136 replies to this topic

[mongo2006]

Look Russ, I've been saying for a while you can't nerf SKILL! To nerf clan mechs any further would be totally unfair to the pilots that have been playing for years. We have learned how to build and use our mechs properly, and thats why we win.

We've even adapted to your nerfs resulting in us becoming even better pilots, I bet in the data you'll find our hit rate went up as well, we are more careful with our aim. and conserving heat.

The fact IS every noob that comes to this game is a (IS) pilot, they don't know the maps, they can't properly build a mech, they don't have or use the wrong modules, they don't know where the kill zones are for each map, they won't do the one thing that gives the (IS) the clear advantage ZERG! If they would just have the heart and coordination to work together, the clans wouldn't have a chance. But that's something you learn over time.

But you would rather punish clan pilots so that people who are new to the game have an artificial advantage that negates our skill level? Trust me dude that 20% drop in win rate was 15% noobs with clan mechs and 5% Clan vets throwing the fight to avoid the NERF HAMMER. Skill and Coordination can't be nerfed Russ, we are at a tipping point where experienced pilots are going to abandon clan mechs and start piloting our (IS) mechs, or the more experienced pilots are going to leave the game. We have our noobs too that shut down every 2 shots, Dire Wolfs with 40 damage and dead, Timber Wolves with nothing but missiles and 2 medium lasers because they can't manage the heat of 3 lasers, disgusting..


TYPICAL (CLAN VS IS MATCH)


Chat: we moving right, ignore whats behind, we have missiles for that.

Chat: you got it..

Chat: Sounds good

Chat: copy

the whole group moves to the right and creates a firing line.. we wait for stragglers then we move side by side, not behind each other..

UAV goes up, the noobs have no idea what it is, I take out the DDC with missiles over any other mech, he was dumb enough to be on the front line. Clan firing line focuses anything that pops it's head up, we all have lasers so we win the firing line war 90% of the time, but they try 1/2 dead for their efforts.. We're pushing while we fire.. they start running, lights and mediums shoot them in the back, they leave their assaults to fend for them selves..they have crappy builds so I just shoot atlases in the left eye they drop like rocks, the rest we just arti to death (IS) noobs are too cheap for arties and air strikes. Missiles are on anything with missiles, AMS or ECM driven away from the rest of them they are now completely exposed. they have nothing left to stop the missiles or firing line, but can't fight because the firing line is moving on them, missiles are dropping on them, the firing line has them locked.. they run and die. All the rest are dead, we're just looking for a shut down Raven.. Boom we win...

Chat (IS): clan mechs are OP

Chat (IS): clan pilots are missile noobs that's why they won.. no honor..

Chat: STFU and learn to fight


If they had just turned and went after the Clan firing line they would find that 50% of clan mechs would be shut down because of heat at any given time, they don't know or don't have the leadership and heart to mix it up, to do what their mechs are designed to do. that's why they lose. The Lords are one of the few groups I've seen fight clan mechs the way they should be fought, and they win 80% of the time.


I don't think it's fair that Clan pilots have to pay for (IS) lack of piloting skill or tactics, leave the mechs alone and teach the (IS) how to properly fight them.

[Monkey Lover]

Soon as they get all the clan pack money they can they're going to nerf them into the ground. This will allow them to sell both clan and IS mechs to the suckers.

Edited by Mal, 17 September 2014 - 08:13 PM.
Removed insult

[Darian DelFord]

As much as I hate to say it, it does take a bit of skill to play the new clan (Post nerf) mechs. Heat is definitely a facotr now compared to my IS mechs. The OP does have a point, you can not base changes off of the mid range ELO. Hell how many times have veterans been pugging and do 800+ points of damage while the rest of the team can barely hit 200.

It still F'ing amazes me that new players start in the middle of the ELO scale. I really do not understand the thought process behind it. Let them start at the bottom and work their way up based on their own skills and the skills of their teammates. The ones that get it will improve.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 17 September 2014 - 11:33 AM.

[MerryIguana]

We are more skilled! The cry of every player in every multiplayer ive ever played defending their ingame advantage.

[Snowseth]

There must be some nerfs! Specifically, the ST-loss 'nerf' for C-XL engines.
I think that 'nerf' alone would be exactly what is needed.
Hell, there may need to be a round of Clan un-nerfs following it, depending on how devastating it that ST-loss is (loss of speed, extra heat, loss of engine heat sinks [remember engine DHS are 2.0 not 1.4], etc).

Edited by Snowseth, 17 September 2014 - 11:41 AM.

[Eglar]

[Andross Deverow]

mongo2006, on 17 September 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Look Russ, I've been saying for a while you can't nerf SKILL! To nerf clan mechs any further would be totally unfair to the pilots that have been playing for years. We have learned how to build and use our mechs properly, and thats why we win.

Jesus.... Stroke that e-p33n much? LOL! Gawd...

