446 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

N0MAD, on 15 September 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

Yep yep how could i of been so misguided, your examples have totally won me over.
I can see now that a small vested percentage of the population will forever change the situation for the masses, i can see now how communisn works so well and that the masses are truly being represented.
Many thanks bro.

Nice to see you only looking at the worst case scenario. Can we get a New screen name for Debby Downer here?

[Mawai]

Horusv2, on 15 September 2014 - 04:10 AM, said:

Elitist forum neckbeards trying to get their ideas into some videogame under the agenda of "doing good for the masses"
What a load of crap. The masses dont care. And you people dont represent anybody other than yourself.
You are not shareholders.
For the record: I will vote against anything you people will come up with. This is not a democratic state but a game developed by a company. And when this company is slow or bad at making games they need to get out of business and not this pseudo community crap.
If you have good ideas build your own company or build a mod or whatever.

I'm not sure how best to respond to this ...

A council has NO direct say in how the game develops. It is up to PGI to make changes if they decide to listen to these folks.

However, in the opinion of many people (maybe not you since you seem to think that either PGI is perfect or they should go out of business because they can't make a game), PGI needs to do more listening.

EVE Online has over 200,000+ registered accounts and 30,000 to 50,000 typical online concurrent users. They also have an elected "council" that provides feedback and suggestions to CCP. Some of their suggestions get implemented but far from all. Any council like this is just another source (perhaps a more focused one) for customer feedback. The EVE Online CSM is elected by about 10% of the players actually voting.

Of course, any council initiative should come from PGI. The community will find it difficult to elect representatives in any meaningful way without engaging more of the community and to do that PGI needs to provide the tools ... a splash screen on login with a link to the election poll site run on their servers for example.

So the FIRST step is not to set up a council but to get PGI to buy into the idea of a council THEY organize since THEY think the feedback will be worthwhile ... the council can interface with player interest groups and draw up a white paper with suggestions for discussions.

On the other hand, a self-organized player council based on forum participation will be good for some feedback but will suffer from some of the short comings outlined earlier in this thread (primarily credibility).


Some things to keep in mind ...

1) MWO is FUN. I like running around blowing up mechs.
2) Running around ONLY blowing up mechs ... is not enough in the long run.
3) MWO is an online game ... balance will NEVER be perfect ... the game will ALWAYS be changing as new features are added.
4) The game is MORE fun BECAUSE things change. It makes things a little more interesting even if it pushes people out of their comfort zone or makes their most effective builds less effective.
5) Just like MWO is not perfect, PGI is not perfect. Take ECM ... there are currently discussions on how to change ECM to be more fun in the game ... BUT PGI has not even weighed in with any documentation on WHY they built ECM the way they did in the first place. What went into that design decision? In order to come up with better suggestions it SURE would be USEFUL to have input from the folks who made the decisions in the first place.

Anyway, a council could help PGI prioritize development activities and perhaps identify features that they had not thought of or which could use revision ... and as a sounding board of at least part of the community it would be much better than the current status quo.

[UnsafePilot]

The council could only be a step in the right direction. Shouting it down because it isn't perfect doesn't get anyone any closer to being heard.

[El Bandito]

N0MAD, on 15 September 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

And here is the typical Forumites response to people who have a different opinion. this is the type of person who is going to have input, i can see it working real well.

You are going to defend someone who had openly admitted to troll anything the community comes up with, and who wants to see this game to fail? **** off too then.

Horusv2, on 15 September 2014 - 04:23 AM, said:

I m having fun with this game.

So maybe you should stop playing?

Says the guy who said PGI should get out of this business. You are fooling no one, troll.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 September 2014 - 05:00 AM.

[Logan Hawke]

Come back in the morning and this thread is still full of laughs. Thank god it's just the same ten people posting over and over how they don't want any sort of representation because they're dumb enough to think that the council is going to be making up their own **** and present it to PGI on their own.

It's not like we need an 80%ish majority vote to even present something to PGI, right? No they can totally just fling whatever they want and PGI will listen. Totally. I'm not making this this up. I am making this **** up. It's just a totally terrible idea to have a way to present ideas to the Devs without making them wade through threads like this one to find the gems that pop up now and then.

