98 replies to this topic

[Wyest]

Escef, on 21 September 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

MWO lets you fiddle with armor values on omnimechs. Since it uses standard plate instead of ferro armor, the Hellbringer would need about 13 tons to max out protection.

Not by that much on Clan mechs, it doesn't. Only two Clan mechs can exceed their reference armour values by more than half a ton: The Kit Fox and Summoner. Neither adds more than 2T to the reference armour values out of TRO or Sarna (or the default MWO builds, at that).

Reference armour for a Hellbringer is 8T of standard armour. 13T is 5T or 60% increase in armour available over reference. The variants listed have 8T and 10T respectively.

Frankly, I'm not expecting anything over 10T available in armour for the Hellbringer, which is why I want a source if there is anything giving the armour value as 13T for the Hellbringer.

Edited by Wyest, 21 September 2014 - 11:42 PM.

[Escef]

Wyest, on 21 September 2014 - 11:41 PM, said:

Not by that much on Clan mechs, it doesn't. Only two Clan mechs can exceed their reference armour values by more than half a ton: The Kit Fox and Summoner. Neither adds more than 2T to the reference armour values out of TRO or Sarna (or the default MWO builds, at that).

Reference armour for a Hellbringer is 8T of standard armour. 13T is 5T or 60% increase in armour available over reference. The variants listed have 8T and 10T respectively.

Frankly, I'm not expecting anything over 10T available in armour for the Hellbringer, which is why I want a source if there is anything giving the armour value as 13T for the Hellbringer.

Um, dude, you can strip ALL the armor from a clan mech if you want. That's a 100% change in armor total. You can max out the armor on a Summoner if you want to, the game won't stop you. When the dude said 13 tons of armor, he meant after customization.

I don't know where you are getting your information from. Do you even own clan mechs?

[Lily from animove]

greta working build is the Timber laser vomit Wolf:

5 CERML + 2 CLPL.

greta working SC build is the laser vomit SC

6CERML 1CERLL

bit have quite a decent cooling.

Hellbringer should also be able to go 6CERML + possibly 1 CERLL + heatsinks.

So he may also be a good laser vomit mech. Not as good as the TW, but for this it has ecm.
Also, as a quite fats ehavy it may be a good snipermech. 4 CERLL + hetsinks and ECm. Or only 3 CERLL and tc7 for more sniper range.

[Sam Slade]

Methinks this one will be a little light for a good ballistics load out. ASRMs and ERPPC/Lasers however...

[Wyest]

<Snip>

My mistake. Thankyou to Escef for explaining where I went wrong.

Edited by Wyest, 22 September 2014 - 02:53 AM.

[Escef]

Wyest, on 22 September 2014 - 01:47 AM, said:

Tell you what, tell me where the armour reference is that says a Hellbringer gets 13T / 422 points of armour.
That was my question, and nobody's answered it.

It doesn't. For the LAST TIME, the guy said 13 tons after you customize it. It's going to have the same internal structure values as any other 65 ton mech, which dictates the maximum armor value. There are no limitations in MWO on how much armor you can have on a clan mech other than the maximum. I don't know why you are fixating on the 2 ton figure.

[Sam Slade]

Methinks this one will be a little light for a good ballistics load out. ASRMs and ERPPC/Lasers however...

[Wyest]

Escef, on 22 September 2014 - 02:10 AM, said:

It's going to have the same internal structure values as any other 65 ton mech, which dictates the maximum armor value.

Thank you. Now I understand. I thought they'd limited the top end of armour on the clan mechs. My mistake.

[Reno Blade]

I had posted these infos in the wave2 thread which might be usefull:

Quote

Comparing the tonnage of all the Clan mechs, the Summoner and the Gargoyle have less tonage than the other heavy mechs and the Stormcrow.
But the SC only uses 10 DHS while the heavies and the Gargoyle use 12,13,14,15 and 16 DHS using up one ton more each 5ton-heavier tier.


Koshi 25t, 119kph, 6jj, 7.5t and 16 crits space
75% ff armor and endo

Fenris 45t, 129kph, 9.5t and 29 crits space
94% ff armor and endo

Stormcrow/Ryoken 94kph, 23t and 29 crits (22.5tons with full armor)
98% ff armor and endo
10DHS

Vulture 60t, 84kph, 28t and 38crits space (26tons with full armor)
81%ff armor and std internal
12DHS

Hellbringer/loki 65t, 84kph, 28.5t and 43 crits space (23tons with full armor)
but only 60% std armor and std internal
13DHS

Summoner/Thor 70t, 84kph, 22.5t and 35 crits space (20.5tons with full armor)
83% ff armor and std internal
14DHS

Timberwolf/MadCat 75t, 84kph, 27.5t and 31 crits space (27tons with full armor)
99% ff armor and endo
15DHS

Manowar/Gargoyle 80t, 84kph, 21.5t and 36crits space (19.5tons with full armor)
85% ff armor and std structure
16 DHS

Normalized to 16DHS and full armor these mechs have following free tonnages:
Stormcrow 16.5t
MadDog 22t
Hellbringer 20t
Summoner 18.5t
Timberwolf 26t
Gargoyle 19.5t

Ofc the Summoner with 5t for JJ has the lowest for heavy/assault, but the SC is no longer better if you consider the same amount of DHS and the Hellbringer is very close, due to 1t ECM (which most people will try to always use) leaving it with 19t pod space fully armored.

