71 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

If you stare at the barrels of a DireWolf you deserve to be blown to bits. If you actually move and torso twist at 400-500m+ ranges it won't even hit you with half of that alpha. And it only shoots once in 4.75-5 seconds, plenty of time to close in, flank or simply hide. It isn't any more dangerous or OP than a dual AC20 Jager or LBX-SRMs on a DDC or a bunch of UACs on same DireWolf.

[Kmieciu]

Widowmaker1981, on 17 September 2014 - 12:48 AM, said:

If clan weapons were balanced on a 1:1 ratio with IS weapons, then clan build restrictions would need to be lifted.. (hardlocked wrong size engines, heatsinks, FF/Endo upgrades, silly head flamers etc)

Thats why clan weapons are not 1:1 balanced, because they dont go on IS mechs with no restrictions.

All the hardlock system does is it creates underpowered mechs (Nova, Summoner, Adder) and overpowered ones (Timber Wolf, Stormcrow). Timber Wolf is perfect for the current meta. 2xLPL + 5xERML @25DHS. 58 Alpha@400 meter range. 89 kph. 1 Jump Jets. Hardlocking means nothing if the stock configuration is perfect.

Edited by Kmieciu, 17 September 2014 - 01:49 AM.

[Ultimax]

Kmieciu, on 17 September 2014 - 12:22 AM, said:

PS. Gauss rifle is still the best weapon IS has against the clans. Too bad the clan version is clearly better. It's 20% lighter, it should have 20% longer cooldown IMHO.

On the flipside, you never have to take heat sinks beyond your engine to fit Gauss into an IS mech.

My Firebrand has 10 heatsinks, 2x Gauss.

TBR would have min 5 extra heatsinks that become dead weight, the Warhawk would have 10 extra.

The DWF makes it work because it's theonly mech in the game that can take 2x Gauss + a bunch of weapons.

That's the DWF. That's what it does.

[Joseph Mallan]

Felio, on 16 September 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:

I'm not sure why the 30 instant pinpoint damage from the dual gauss is acceptable, let alone combining it with another 20 for a total of 50.

Even if it hits in two locations, as the PPC projectile speed nerf aimed to achieve -- 30 and 20, bam! It's too much damage. If you aren't dead already, you know you will be soon unless you play timidly enough to be useless. And it's not like this was a risky, strategic move that came at great cost. He's going to do it again in a few seconds.

Was this the plan all along? I have to assume it was, or something else would have been done when this was being looked at. The only effect was that you won't be hit with both if you are at an extreme range and currently moving about 90 degrees to the left or right of his perspective -- an exceptionally rare occurrence.

Fire more than 2 weapons in an Alpha ZERO convergence Small CoF. I am a dedicated Alpha Striker and I want to see this in game if possible.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 September 2014 - 06:11 AM.

[Gyrok]

Felio, on 16 September 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:

I'm not sure why the 30 instant pinpoint damage from the dual gauss is acceptable, let alone combining it with another 20 for a total of 50.

Even if it hits in two locations, as the PPC projectile speed nerf aimed to achieve -- 30 and 20, bam! It's too much damage. If you aren't dead already, you know you will be soon unless you play timidly enough to be useless. And it's not like this was a risky, strategic move that came at great cost. He's going to do it again in a few seconds.

Was this the plan all along? I have to assume it was, or something else would have been done when this was being looked at. The only effect was that you won't be hit with both if you are at an extreme range and currently moving about 90 degrees to the left or right of his perspective -- an exceptionally rare occurrence.

Really...?

You clearly have not driven a dire whale, and the King Crab is coming for the IS.

Meaning that will be MORE frequent going forward, so get used to it.

[Kain Demos]

I love my 2 x CGAUSS/2 x CERPPC Dire Wolf but I also love my 4 x CERLL/2 x GGAUSS just as much. I've done 5 kills 900+damage in both.

I hit mechs with both Gauss simultaneously in the CT and they survive all the time, even lights. Hell last night I did it twice to lights: a kit fox trying to snipe me ate a full salvo and lived and then a Jenner that thought I didn't see him got the same.

If you get hit by the PPCs at 700+ and you can see the guy shooting them you deserve to get hit. The Dire Whale is slow as hell and I've still avoided PPC blasts from people trying to return my sniper fire.

Edited by Kain Thul, 17 September 2014 - 07:33 AM.

[cSand]

There are repercussions to standing in front of 100 ton beast

who would have thought?

[Wrenchfarm]

I love that people still think the Direwolf's lack of mobility compensates for it's utterly insane damage in a game where most maps are the size of a shoebox and there are even fewer viable/usable paths through a map.

Just wait until they're released for cbills and suddenly they're the only assault in the game. I fully intend to make people choke on their claims of balance.

[DasaDevil]

Really, OP just needs to learn how to stay in cover and move without exposing himself to a Dire Whale.