Regards

[Piney II]

I predict a very short life for this thread.

[BARBAR0SSA]

You would have been better off pushing for Clan Trial mechs so people can play them and then learn.
Perhaps then PGI could compare a players clan stats vs IS stats to see if they were a marginal IS pilot but amazing in Clan.

I mean I had a 5:1 KDR ration in my TWs prior to nerfs and haven't played since nerfs. I did have some IS mechs around 3 - 3.5 though. Eg. Embers, Jagers, etc. But TW for sure made me more powerful, honestly if they would have just done a TW quirk that made it generate more heat with energy weps, it probably could have stopped the whole ER ML heat change, and then just drop the ERLL range down. Ta da

Edited by shad0w4life, 17 September 2014 - 11:49 AM.

[Livewyr]

I think the ST destruction penalty will probably line it up fairly well. (might even need to undo some of the weapon nerfs)

Clan XL is about the most overpowered thing about them. Bring that in line, and it will probably be done.

[Green Mamba]

Since "US" IS Pilots suck so bad we need all the advantages we can Get ..HAHA

[damonwolf]

Quote

There must be some nerfs! Specifically, the ST-loss 'nerf' for C-XL engines.

Sorry, but this is a ridiculous suggestion. You DO realize that Clan Mechs are stuck with one engine (XL), and CAN'T equip Standard ones? So, if I interpreted your suggestion correctly, you're basically suggesting that IS Mechs have the clear advantage in engines over Clan mechs...

[Russ Bullock]

You guys have already been told the plan - I am still hoping to not touch their weapons again.

- IS Quirks

and at the least fix what I consider a bug when a clan mech has there Side Torso destroyed yet they keep 100% of their Engine heat sinks. At the least we need to fix that with their ST destruction.

These items and I hope were there

In short Clan players - smile life is good

[Sandpit]

Snowseth, on 17 September 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

There must be some nerfs! Specifically, the ST-loss 'nerf' for C-XL engines.
I think that 'nerf' alone would be exactly what is needed.
Hell, there may need to be a round of Clan un-nerfs following it, depending on how devastating it that ST-loss is (loss of speed, extra heat, loss of engine heat sinks [remember engine DHS are 2.0 not 1.4], etc).

one of the ideas being floated is an increase in heat production with the loss of an ST for clan mechs. At the very least the loss of heat sinks contained in that particular ST engine slot. Losing 2-3 internal heat sinks per side torso would be a good way to balance them. I don't think the weapons are the issue personally

EDIT:

Dammit! See? That's the downside to dev participation on the forums. You think you have good insight, post it and get ninja'd by the dam prez lol

Edited by Sandpit, 17 September 2014 - 11:56 AM.

[Moonlander]

Yeah... IS pilots are terrible and Clan pilots are amazing.

[Bilbo]

damonwolf, on 17 September 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

Sorry, but this is a ridiculous suggestion. You DO realize that Clan Mechs are stuck with one engine (XL), and CAN'T equip Standard ones? So, if I interpreted your suggestion correctly, you're basically suggesting that IS Mechs have the clear advantage in engines over Clan mechs...

How so. If the IS mech equips an XL it gives up survivability(it's dead rather hotter and slower). If the IS mech takes a STD engine, it is either slower, hotter or has less firepower(sometimes all three).

[DasaDevil]

In that respect, outside of a very specific build of ERPPC + Gauss on the timberwolf, losing an ST also means losing 30-50% of your weapon systems in your battlemech. Is losing a few heat sinks going to really change anything?

[Russ Bullock]

Sandpit, on 17 September 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

one of the ideas being floated is an increase in heat production with the loss of an ST for clan mechs. At the very least the loss of heat sinks contained in that particular ST engine slot. Losing 2-3 internal heat sinks per side torso would be a good way to balance them. I don't think the weapons are the issue personally

EDIT:

Dammit! See? That's the downside to dev participation on the forums. You think you have good insight, post it and get ninja'd by the dam prez lol

Yes Clanners I think we can at least agree on that being a bug and needing fixed...then I think I can get the rest of the way with the IS changes.

Clans are still very different with their technology and more powerful in many settings BUT we hopefully have a very competitive CW

Remember:

IS Mech runs XL and loses a ST they die

Clan Mech loses ST they Live and are still fairly deadly.

Fixing it so they actually lose some Engine heat sinks at the least seems very reasonable

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Higher DPS output due to 2 slot 1 ton c-DHS with XL engines that don't kill you when one side is destroyed = skill? Known fact: IS mechs are inferior in DPS, speed and survivability. Nothing to do with skill.

[Livewyr]

Russ Bullock, on 17 September 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Yes Clanners I think we can at least agree on that being a bug and needing fixed...then I think I can get the rest of the way with the IS changes.

Clans are still very different with their technology and more powerful in many settings BUT we hopefully have a very competitive CW

ST destruction penalties are the way to go.