[The Great Unwashed]

Reno Blade, on 22 September 2014 - 03:11 AM, said:

Ofc the Summoner with 5t for JJ has the lowest for heavy/assault, but the SC is no longer better if you consider the same amount of DHS and the Hellbringer is very close, due to 1t ECM (which most people will try to always use) leaving it with 19t pod space fully armored.

The Hellbringer and Mad Dog are competing with the MadCat in the 3/3/3/3 system; the Stormcrow will be quite safe. The Gargoyle can keep up with the Timberwolf and could actually be useful. For example, we dropped with the Lords this weekend and they did not have any (slow) assaults with them and ours had to run hard to keep up. I wonder how the Gargoyle will fit in; it seems to be the SCR in assault form...

In any case, all new clan mechs should be really fun to play.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 22 September 2014 - 03:57 AM.

[Reno Blade]

The Great Unwashed, on 22 September 2014 - 03:38 AM, said:

The Hellbringer and Mad Dog are competing with the MadCat in the 3/3/3/3 system; the Stormcrow will be quite safe. The Gargoyle can keep up with the Timberwolf and could actually be useful. For example, we dropped with the Lords this weekend and they did not have any (slow) assaults with them and ours had to run hard to keep up. I wonder how the Gargoyle will fit in; it seems to be the SCR in assault form...

Yea it seems so.
The Dog will likely be a very good and fast missile mech for 6x ASRM6 together with a 4xASRM6 Timber.
The Hellbringer and Summoner will be very close, but the Summoner uses JJ, where the Hellbringer can use more smaller weapons (up to 7 MLaser plus 2 SRM6).

With around 20tons the Gargoyle will likely be a nice mech to use UAC20, SRM6 and 4ERML very similar to a Victor and very fast too.

[Soul Tribunal]

I wonder if you will able to Omni Pod Swap the Primes LT onto the other two Variants to give all three the ECM Option.
That would be great for the PUGS.

-ST

[Hawk819]

Soul Tribunal, on 22 September 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

I wonder if you will able to Omni Pod Swap the Primes LT onto the other two Variants to give all three the ECM Option.
That would be great for the PUGS.

-ST

Uh, nope. The Loki will have only one ECM Omnipod. Sorry.

However, it is possible to do a Missile boat with it.

ER PPC, each arm, 2 LRM 10 RT, and LRM 10 or 20 LT. Provided of course if you have the tonnage.

[Hawk819]

I can see it now! A Hellbringer with a Large Laser in the head!!

[IraqiWalker]

Soul Tribunal, on 22 September 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

I wonder if you will able to Omni Pod Swap the Primes LT onto the other two Variants to give all three the ECM Option.
That would be great for the PUGS.

-ST

With the pod system you should be able to. It's how all kit fox variants can run ECM form the C arm.

Hawk819, on 22 September 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

Uh, nope. The Loki will have only one ECM Omnipod. Sorry.

However, it is possible to do a Missile boat with it.

ER PPC, each arm, 2 LRM 10 RT, and LRM 10 or 20 LT. Provided of course if you have the tonnage.

Source?

With the pod system we have in MW:O you can switch even head pods, not just arms. Switching the ST pod should still give the ability to mount ECM on the other variants.

Just like the aforementioned kitfoxes. Or how the T-Wolves get JJs. The pod transfers the hardpoints, ECM is a hardpoint, and will transfer.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 22 September 2014 - 08:52 AM.

[Soul Tribunal]

Quote

Uh, nope. The Loki will have only one ECM Omnipod. Sorry.

However, it is possible to do a Missile boat with it.

ER PPC, each arm, 2 LRM 10 RT, and LRM 10 or 20 LT. Provided of course if you have the tonnage.

Too bad, its how I gave my KitFoxxes all their ECM gear by swapping arms.

-ST

[C A R N A G E]

A heavy with ecm is going to be huge in my book.the heavys seem to be a crowd favorite.the hellbringer can now give the DW ecm cover so the kitfoxes can move ahead instead of hanging back to provide ecm cover.
I look forward to their release.

[Asyres]

The saving graces of the Loki are going to be ECM and ample hardpoints, two things that the other Endo-less Clan heavy lacks. Being able to take a number of ERML to round out the armament is a significant perk. Of course, it could still have terrible maneuverability, or crap hitboxes, although the concept art looks good (and it looks like it'll have a nice cockpit, for however much that's worth).

Hawk819, on 22 September 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

Uh, nope. The Loki will have only one ECM Omnipod. Sorry.

Pretty sure you're wrong. I don't see why you couldn't use nothing but Prime LT pods if you wanted, like any other Clan mech.

[Bregor Edain]

Asyres, on 23 September 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

The saving graces of the Loki are going to be ECM and ample hardpoints, two things that the other Endo-less Clan heavy lacks. Being able to take a number of ERML to round out the armament is a significant perk. Of course, it could still have terrible maneuverability, or crap hitboxes, although the concept art looks good (and it looks like it'll have a nice cockpit, for however much that's worth).



Pretty sure you're wrong. I don't see why you couldn't use nothing but Prime LT pods if you wanted, like any other Clan mech.

The omnipod info is available here: https://mwomercs.com/wavetwo?p=hero

The only omnipod that has ECM is the Prime LT. Same as for the Kitfox and its right C arm

[IraqiWalker]

Bregor Edain, on 23 September 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

The omnipod info is available here: https://mwomercs.com/wavetwo?p=hero

The only omnipod that has ECM is the Prime LT. Same as for the Kitfox and its right C arm

Yeah we know. The post we're quoting was saying that only the prime would be able to have ECM. When you can in fact swap the prime ST onto the other variants to give them ECM.