Yes, the triple gauss / PPC Whales hurt. No, they are not invulnerable. In fact, in a brawl, they are practically useless.

Teamwork is what is necessary to overcome what is essentially a mobile turrent. It can only point in one direction.. Why would you continue to go forward into said direction when all maps offer another point of entry?

Wrenchfarm, on 17 September 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

Just wait until they're released for cbills and suddenly they're the only assault in the game. I fully intend to make people choke on their claims of balance.

God I hope so. Free kills for me.

Edited by DasaDevil, 17 September 2014 - 08:02 AM.

[Kain Demos]

Wrenchfarm, on 17 September 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

I love that people still think the Direwolf's lack of mobility compensates for it's utterly insane damage in a game where most maps are the size of a shoebox and there are even fewer viable/usable paths through a map.

Just wait until they're released for cbills and suddenly they're the only assault in the game. I fully intend to make people choke on their claims of balance.

The LRM boats would love this. Dire Wolf is their favorite target because if it gets caught in the open it is done.

[Murphy7]

Dire Wolves need a Claymore paint job, where emblazoned across their chest is "This Side Towards Enemy"

If I do not want to deal with a Dire Whale (or Fatlas for that matter) I just tell the lights where it is and let the feeding frenzy commence. (That,or watch the occasional sublimation of a light mech who gets caught in front of the DW thanks to lag, terrain, stupidity or inebriation - still good entertainment either way).

Honestly I think the Stormcrows are the scariest things in the Clan arsenal at the moment.

[Asyres]

Wrenchfarm, on 17 September 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

I love that people still think the Direwolf's lack of mobility compensates for it's utterly insane damage in a game where most maps are the size of a shoebox and there are even fewer viable/usable paths through a map.

Just wait until they're released for cbills and suddenly they're the only assault in the game. I fully intend to make people choke on their claims of balance.

It's incredibly powerful front-on, but hideously vulnerable to being flanked, because it has a massive turn radius and slow torso twist, and also because it's too slow to get out of trouble. These are often non-issues in solo queue, because flanking maneuvers are relatively rare, but I've also had games where I've been left behind to die alone.

Personally, I look forward to throngs (pods?) of whales when it comes out for cbills. I will feast upon the flesh of those who never learned proper positioning, and expect their firepower to see them through.

[Wrenchfarm]

Kain Thul, on 17 September 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

The LRM boats would love this. Dire Wolf is their favorite target because if it gets caught in the open it is done.

Opps, I found a big rock to hide behind or a friend with ECM. Please form an orderly line into my 6xUAC5 industrial mech drill, or my loLBX-60 shotgun wall, or maybe I'll just smoke you from across the map with the classic Peppers+Goose config. Or hey, let's play LRMboat vs LRMboat, I'll take an LRM60 pack and "backup" weapons that rival and IS heavies main load out.

Honestly, LRMs have feasted on large slow mechs since CB. We've all learned how to avoid them in our Atlai, what's the big difference here?

Yes, flanking, team tactics, LRMs, and such help deal with Direwolfs - but you can say the same for any assault. The difference is, when an Atlas or Stalker catches you out, he hurts you bad, he doesn't instantly remove a mech from the game. The Direwolf is crazy and only going to get worse.

[Zoid]

If your team is paying attention, the DWF is going to take a lot more than 30 damage before he can get back into cover if he fires those things.

The only thing really unfair about this relates back to a fundamental problem with the game: CampWarrior. If the DWF and friends are in a defensible position (difficult if not impossible to flank) and just camping there then it becomes a real issue that anything that shows up immediately gets 50 damage in one spot.

[DasaDevil]

Wrenchfarm, on 17 September 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

Opps, I found a big rock to hide behind or a friend with ECM. Please form an orderly line into my 6xUAC5 industrial mech drill, or my loLBX-60 shotgun wall, or maybe I'll just smoke you from across the map with the classic Peppers+Goose config. Or hey, let's play LRMboat vs LRMboat, I'll take an LRM60 pack and "backup" weapons that rival and IS heavies main load out.

Honestly, LRMs have feasted on large slow mechs since CB. We've all learned how to avoid them in our Atlai, what's the big difference here?

Yes, flanking, team tactics, LRMs, and such help deal with Direwolfs - but you can say the same for any assault. The difference is, when an Atlas or Stalker catches you out, he hurts you bad, he doesn't instantly remove a mech from the game. The Direwolf is crazy and only going to get worse.

You get caught by one of the biggest / slowest mechs in the game? I'm not sure how that is even possible if you maintain proper awareness or rambo somewhere without team support.

[Wrenchfarm]

Asyres, on 17 September 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

It's incredibly powerful front-on, but hideously vulnerable to being flanked, because it has a massive turn radius and slow torso twist, and also because it's too slow to get out of trouble. These are often non-issues in solo queue, because flanking maneuvers are relatively rare, but I've also had games where I've been left behind to die alone.

