stealth Armor.[3] Contemporary guided missiles such as standard LRM or Streak SRMs are not affected by the Guardian suite and will be able to achieve hard lock as normal.[4]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Guardian_ECM

I'll just highlight this part:

Quote

Contemporary guided missiles such as standard LRM or Streak SRMs are not affected by the Guardian suite and will be able to achieve hard lock as normal.

Angel ECM can indeed stop Streaks from firing guided missiles, at two tons and two crits.



Stealth armour:

Quote

The finest achievement in stealth systems developed by the original Star League, the Null Signature System was capable of shielding a BattleMech from electronic detection.

BattleMech Stealth Armor provides as much protection as standard armor. It takes up two critical slots in each arm, leg, and side torso. To work, it also requires the 'Mech to carry a Guardian ECM Suite.[1]

The system can be activated or deactivated in the End Phase of any turn. When active the system builds up 10 heat points, and is affected as if it is in range of an enemy ECM Suite. Any unit attacking a BattleMech with active Stealth Armor gets a +1 hit penalty at medium range and a +2 hit penalty at long range. The Stealth Armored BattleMech cannot be a secondary target while the system is active.[6]

http://www.sarna.net.../Stealth_Armour



Guess what Magic Jesus Box does...without any extra crits, tons, or heat? For the small package of 1.5 tons, it even blocks lvl1 LRMs, which it simply shouldn't.

A rework would be nice, though calling for changes to indirect fire is reasonable. Perhaps a larger spread and worse tracking, to simulate the to hit penalty of indirect fire.

[PappySmurf]

First off if PGI pulls off of CW or other projects to fix ECM which is playable and counter able those other more important features will be another 3 years coming to implementation.Plus the fact if they don't take there time implementing a viable ECM change that balances were all in for another LRM AGGEDDON and im really not up for that again.

[Mcgral18]

PappySmurf, on 14 September 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

First off if PGI pulls off of CW or other projects to fix ECM which is playable and counter able those other more important features will be another 3 years coming to implementation.Plus the fact if they don't take there time implementing a viable ECM change that balances were all in for another LRM AGGEDDON and im really not up for that again.

There won't be a Lurmageddon.

You new players don't know about Lurmageddon. With LRMs that travel closer to 200 M/s, that deal 1.8 damage per missile, which was increased by Splash damage in a 2M diameter, hitting every hitbox in that area, with divebombing nearly 90 degree missiles due to Artemis.


There won't be a Lurmageddon. There will just be bads whining.

[PappySmurf]

McGrail I hope your not saying im a noob pal been playing since MW2 have seen every incarnation of the IP series and gameplay plus I have been with MWO since the first day online on another account.

So If they nerf ECM wrong I will guarantee LRM AGGEDDON will arrive once more to rear its ugly head and the whining will be loader than ever.Plus I would rather see new players protected by ECM than missiled to death in less than 30 seconds which = a quick uninstall.MechWarrior was about skill and being able to play in a mech longer than 1 minute per battle unless you forgot PC MechWarrior? If you have go reinstall it and relearn what MechWarrior should be all about not Paper doll MWO .

[Mcgral18]

PappySmurf, on 14 September 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

McGrail I hope your not saying im a noob pal been playing since MW2 have seen every incarnation of the IP series and gameplay plus I have been with MWO since the first day online on another account.

So If they nerf ECM wrong I will guarantee LRM AGGEDDON will arrive once more to rear its ugly head and the whining will be loader than ever.Plus I would rather see new players protected by ECM than missiled to death in less than 30 seconds which = a quick uninstall.MechWarrior was about skill and being able to play in a mech longer than 1 minute per battle unless you forgot PC MechWarrior? If you have go reinstall it and relearn what MechWarrior should be all about not Paper doll MWO .

MW1, 2, 3, 4 and MWLL all have paperdolls, or HATLs, or the choice to pick the one you prefer.

Bads whine about lurms now, they'll whine about lurms then. There won't be a lurmageddon, since LRMs have pretty terrible stats. They are still garbage compared what the used to be, but better than the terribad nerf, at 100ish M/s and 0.7 damage per missile. Just about half of the overbuffed stats.


We don't have that.

[M3 SABLE]

Mcgral18, on 14 September 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

MW1, 2, 3, 4 and MWLL all have paperdolls, or HATLs, or the choice to pick the one you prefer.

Bads whine about lurms now, they'll whine about lurms then. There won't be a lurmageddon, since LRMs have pretty terrible stats. They are still garbage compared what the used to be, but better than the terribad nerf, at 100ish M/s and 0.7 damage per missile. Just about half of the overbuffed stats.


We don't have that.

If it is that bad, then ask for LRM buff. Increase risk-reward where successful assault and communication with Light taggers/narc, leads to great damage output from LRM batteries?

[Mudhutwarrior]

I really don't think its a bad idea to go after ECM. I do totally dislike the committee idea though for many reasons. Biggest is the forum does not accurately represent the player base. I prefer some kind of ingame polling instead.

I kind of leave it to the guys more experienced with the game and lore on this issue as I am pretty new to gaming overall. I am sure it needs tweaking from what I have read so far.

Instead of arguing over priority's in game lets just leave that to PGI as they handle resources. Just let everyone here have their say and hope that PGI listens.

[Mcgral18]

Unikron, on 14 September 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

If it is that bad, then ask for LRM buff. Increase risk-reward where successful assault and communication with Light taggers/narc, leads to great damage output from LRM batteries?

Honestly, you can't balance LRMs against the Magic Jesus Box. What happens when you go against someone without Magic Jesus Box?