Edited by Logan Hawke, 15 September 2014 - 04:58 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Logan Hawke, on 15 September 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

Come back in the morning and this thread is still full of laughs. Thank god it's just the same ten people posting over and over how they don't want any sort of representation because they're dumb enough to think that the council is going to be making up their own **** and present it to PGI on their own.

It's not like we need an 80%ish majority vote to even present something to PGI, right? No they can totally just fling whatever they want and PGI will listen. Totally. I'm not making this this up. I am making this **** up. It's just a totally terrible idea to have a way to present ideas to the Devs without making them wade through threads like this one to find the gems that pop up now and then.

Hey I am a new face to this thread as of this morning.

[NextGame]

Hagoromo Gitsune, on 14 September 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Seriously, I had very huge doubts that MWO in Players Council hands not gonna turn into unbalanced rubbish. Also there is serious doubts that Players Council not gonna change into a POP-star X-Factor alike contest where the elected councilors will turn the game balance issues for personal goods and a bunch of a Forum-FanGils will not make lobby which will affect fraction in the game.

They are so untrusted that better PGI'll screw some bits of game play than some little procent of a players get undeserved advantage.

VOTE AGAINST PLAYERS COUNCIL... STAY SAFE!

I agree, player councils don't work

source: tribes ascend.

Even worse over here as they will end up being the most popular vocal forum users rather than people who play competitively.

The approach should be: when implementing a mechanic, create a focus group thread. Review and address feedback revising original mechanic where appropriate in same thread before developing feature (rather than just developing original idea anyway and ignoring feedback). Simples.

edit: removed some probably imflammatory wording.

Edited by NextGame, 15 September 2014 - 05:11 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

NextGame, on 15 September 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

I agree, player councils don't work

source: tribes ascend.

Even worse over here as they will end up being the most popular forum loudmouths rather than people who play competitively.

The approach should be: when implementing a mechanic, create a focus group thread. Review and address feedback revising original mechanic where appropriate in same thread before developing feature (rather than just developing original idea anyway and ignoring feedback). Simples.

Recommendation Committee

• Research and recommendations: committees are often formed to do research and make recommendations on a potential or planned project or change. For example, an organization considering a major capital investment might create a temporary working committee of several people to review options and make recommendations to upper management or the Board of Directors. Such committees are typically dissolved after issuing recommendations (often in the form of a final report).
  

Focus Group:

A focus group is a form of qualitative research in which a group of people are asked about their perceptions, opinions, beliefs, and attitudes towards a product, service, concept, advertisement, idea, or packaging.
Both look like small groups of people who help the idea making process

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 September 2014 - 05:24 AM.

[N0MAD]

NextGame, on 15 September 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

I agree, player councils don't work

source: tribes ascend.

Even worse over here as they will end up being the most popular vocal forum users rather than people who play competitively.

The approach should be: when implementing a mechanic, create a focus group thread. Review and address feedback revising original mechanic where appropriate in same thread before developing feature (rather than just developing original idea anyway and ignoring feedback). Simples.

edit: removed some probably imflammatory wording.

Now this would be sensible, but hey lets not take the sensible action, how is this going to make the forumites feel special/important?.
I mean for PGI to Start a Forum thread entitled "How to fix ECM" then take suggestions and actively participate is just a terrible idea.
I mean participating in direct conversation on a particlar subject and taking action that way just wont work.

[Logan Hawke]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 September 2014 - 04:59 AM, said:

Hey I am a new face to this thread as of this morning.

Hush you, you're not vehemently against representation

[Joseph Mallan]

N0MAD, on 15 September 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

Now this would be sensible, but hey lets not take the sensible action, how is this going to make the forumites feel special/important?.
I mean for PGI to Start a Forum thread entitled "How to fix ECM" then take suggestions and actively participate is just a terrible idea.
I mean participating in direct conversation on a particlar subject and taking action that way just wont work.

His suggestion is to form a Focus group. Or PGI selecting a small group of players and discuss how they feel about X,Y,Z. That isn't a thread on the forum. It's an Email or PM request.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 September 2014 - 05:32 AM.

[KharnZor]

Let it happen, see where it leads

[N0MAD]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 September 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

His suggestion is to form a Focus group. Or PGI selecting a small group of players and discuss how they feel about X,Y,Z. That isn't a thread on the forum. It's an Email or PM request.

I take it to mean a Focus group Thread,Thread being the operative word with focus group meaning interested parties, but ohh well.
Anything that excludes the the whole of the population, isnt a good idea.