Personally, I look forward to throngs (pods?) of whales when it comes out for cbills. I will feast upon the flesh of those who never learned proper positioning, and expect their firepower to see them through.

Again, these are true statements, but also things you could say about the Atlas, Stalker, Highlander, etc. Every Assault mech has to deal with being a big slow glob (expect possibly the Awesome and Victor, but one is a notable trashmech and the other has seen harsh mobility nerfs) that could potentially get flanked or lurmed, or harassed to death by cheeky light pilots.

Only the Direwolf raises the stakes so incredibly high. Flank a Direwolf, and unless you are able to get back into cover or deal a fatal strike, you can expect a disastrous counter attack. He WILL take mechs down with him just by function of fire power. Light harassers are almost a myth at this point, the light que is the least populated weight class and the few that are using them are long range ECM sniper builds.

TTK bottoms out in the vicinity of a Direwolf. When you have a unit that forces everyone else to play perfectly and intelligently, while all it has to do is blunder about and aim and fire, you have a balance issue. It doesn't matter that you CAN take out a Direwolf (and I myself have humiliated a couple in a Com-2D) it's that the odds are so tilted to his favour, that everyone else has to work so much harder than he does.

[Asyres]

Wrenchfarm, on 17 September 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

Opps, I found a big rock to hide behind or a friend with ECM. Please form an orderly line into my 6xUAC5 industrial mech drill, or my loLBX-60 shotgun wall, or maybe I'll just smoke you from across the map with the classic Peppers+Goose config. Or hey, let's play LRMboat vs LRMboat, I'll take an LRM60 pack and "backup" weapons that rival and IS heavies main load out.

Honestly, LRMs have feasted on large slow mechs since CB. We've all learned how to avoid them in our Atlai, what's the big difference here?

Yes, flanking, team tactics, LRMs, and such help deal with Direwolfs - but you can say the same for any assault. The difference is, when an Atlas or Stalker catches you out, he hurts you bad, he doesn't instantly remove a mech from the game. The Direwolf is crazy and only going to get worse.

Go make an LRM60 DWF. I'll wait.

In the mean time, consider that the DWF is not only less maneuverable than a bone stock Atlas, it's slower and substantially less maneuverable than any Atlas that actually sees battle (due to up-engining). I can reliably stay out of the sights of a DWF while close to it in any mech that can break 100 kph. I can't do that against an Atlas.

Edited by Asyres, 17 September 2014 - 08:56 AM.

[Wrenchfarm]

DasaDevil, on 17 September 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

You get caught by one of the biggest / slowest mechs in the game? I'm not sure how that is even possible if you maintain proper awareness or rambo somewhere without team support.

Meh, whatever. This is how people always defend glaring balance issues - snide remarks that insinuate a lack of skill.

I was right about Clan vs IS tech back when people were saying it was balanced (lol, 90% win rate), I was right about the Madcat obsoleting every other heavy, and I'll be right about this when the cbill version drops. Ignore these issues if you like, I'll have my fun eventually.

[Kain Demos]

Murphy7, on 17 September 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

Dire Wolves need a Claymore paint job, where emblazoned across their chest is "This Side Towards Enemy"

If I do not want to deal with a Dire Whale (or Fatlas for that matter) I just tell the lights where it is and let the feeding frenzy commence. (That,or watch the occasional sublimation of a light mech who gets caught in front of the DW thanks to lag, terrain, stupidity or inebriation - still good entertainment either way).

Honestly I think the Stormcrows are the scariest things in the Clan arsenal at the moment.

Funny and true. Often, if I get on a good run in a Dire Wolf suddenly I have a light or two poking at my back adn then I'm sure someone is laughing at my comical movements as I keep circling in different direections trying to put my back on a wall.

I actually had an epic backstab happen to me on Tourmaline Desert the other night. I was in one of those nice little nooks and most of the figh twas going on below but I had LOS on two of their LRM boats on the other side of the valley. Well after I started scoring hits on the LRM boats forcing them to retreat I started firing down into the main melee and suddenly I was just 1 hit killed and in my death scene saw a Timberwolf behind me.

Like most I run very little rear armor but I had stil never been 1 shot killed before that.

[Gas Guzzler]

In a brawl an Atlas can stand toe to toe with a DW no problem.

Dire Wolves should drop TTK, that is the whole point. It is painfully slow, has crap torso twist and devotes over 50 tons to weapons!! Of course it is going to wreck lighter mechs that wander in front of it... I don't undertand why wlpeople worry about it so much. I still think Victors will Bethe best assaults once they get their quirks reworked. Definitely has the potential to 1v1 a DW due to its ability to spread damage and the DW's sluggishness and easy to hit CT.