Apparently, most players can't advance using cover, and will be destroyed.

[M3 SABLE]

Mudhutwarrior, on 14 September 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

I really don't think its a bad idea to go after ECM. I do totally dislike the committee idea though for many reasons. Biggest is the forum does not accurately represent the player base. I prefer some kind of ingame polling instead.

I kind of leave it to the guys more experienced with the game and lore on this issue as I am pretty new to gaming overall. I am sure it needs tweaking from what I have read so far.

Instead of arguing over priority's in game lets just leave that to PGI as they handle resources. Just let everyone here have their say and hope that PGI listens.

Vocal minority of 3 people, cause so much ruckus. I especially like the argument where they "selflessly" do that, for the sake of poor "new players".

[El Bandito]

Unikron, on 14 September 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

If it is that bad, then ask for LRM buff. Increase risk-reward where successful assault and communication with Light taggers/narc, leads to great damage output from LRM batteries?

That's not the issue. The issue is that there should not be hard counters against a whole weapon class. 1.5 ton equipment cockblocking 20-30 tons worth of weapons on multiple mechs is ridiculous.

Imagine if there was a 1.5 ton weapon that disables all PPC projectiles. Not fair for those who brought PPCs, right?

Edited by El Bandito, 14 September 2014 - 08:17 AM.

[M3 SABLE]

Mcgral18, on 14 September 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

Honestly, you can't balance LRMs against the Magic Jesus Box. What happens when you go against someone without Magic Jesus Box?

Apparently, most players can't advance using cover, and will be destroyed.

Magic Jesus box, became a merely an attribute of some mechs since Clan arrival. Not some OP counter measure.

Clan beat so much **** out of people, that no one even mentions it in the game unlike before. You must be living in the past or something.

And don't give this nonsense about "U mad bro, u bad! Y u no use cover like pro?".

Try doing that in a 100 ton mech, when your primary map rotation are Alpine Peaks and Caustic Valley.

El Bandito, on 14 September 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

That's not the issue. The issue is that there should not be hard counters against a whole weapon class. 1.5 ton equipment cockblocking 20-30 tons worth of weapons is ridiculous.

That weapon class, can also damage targets, just because one of your buddies has a lock on one of them, when for you, that target is no where near in LoS in 1km radius.

It can totally ignore the terrain, deal extreme damage, and allows you to remain safe in your position (unlike mechs that have to risk and peek out to deal damage)

PPC actually takes a lot of effort to be succesfful with, El Bandito, and it generates a lot of heat. Especially after nerf

Edited by Unikron, 14 September 2014 - 08:21 AM.

[ApolloKaras]

These fears are completely unfounded....

Have you all read some of the proposals already flying around, I'm going to go with no. This is NOT going to make an LRMageddon.

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 14 September 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

Bads whine about lurms ECM now, they'll whine about lurms ECM then. There won't be a lurmageddon is no ECM problem, since LRMs ECM have pretty terrible stats has many counters. They are still garbage much better compared what they used to be, but better than the terribad nerf, at 100ish M/s and 0.7 damage per missile. Just about half of the overbuffed stats.

"Fixed" that for you.







<I needed a break from all this seriousness. Besides, I think there are bigger fish to fry.>

[El Bandito]

Unikron, on 14 September 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

Magic Jesus box, became a merely an attribute of some mechs since Clan arrival. Not some OP counter measure.

Clan beat so much **** out of people, that no one even mentions it in the game unlike before. You must be living in the past or something.

And don't give this nonsense about "U mad bro, u bad! Y u no use cover like pro?".

Try doing that in a 100 ton mech, when your primary map rotation are Alpine Peaks and Caustic Valley.



That weapon class, can also damage targets, just because one of your buddies has a lock on one of them, when for you, that target is no where near in LoS in 1km radius.

It can totally ignore the terrain, deal extreme damage, and allows you to remain safe in your position (unlike mechs that have to risk and peek out to deal damage)

PPC actually takes a lot of effort to be succesfful with, El Bandito, and it generates a lot of heat. Especially after nerf

1. LRMs do not ignore terrain. You speak as if they can go through them.

2. LRMs only does noticeable damage when boated heavily and the damage is spread all over the mech, making it inefficient.

3. LRM boats are always at risk of getting caught as they can do nothing up close.

You are simply exaggerating LRM effectiveness while deliberately ignoring weaknesses of LRMs. That's not how one should debate.

[PappySmurf]

(Vocal minority of 3 people, cause so much ruckus. I especially like the argument where they "selflessly" do that, for the sake of poor "new players". )

Cant agree with you more on this statement.

Don't you all remember what happened when this same vocal group complained about =(JUMP JETS)? they were nerfed back to the stone age when in fact they should have been left alone they worked just fine and like ECM they were not really a big problem at all.

P.S PGI needs to concentrate on game content period unless you want to see MWO die from lack of new blood in a very short time span.

Edited by PappySmurf, 14 September 2014 - 08:28 AM.

[ApolloKaras]

Mystere, on 14 September 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

"Fixed" that for you.
<I needed a break from all this seriousness. Besides, I think there are bigger fish to fry.>

lolwut...? 1.5 piece of equipment. 2.5 tons worth of counter that still don't help targeting if its outside of 700m. You're right completely balanced. Direct Fire has always ruled the roost and will continue to do so. However ECM should not stop the LOS targeting... However there are some decent proposals out there, that really open things up, even throw some role warfare in there.


Also inferring that McGral is a bad... smh

PappySmurf, on 14 September 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

(Vocal minority of 3 people,

A lot more than 3...

Edited by Saxie, 14 September 2014 - 08:27 AM.