[Lala Satalin Deviluke]

EgoSlayer, on 14 September 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

Can't believe your seriously asking this, but here is the answer:
Short Answer: No

Long Answer: PGI is the one one who implements changes and are 100% responsible for all game changes. How many times have they refunded players for their weapon/module/mech balance changes?

Bront, on 14 September 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

Are you asking if you can get a refund if the council makes a decision you disagree with?

If PGI made a decision you disagreed with, you couldn't, so why would the council be any different?

The council would be a volunteer basis with no monetary incentive from PGI or other players.

So, if Council makes a solution which affects badly at least 30-50% players and they'll not be resposible... WHAT FOR WE NEED COUNCIL IF WE GOT SO IRRESPONSIBLE PGI!? Sence, where are you?

[Joseph Mallan]

N0MAD, on 15 September 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

I take it to mean a Focus group Thread,Thread being the operative word with focus group meaning interested parties, but ohh well.
Anything that excludes the the whole of the population, isnt a good idea.

Then that isn't a Focus Group. a Focus group is a SMALL group of people, selected to give their opinion. I have seen Groups, Committees et al do some pretty grand things where I work over the last 21 years. So I have to disagree with your assessment of what is happening. And the group/Committee/board would be the schmucks taking all the Population's suggestions, organizing them and tackling them from best to worst.

Of haven't you ever participated in EI before?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 September 2014 - 05:54 AM.

[Verdic Mckenna]

Grand Council represent! I agree with N0MAD on some level. As great as it is that people think they have the answer to every problem, I see a ton of ego as well. I don't like the fact that Russ said something off the cuff and people embraced it because they think they have what it takes to be a developer. If you have what it takes please put in your job application to Pirahna Games and leave the decision making to the people who have to hear the criticisms 24/7.

The Player Council will become PGI's fast pipe for answers rather than combing through the forums. This happens every time there is a Player Council in a game. It's easier than focusing on the forum boards because no one wants to comb through bile and vitriol seven days a week. I might not be able to stop this Council - but it will be squarely on those with big enough ego's to think they belong on it that they destroyed the game if this goes poorly. Sleep with that at night when you're thinking of angering half a million people.

N0MAD, on 15 September 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

I take it to mean a Focus group Thread,Thread being the operative word with focus group meaning interested parties, but ohh well.
Anything that excludes the the whole of the population, isnt a good idea.

[Bigbacon]

I totally vote AGAINST having a council of players.

those that get into the council will then be deciding all the changes regardless of what the rest of us say...it happens every where like this.

And who gets into the council? the few competitive/elite players that then ruin and change everything for the rest of us because of their status?

no....bad idea and very bad move. PGI would be idiots to do this.

Edited by Bigbacon, 15 September 2014 - 05:57 AM.

[UnsafePilot]

Lala Satalin Deviluke, on 15 September 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

So, if Council makes a solution which affects badly at least 30-50% players and they'll not be resposible... WHAT FOR WE NEED COUNCIL IF WE GOT SO IRRESPONSIBLE PGI!? Sence, where are you?

We need the council to turn things like this into properly worded English that PGI and the rest of us can understand the message of.

[Lala Satalin Deviluke]

I go some idea for Council solution:

• Most of us want in Council experienced and competitive players, so why not just elect some Clan-Leaders after first results of CW? These will be competitive and experienced players. Plus give a Council a right of "veto" to put on PGI decisions if that decision/solution will not reach a positive public voting result of an average 70-80%.

UnsafePilot, on 15 September 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

We need the council to turn things like this into properly worded English that PGI and the rest of us can understand the message of.

Nope, for that reason PGI just needs a propper community English speaking manager.

Edited by Lala Satalin Deviluke, 15 September 2014 - 06:04 AM.

[Bigbacon]

Lala Satalin Deviluke, on 15 September 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

I go some idea for Council solution:

Most of us want in Council experienced and competitive players, so why not just elect some Clan-Leaders after first results of CW? These will be competitive and experienced players. Plus give a Council a right of "veto" to put on PGI decisions if that decision/solution will not reach a positive public voting result of an average 70-80%.

this is the worst solution...you can't make it up of all the elite competitive players. They will only do what is right for competition level play and not the rest of the game's players. We are already seeing that now.